Why can Ireland not build a broadband infrastructure like Japan?

Dannyboy83

Ireland is supposed to be a knowledge economy.
We are supposed to be the Silicon Valley of Europe, with headquarters of some of the largest IT firms in the world.

And apparently, Brian Cowen is doing his best to attract new multinationals from the US to try weather the economic storm.

The whole concept behind Keynesian spending during recession is to build infrastructure to dig your way out of recession and to prepare you to capitalise during the good times.

Why can we not do this in Ireland?
Are there some physical obstacles?
What is there to stop a fibre optic cable from Cork to Dublin?

And why are the government always taking the easy way out, like giving the contract to 3?
Can't we just spend a bit of money like Japan, do it properly and then move onto the next thing?

This is a genuine question and not a rant thread, so please don't change the subject about specific providers unless to its relevant to why this infrastructure cannot be built.

jor el

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Ireland is supposed to be a knowledge economy.
We are supposed to be the Silicon Valley of Europe, with headquarters of some of the largest IT firms in the world.

Spin and PR, nothing more. We were never the "e-hub". as Bertie put it, of Europe.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

And apparently, Brian Cowen is doing his best to attract new multinationals from the US to try weather the economic storm.

More spin doctoring.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The whole concept behind Keynesian spending during recession is to build infrastructure to dig your way out of recession and to prepare you to capitalise during the good times.

Hadn't you heard? We're going to cut spending, and tax our way out of the recession.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Why can we not do this in Ireland?

That's a rhetorical quastion, right?

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Are there some physical obstacles?

Eamonn Ryan.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

What is there to stop a fibre optic cable from Cork to Dublin?

I think there already is fiber optic laid down all over the country.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

This is a genuine question and not a rant thread, so please don't change the subject about specific providers unless to its relevant to why this infrastructure cannot be built.

The simple answer is, the political will isn't there. Vast amounts of money were squandered on various public infrastructure projects over the last 10 years. Broadband infrastructure was never even given a priority, and what little money was there, was pretty much wasted too.

Also, when Telecom Eireann was sold off, there were no conditions or terms imposed on the new buyers. They could do pretty much what ever they wanted to with the company, which basically meant strip minig it for every cent they could.

paulm17781

Ireland population density: 71 per KM squared
Japan population density: 337 per KM squared

ban one off housing, get people living in towns and cities, reduce the need to have 10 mile long pairs etc. we'd get up there. In the unplanned mess Ireland is, I'll be surprised if we ever see mass 1 Gbps broadband.

caff

we're too small, its not worth any companies times to sell products like that here. Nooone wanted eircom so it ended up in the hands of VC, VC have no interest in telecoms they just want a return on their investment, they have no motivation to provide a better product or in been innovative.

banquo

We should have Nerd March on the Dail to demand an end to **** BB.

Burning effigies of Eamonn Ryan also a possibility.

XJR

incompetence and not enough political will.

Look at so many major infrastructure programs over the last 10 years how many were delivered on time and on budget?

cgarvey

Population density, political reasons, and the cost of "civils". Civils are a huge, under-reported, barrier. Planning permission, road closing, digging, etc., all cost massive amounts of money.

Sponge Bob

No national policy on dig once and use many times ducting despite it being recommended as a policy at least 7 years ago if not more .

barnicles

Do I see some kind of physical feature blocking us?
Ya. What is it?
Oh ya now I remember , they're called TDs. They're lousy morons who collect money and drive countries down the toilet.

x in the city

Ireland sucks, leaving 3 provide BB serivces is the final straw.

We need a fibre optic linking up all our regional hubs but our politicians are too stuck up their own asses to know what a fibre optic cable is.

I wouldnt mind, but Ireland is a prefect nation to layout a high density high speed BB infrastructure, with a relatively small area and a flat terrain.

The problem is that our ministers are clueless, and Ireland will forever suck it seems

watty

cgarvey wrote: »

Population density, political reasons, and the cost of "civils". Civils are a huge, under-reported, barrier. Planning permission, road closing, digging, etc., all cost massive amounts of money.

In Kenya it's cheap to dig, so getting fibre put in specially to the Home isn't a big deal. Unless you can't afford the electric.

Dannyboy83

Ok, I understand the issue of civils such as the cost of digging and the obstruction.
But could a fibre optic cable not be run adjacent to the railway tracks?
Wouldn't this be a straightfoward solution and cut down costs, eliminate civils and add to the physical infrastructure?

CIE are owned by the government of Ireland so if the Minister for Transport gives the go-ahead, I don't see what could block it?
Is there something I'm not aware of here?

Why are they not taking such an easy, reliable, effective low cost option?
Besides the fact that it would create some jobs and build some REAL infrastructure, it would be easily serviced if its on the railway routes.

Have a look at the railway infrastructure in the map:
http://www.science.ulster.ac.uk/envsci/railnetwork-lge.jpg
Can you imagine if we had proper fibre optic cable and hubs running the length of those railways?


Services like 3 are fine for a consumer who wants to check his email, but they just do not cut it when your talking about developing a leading European business.

mountain

op,

apparently the country is covered is fibre, plenty of grants given out for it over the years, but very little of it is used, about 6-7 years ago fiber was laid outside of my work, ducting was brought to the wall of the building and nothing heard about it again.

A government plan that wasnt fully thought out.

watty

Wireless ISPs do make heavy use of the ESB, MAN and CIE/BT fibre.

The issue is the connection to the home and also some MAN fibre loops have little or no connectivity to the Internet or INEX.

Absolutely it was never fully thought out. There is also a lot of Microwave Links (Mobile Phone companies, Digiweb, RTE and eircom) for backhaul. Some of these are fibre speeds. There is also a lot of eircom fibre, but it goes to exchanges and is expensive for other companies.

To the Customer there is only copper pair (DSL, but lines are poor, too long or shared in many cases), Wireless or Cable.

UPC has been reducing the size of Chorus/NTL cable segments by splitting them and running fibre to each part.


The major issues are:
High costs apart from high line rental for 3rd parties to use Exchange
Very high eircom charges for backhaul
No method of buying/leasing copper pair, the LLU operator has to rent it.
Lines too long outside urban areas
Line sharing
Line Quality
More Spectrum for lower contention/faster speeds on Wireless.
Mobile Internet is advertised as Broadband and seen as solution to all of the above.

partyguinness

this country is incapable of doing anything properly far a variety of reasons which I dont have time to get into..but here goes with the main one.

1. Eircom was sold. The Government has no way of pushing forward top class broadband facilities. Private companies only care about profit and assest striping and providing public services is not a priority.

Dannyboy83

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/ireland-is-worst-in-whole-of--eu-for--home-broadband-1570870.html