Chad.

Local-womanizer

Some nice pics from chad on the BBC website.Thought you all might be intrested?



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/08/africa_keeping_peace_in_eastern_chad/html/1.stm

Steyr

Thank you.

Local-womanizer

Was happy to see some media take some sort of intrest in the soldiers over there as our own media seems to have forgot we even have an army........

Morpheus

Lads arent wearing watches on the patrol :P

arybvtcw0eolkf

Morphéus wrote: »

Lads arent wearing watches on the patrol :P

I always wore my watch elsewhere on my uniform, even sun tans don't ya know

Local-womanizer

Morphéus wrote: »

Lads arent wearing watches on the patrol :P

Nowadays its everybody synchronize your mobile phones:p:D

iceage

Its a killer to an all over tan don't you know.

Zuiderzee

Thanks for the photos link.

Only 350 troops? Is it the Chadean or Irish Govt. that stops more being deployed?
Such a tragic, urgent situation.

I think they should send out more troops and probably some helo's which would be a great asset in such a large area with so few troops.

Poccington

Zuiderzee wrote: »

Thanks for the photos link.

Only 350 troops? Is it the Chadean or Irish Govt. that stops more being deployed?
Such a tragic, urgent situation.

I think they should send out more troops and probably some helo's which would be a great asset in such a large area with so few troops.

The Government only allows a set number of troops Overseas at any one time, it's around the 850 personnel mark I think.

So between Kosovo, Chad and the troops we have in other spots around the world we're close to the limit, which is why more can't be sent to Chad.

Zuiderzee

Thanks for clearing that up - I guess there is a minimum that must be kept on the Island for various contingencies, but surely there can be an increase in that - with the peace process, Kosovo seeming to have calmed down etc. and there is an urgent need for help in Chad.
850 - that would be near 10% of the PDF would it?

OS119

Zuiderzee wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up - I guess there is a minimum that must be kept on the Island for various contingencies, but surely there can be an increase in that - with the peace process, Kosovo seeming to have calmed down etc. and there is an urgent need for help in Chad.
850 - that would be near 10% of the PDF would it?

the 850 limit is a political device to ensure that the Irish Army doesn't go anywhere dangerous - it's accepted doctrine within pretty much all western armies that the smallest self-supporting unit that can safely and effectively operate within a medium or high-intensity conflict is a Battalion-based Battlegroup (a 650 man infantry Bn, a 120 man, 6 Gun Artillery Battery, a Logistics Sqn, an Armoured (or heavy Mechanized) Sqn, an Engineer Sqn and a Signals troop - all told about 1300 men.

knowing this, and knowing that everyone else knows this, the Irish are able to volunteer forces in UN/EU/NATO operations in unsafe locations safe in the knowledge that their kind offer will be turned down by the lead nations on the OP because those lead nations won't be interested in making up the shortfall between what the Irish will send and what can exist and operate in such an environment - effectively the Irish might send some infantry and someone else will have to dig up some artillery, engineers, armour, logistics, air mobility and CAS, medical support and signals. which they aren't going to do because of the nightmare of integrating different armies at sub-unit level.

there are no reasons whatsoever to keep 7,500 troops in Ireland at any one time - you might want an anti-terrorism group from the ARW, a bomb dispsal unit, and a contingency for civil emergencies like flooding or whatever, but the idea that the state needs 7,500 troops at home - and to be honest could actually utilise that number - is just fairy story stuff.

Hard Larry

OS119 wrote: »

the 850 limit is a political device to ensure that the Irish Army doesn't go anywhere dangerous

I don't claim to be an expert on International Affairs but when a 10000 strong International Peace-Enforcement Mission shows up on a countries doorstep things tend not to remain "dangerous" for very long.

Now when a strong International Peace-Enforcement Mission turns up on the doorstep of a bunch of Muslim Fanatics looking to pick a fight...well thats a different story already being discussed in another thread.

If the Irish Army has approx 850 troops Overseas then they also have 850 troops in training so they can relieve the troops Overseas, and then you also have 850 troops who have returned from Overseas. So at any given time you've got 2550 troops rotating on Overseas Service. This is just a rough figure as the troops returning from a mission could more than likely find themselves amongst the troops waiting to go Overseas.

Considering the Irish Army has (rough guess here off the noggin) around 10/11 Infantry Battalions which aren't full strength and at least 4 Artillery Regiments (again a rough guess and these lads aren't at full strength either) and a couple of Cav Squadrons to boot. Pour on top of this Security Duties within the state, not a bad effort for a small nation during Peace-time.

If "everyone else knows" that we aren't pulling our weight then how come they aren't up in arms in the UNSC or in Europe? Why don't the US and UK or whoever call our bluff and donate us military equipment to do the job? The kit intergration wouldn't be an issue as long as the manual is in English. But I'm sure the great nations of this planet have more on there plate than the parameters that this country has in place for our Defence Forces.

Another reason for our lack of numbers Overseas is contracts. Now I don't want to get bogged down on contracts and the like but a good percentage of the Army/NS/AC is on an old contract that exempts them from being detailed from Overseas Service because some Solicitor questioned the wording of the contrat and legally these troops can't be sent Overseas.

Things are changing though as our newly contracted soldiers can be sent anywhere the Govt. damn well pleases. So for those of you who are demanding that the blood of Irish soldiers pay for the free ride of "Neutrality" we have had for the last few decades this can only be a good thing.

Now last time I checked the Republic of Ireland was not at a state of war (or Emergency) why we should deploy a 7500 strong force of troops anywhere in the world is beyond me. Their wages alone would cripple the economy.

As for "dangerous" places, anyone who has ever driven or been a passenger in a vehicle on the roads of Kosovo will testify to how "dangerous" that kip is.

Anyone who ever served slightly North or on (and sometimes in) the ICA (Israeli Controlled Area) in South Lebanon will also testify to "dangerous" activities. Although if you do have the misfortune of getting your ear bended by a Leb Vet they will try play this "danger" down and tell you stories of smuggling beer back to posts etc.

Our small contribution was also snapped up when we offered to send a platoon sized unit to East Timor to patrol the jungles. There was no complaints of the size of that force AFAIR.

Should we withdraw the staff we currently have in ISAF as the contribution is too small compared to other nations?

Now I'm sure my comparisons seem like piffle to those personnel who patrol Helmand Province or Route Irish, but for those of you here on these boards who think that Ireland doesn't send its soldiers to "dangerous" places I can put you in touch with 850+ plus wives/girlfriends/boyfriends/husbands/parents who aren't really concerned about the level of danger where their loved one is...just that they're too close to danger for comfort.

Thank you, goodnight, much love.

Zuiderzee

Excellent point on the rotation numbers Larry, I never even considered it.
Typical Merchant Navy mentality - Blue crew/gold crew - time on/time off

I think OS119 has a bit of a point, but its more likley a financial rather than political one.

Having 1300 available for deployment would mean a rotation number of nearly 4000 - thats nealy half the PDF as far as I can tell.
Just for clarification - how many people are in the PDF - 9000/10000 ?
The disruption caused by that would be massive.

On the contracts cant they just re-issue new contracts with time to go given the consent of PDFORRA or the individuals involved?

East Timor is a bit of a sad one for me, two lads I knew went out, one came back alive, the other did not.

iceage

The most sensible post in here for ages Hard Larry... Iceage doffs hat in that mans direction.

Fishtits

OS, you are either a junior academic, or a naive Lt.

Either way, your post is drivel.

Fishtits.

...The short straw puller who has spent the last 10 yrs in every sh*thole/warzone/natural disaster area to hit the news.

PPS, add in a decade or so in our Defence Forces. :rolleyes:

Gunny Hartman

Hard Larry wrote: »

As for "dangerous" places, anyone who has ever driven or been a passenger in a vehicle on the roads of Kosovo will testify to how "dangerous" that kip is.

Yeah horrible when you are going to Bondsteel to get some Tacobell!

Other than that very good post much respect Larry.