Riots in Greece

silverharp

I have not followed the story but the news items say that it is because of a teenager shot by the police, I'm guessing there is more to this and has more to do with a change in public mood due to the economic crises? too speculative?

Manic Moran

Not really.

There is a very strong anarchist movement in Greece, and conflicts between riot police and anarchists are common. They just usually don't result in shooting.

Greek politics are fairly polarised, it's effectively a two-party system. The current government are more to the right than the opposition, and the left is viewing this as an opportunity to turf the government out of power, it's feeding the flames a bit more than it otherwise would. For example, the unions are planning a strike for tomorrow, and are refusing to postpone it: They're kicking the PM while he's down.

The exact circumstances behind the shooting are still unclear. Police say that the victim was in the process of lobbing a petrol bomb at the officers, which would be a justifiable shooting, yet they have also arrested and charged both the officer in question and his partner. More information is obviously required.

NTM

mike65

4 days now which suggets the whole thing is now in the control of professional, political aggitators.

/heads to indymedia to get the inside track

gurramok

Amazing going ons in that country. The TV reports say the last serious rioting in the 80s that was a result of a similar shooting incident had riots every day for months in every city and looks its heading that way again.

I don't think any other western country had riots that long in the modern era, think France had only 10 days!

And to cap it all, did you see the teachers/lecturers out protesting alongside the anarchist types against the riot police, now i've never seen that before!

It seems the establishment are treading carefully because of sensitivities from the polytechnic massacre in the 70's. They cannot send out troops nor seriously crack down on protests as society is polarised over the issue, their hands are tied.

I reckon when public opinion gets fed up of the disorder, that's when the authorities could get a hold of the problem.

eoin5

Manic Moran wrote: »

The exact circumstances behind the shooting are still unclear. Police say that the victim was in the process of lobbing a petrol bomb at the officers, which would be a justifiable shooting, yet they have also arrested and charged both the officer in question and his partner. More information is obviously required.

NTM

Definitely, if the kid really was in the process of lobbing a petrol bomb wouldnt it have exploded? I havent heard anything about that!

Gordon

I was in Greece when this happened and the news reports at the time stated that the policeman and two other policemen were approached by this anarchist throwing sticks and stones at them. Upon retreating the policeman fired three warning shots - two at the ground and one in the air (or vice versa). Why a policeman would shoot a warning shot at the ground - I have no idea. This is why it was claimed that the kill was by a ricochet, and the post mortem will prove this apparently. Post mortem also being carried out independently. Incidentally these were (reported at the time) undercover police. Whether this is true or not, I haven't read.

One of the reasons that this is as bad as it is is due to corruption. Everyone has a story of corrupt police. A friend of mine was beaten up in the office of the chief of police for a certain area by his bodyguard. This was because the chief was driving up a one way road the wrong way and my mate was driving down. As the C.O.P was off duty, in civilian clothes my mate was giving out to him telling him to bugger off and get out of his way. The chief was visibly drunk and proceeded to pull out his ID and hauled my mate and female friend off to the station.

Corruption throughout the beaurocratic system and low wages (minimum wage hasn't changed in a decade or more) mixed with high and rising prices of fuel and shopping has been a major factor in all of this imo.

Freddy Krueger

I hope people will understand what's going on. The country is going to the dogs. Drug dealing in open air, the unemployment is so high, scumbags destroy the cities, all those make me feel ashamed to be from Greece. And here comes the worst. Why the government invites immigrants Albanians and **** when 1 in 5 people live below poverty line?

Riots in Greece: Left winged bull****ers, in support with **** and anarchists scumbags set everything on fire. Shops and business wrecking down the country leading it to the total bankruptcy. It's not the first time that happens something like that. The same idiots set fire in the polytechnic university a few years before. They burnt it down to the ground. Millions of Euro lost.

I am not against immigration in total. Ireland has welcomed me so I do the same to every Irish person. Everyone from Germany, Denmark, Ireland... is welcomed in Greece and everywhere. But why do we have to welcome east Europeans to send the money back home leeching our countries to death, why do we have to allow Pakis and ****? I am Atheist but If I go in Saudi Arabia and I will start to do the same as here in Europe, how they will treat me?

Immigration ruins Greece, Europe dies, we all gotta do something to stop the non whites invading in OUR lands, destroying OUR culture. Greece used to be one of the safest countries of Europe just like Ireland and Scotland and Denmark. How it changed so fast? Where is Alexander the Great to split the head of every Muslim and clean up Europe from the non white junks? Do you remember Paris? Now it's gonna be the same... No I don't support the murder of the young teenager, but the policeman and the family of the unfortunate boy can sort it out in the court. Throwing bombs is not a solution. That doesn't happen in a civilized country. I don't understand why this stupid government doesn't really allow the police to shoot every gang "protester". They are parasites

EUROPE IS FOR EUROPEANS, ASIA FOR ASIANS, AFRICA FOR AFRICANS.

Freddy Krueger

And thanks to the forum for the CENSORSHIP

mike65

Ah Freddie you let us all down with that mentality.

Hagar

Freddy Krueger wrote: »

EUROPE IS FOR EUROPEANS, ASIA FOR ASIANS, AFRICA FOR AFRICANS.

And of course AMERICA IS FOR AMERICANS.
There won't be room to swing a cat in Europe when all the emmigrants and their descendants come back from the USA.

oscarBravo

Can we keep this on topic?

kthxbye

Dudess

Freddy Krueger wrote: »

I am not against immigration in total. Ireland has welcomed me

Well then don't you think you're being a tad hypocritical?

Freddy Krueger

Dudess wrote: »

Well then don't you think you're being a tad hypocritical?

Would you like me to send you 500.000 Albanians in Cork? The most of them criminals and xprisoners from Hotza season, leeching your history and your economy? It's a privilege that you don't have them here, that's why life is still ok...

I have no axe for Irish, Germans, French or whatever it is... What do you say about the Muslims who pray night and day and wish to destroy Europe? Of course not all of them but go and see what happens in the mass immigration areas of UK. You are very lucky here...

Where did you see Italians or Spanish or other Europeans to take over other European countries? See how we have been progressed... but other no..

seamus

Immigration only becomes an issue when people fail to integrate. Europeans and Americans appear like fine immigrants because they and the native population will intermix freely. For other ethnicities and races, notably Muslim and African immigrants, there are barriers on both sides to this integration - mainly to do with ingrained prejudices (from the immigrants and the natives) and the notions of tradition or belief.
The furore last year over one of the shopping centres having a black Santa Claus is the perfect example. The only reason anyone gave for it being a bad idea was because it wasn't traditional.

As for Greece, well it's always been a bit of an oddball. The absentee son of the EU family who we know is always doing something odd, but so long as he comes home for Christmas and rings us every so often, we're happy.

As Gordon points out, corruption is rife in Greece in both business and government. We think we have it bad for inefficiency, nepotism and laziness in our public sector, but if you haven't seen Greece, you haven't seen anything.

From what I gather, there's a strong "anarchist" movement in Greece, mainly centered around the universities. I use the quotes because rioting in the name of anarchism is about the biggest thing you can do to prove that you have no idea what your cause actually means. Most countries tend to have some sort of "tension" between the idealogical up-and-comers in the universities and the traditional constraints of society (in the form of the police), but the conditions in Greece mean that this tension is constant and is very real - you have people pushed towards an anti-enforcement cause such as anarchism by an openly corrupt and dangerous police force.

P. Breathnach

I think Freddy Krueger is explaining the problems in Greece rather better than he intends. He indicates that there is a deep rift in Greek society, of which he is a part.

Freddy Krueger

seamus wrote: »

but if you haven't seen Greece, you haven't seen anything.

I am from Greece.

As far immigration yes Albanians failed to integrate and the rest of East workers who come in a country only for one reason, to work hard and send their money back home. If this is not an invasion then what is it? No culture, no music, no lifestyle, no capacity for friends and meetings...

Back to the riots, east workers immigrants wrecked down gun-stores and got guns and axes. Check it out on bbc or www.ert.gr We expect the worse... Is this integration? O don't think so...

Dudess

Freddy Krueger wrote: »

Would you like me to send you 500.000 Albanians in Cork?

Are there really half a million Albanian immigrants in Greece?

I have no axe for Irish, Germans, French or whatever it is... What do you say about the Muslims who pray night and day and wish to destroy Europe?

I say they're fanatics but...

not all of them

There you go.

but go and see what happens in the mass immigration areas of UK. You are very lucky here...

Those areas are poor, poverty causes some people to do sh1tty things - their race isn't the problem, it's their circumstances.

I understand if you feel mass immigration is going to cause problems but your use of words like "n*g*er" indicates you blame the race/ethnicity rather than the individual.

SeanW

Freddy, you're giving those of us who have a conservative view of immigration a bad name by degenerating into blatant racism.
For example, I've read about how immigration from places like Turkey, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia etc has resulted in large communities of people who hate their adopted country and have no affiliation with it (despite being citizens) and violently oppose integration into Western society. Do I think it's a good idea to allow large numbers of people like this into our societies? No, because as Germany etc has proven, it's a total mistake to do so.

But do I hate these people? No, hatred is a pointless and futile emotion, I consider them more misguided than anything else, hence even though I take a dim view of that culture, and I say this without calling the peope involved racist names etc.

gurramok

I think whats missing here is that Greeks have had histrorically bad relations with the Albanians.
Anyway, whats the immigration got to do with the riots??

Wasn't it a Greek lad that died, not an Albanian?

Gordon

Freddy Krueger wrote: »

I am from Greece.

So you know that Albanians and Polish and Phillipinos, to name a few, are all employed by Greek people and Greek businesses to do manual labour and semi-professional work. If Greece doesn't want Albanians etc in their country then they don't seem to be doing a good job stopping them by giving them jobs. Jobs that Greek people don't want because they want to sit around smoking rollups and drinking Frappés all day while doing side jobs and not handing out receipts for them.

I remember when there was a furore in Greece about Chinese imports as Greece shouldn't be importing from China (or Greeks shouldn't be buying Chinese) as it was harming the economy. Now that the pinch from Alfa Vita supermarkets raising their prices, and the duopoly of the energy companies raising their prices is happening - Greeks are welcoming the cheaper Chinese imports. And the cheap labour.

mike65

To think democracy and philosophy were invented by Greeks. Okay so was man/boy love but we won't go there.

Hellm0

mike65 wrote: »

To think democracy and philosophy were invented by Greeks. Okay so was man/boy love but we won't go there.

And Algebra was discovered by the Babylonians in what is now southern Iraq. Societies change man:P

lostexpectation

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20081212/twl-anti-police-riots-continue-in-greece-41f21e0.html
Police sources said they have begun to run out of teargas after using more than 4,600 capsules in the last week and have urgently contacted Israel and Germany to replenish supplies.

ah germany and israel finnally brought together with chemical weapons

silverharp

lostexpectation wrote: »

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20081212/twl-anti-police-riots-continue-in-greece-41f21e0.html
Police sources said they have begun to run out of teargas after using more than 4,600 capsules in the last week and have urgently contacted Israel and Germany to replenish supplies.

ah germany and israel finnally brought together with chemical weapons

geez, there no shortage of irony these days!

Gordon

Have the post mortems been concluded yet?

Freddy Krueger

Gordon wrote: »

Jobs that Greek people don't want because they want to sit around smoking rollups and drinking Frappés all day while doing side jobs and not handing out receipts for them.

Dis you understand what you said stupid ****? Go back to Asia and leave Europe to the true Europeans. Looser

Freddy Krueger

Dudess wrote: »

Are there really half a million Albanian immigrants in Greece?

Greece used to be the safest country of Europe. It has changed dramatically due to the mass immigration? Does this reminds you something?... about Dublin...

There are more than half a million Albanians, cause think about the illegals...

Why do I use the word niger... Let me tell ya something, If a black person wants to use that word is an not an offense, if a white yes it is... why?

More than the half of the world is racist. Why you don't go to promote multiculturalism in middle East? Did you know the people in these countries don't want no natives in their land.

We must stay united towards mass immigration. Immigration should be limited only within the EU. Illegals out...

Back to riots, anarchists are in a great connection with immigrants. What can stop this mess... mass arrests and shooting the violent hooligans...

Freddy Krueger

Hellm0 wrote: »

And Algebra was discovered by the Babylonians in what is now southern Iraq. Societies change man:P

Read the history again before you post anything nonsense. Algebra was discovered by Greeks... the word mathematics is Greek. Go read a few books before you make us cry

sceptre

Freddy Krueger wrote: »

Read the history again before you post anything nonsense. Algebra was discovered by Greeks... the word mathematics is Greek. Go read a few books before you make us cry

The Babylonians were playing around with algebra over a thousand years before either the Indians or the Greeks. The Babylonian Plimpton 322 tablet gives an outline of Pythagorean triples and was made 1200 years before Pythagoras was born. The word "algebra", incidentally, derives from Arabic.

Not that all that or its precursors are relevant when we're discussing riots in Greece, which is the actual point of the thread.

Manic Moran

Calm down... You sound like my mother.

Mathematics may be a Greek word, but Algebra (Al-Jabr) is not.

It is true that Diophantus first came up with algebraic concepts, but it was Mohammed ibn-Musa al-Khowarizmi who actually sorted out algebra and made it practical.

NTM

GuanYin

Freddy Keuger banned.

Stones85

Is Freddy the dad out of "my big fat greek wedding"? Everything originates in Greece.:p

Manic Moran

Gus (The dad) isn't made-up. It's quite accurate a portrayal.

My mother's Greek, she's a combination between Gus and Aunt Voula. After I finally saw MBFGW, I sent my dad an email basically saying "I never realised what you went through to marry her..."

NTM

Dudess

Freddy Krueger wrote: »

Why do I use the word ******... Let me tell ya something, If a black person wants to use that word is an not an offense, if a white yes it is... why?

Not particularly intelligent there. "******" is a term of abuse for black people by white people, when black people use it themselves they are reclaiming it as their word... it still doesn't give white people the right to use it derogatorily. I can't see how it would give them the right.

More than the half of the world is racist.

Oh is it?

Why you don't go to promote multiculturalism in middle East? Did you know the people in these countries don't want no natives in their land.

Could you elaborate?

We must stay united towards mass immigration. Immigration should be limited only within the EU. Illegals out...

There should be controls on mass immigration, yes.

Gordon

Freddy Krueger wrote: »

We must stay united towards mass immigration. Immigration should be limited only within the EU. Illegals out...

Then remove all Greeks from Astoria, New York. I know plenty of illegal aliens of Greek origin in America too, you should insist that they leave and come back to Greece to fulfill their Army obligations.

Freddy, I'll tell you something that you'll enjoy, even though you are banned. I am not Greek but I have lived there for many years, learned the language by reading the Metro stations' translations of their stops and by conversing with periptero workers where I bought my groceries and retsina. I have paid money into the tax system and I really love the place, I loved the place so much I left a good job in Ireland to go there and had no job when I got there, I would have been happy working in Macdonalds.

And the boss of my new job admired me greatly for this. This boss was a wealthy, canny, elderly, wise man. He told me with a straight face: "Gorthie, you are more Greek than most Greek men. While all Greek men want to leave Greece for a better life in Europe, America or Australia - you love Greece so much that you gave up so much to live here". I was quite touched by that.

Freddy, you're not actually living in Greece are you? I guess you must be looking for a better life elsewhere. It's a shame that someone with your opinions is being so hypocritical by not even living in his own country.

I have seen a lot of footage of these anarchists, and I've even been in one particular march where the police tried to scare us by nearly knocking us over with their motorbikes and throwing tear gas everywhere. All of the people causing the problems were of Greek origin. They were all young Greek kids, max 35 years old. I know this because I was walking around amongst them while simultaneously trying to get the hell away from them. Why the rioting is happening is cause for debate but who is causing the firebombed shops and lasered cops - it's young Greek men. Freddy seems to suggest that it is immigrants, but maybe he is saying that immigrants are the underlying reasons for unrest?

Just realised that the word anarchy stems from Greek. Without leader/ruler to be precise. Did Greece create democracy and anarchy?!