HEC Home Semi Final Question

pucan

Query: If either(sorry ulster) Munster or Leinster get a home semi-final, where would it be played?

cgarvey

Swap home grounds? Thomond for a "home" Leinster semi, and RDS (with extended temporary seating) for Munster? Surely that'd be better than travelling abroad, and it's unlikely that GAA grounds would be opened up (or indeed that there'd be time for a motion allowing that).

The RDS configuration can be easily upgraded from the current 18,500-ish to over 20,000 (according to what I've read, and as advertised by the RDS).

So would teams/supporters object to playing on each other's turf (assuming they're not playing each other!)? Would the objection be large enough to conisder going overseas?

remus808

What if they were facing each other? :eek:

Ravenhill?

anonymous_joe

I'd think if they got drawn together the prospect of that much money would get the GAA to open up Croke Park temporarily.

sm.org

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I'd think if they got drawn together the prospect of that much money would get the GAA to open up Croke Park temporarily.

+1 and I for one would love it. All inter pro rivalries aside what an event it would be.

Dear Santa please,please please..................

anonymous_joe

sm.org wrote: »

+1 and I for one would love it. All inter pro rivalries aside what an event it would be.

Dear Santa please,please please..................

+1.

Would dearly love to see that tbh. Would be a fantastic game it would be.

premierstone

anonymous_joe wrote: »

+1.

Would dearly love to see that tbh. Would be a fantastic game it would be.

But how much better would it be if they played each other in the final, imagine trying to get travel arrangements to Edinburgh for that :eek:

Dubliner28

Would not be in Croker IMO
Id say RDS with Munster kicking the living hell out of Leinster.

tHE vAGGABOND

As Im booked and paid for every element of my HEC cup final trip I think a Leinster Munster final would be rather good indeed...

That said I think Leinster need to up their game by several notches to do anything against the top teams tbh..

ScrubsfanChris

sm.org wrote: »

+1 and I for one would love it. All inter pro rivalries aside what an event it would be.

Dear Santa please,please please..................

It happened, it was called 2006.:D

anonymous_joe

premierstone wrote: »

But how much better would it be if they played each other in the final, imagine trying to get travel arrangements to Edinburgh for that :eek:

I wouldn't go tbh. I've a couple of mates I could stay with in Scotland, but there's no way I could afford to get over there for a HC final unless I borrowed a few hundred quid off the parents. That's not cool. ^^

And tbh I had to fly via Ryanair to Eindhoven once the same week as a PSV-Pool game to visit my ex and the price-increases were horrendous. Imagine both major Irish teams converging on one town... :pac:

RugbyFanatic

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

That said I think Leinster need to up their game by several notches to do anything against the top teams tbh..

as do Munster

dreamer_ire

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

As Im booked and paid for every element of my HEC cup final trip

Snap... it would be great to see them both there

Podge_irl

The game will be in Thomond if Leinster get a home quarter final. I doubt Munster are going to get one but if they did it would surely also be in Thomond - there is no requirement for a "neutral" ground for the home semi.

sm.org

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

as do Munster

Not nearly as much though.It really annoys me when NH teams kick the ball dead on the last play, when they need another score for the bonus point and cant actually lose. Both Ulster and Leinster did it last weekend and Warwick did it against the AB's, it really annoys me rarely do you see the SH teams make the same mistake.

bleg

Podge_irl wrote: »

The game will be in Thomond if Leinster get a home quarter final. I doubt Munster are going to get one but if they did it would surely also be in Thomond - there is no requirement for a "neutral" ground for the home semi.

yea i was wondering that. i presumed that it was just down to the luck of the draw and that neither home grounds in the semi had to be neutral.

Podge_irl

Ugh, I didn't read the thread title properly. The "Home" semi has to be a "neutral" ground in your home country - meaning it can't be the ground registered as your home ground. I thought it was referring to the quarters. So Leinster would use Thomond and Munster would have to use an expanded RDS or go abroad (I would think the latter is more likely).

Interestingly Leinster get away with using Lansdowne for semis because their registered home ground was Donnbrook and is now the RDS - it doesn't matter if they move games to Lansdowne though, they can still use it.

bleg

munster should register musgrave as their home ground so and "move" all the pool games to TP

twinytwo

Podge_irl wrote: »

The game will be in Thomond if Leinster get a home quarter final. I doubt Munster are going to get one but if they did it would surely also be in Thomond - there is no requirement for a "neutral" ground for the home semi.

correct me if im wrong but do they not now have noth sale and clermont at home??... and u see them losing?. With both flans and tipoki back for next week and after the rattle they got this weekend clermont are going down as are sale.... munster will top the group and even if they dont who in europe can actually challange them?.. toulouse and thats about it. Clermont got lucky i dont see it happening again

Podge_irl

twinytwo wrote: »

correct me if im wrong but do they not now have noth sale and clermont at home??... and u see them losing?. With both flans and tipoki back for next week and after the rattle they got this weekend clermont are going down as are sale.... munster will top the group and even if they dont who in europe can actually challange them?.. toulouse and thats about it. Clermont got lucky i dont see it happening again

I think they're going to go through, I doubt they'll get a home quarter (again, I was reading it wrong - its dumb luck as to who gets the home semis so they could easily get one of them).

cgarvey

Podge_irl wrote: »

there is no requirement for a "neutral" ground for the home semi.

Not what IRFU and ERC websites say, I'm afraid. It may have changed in the meantime, but they definitely refer to "neutral" venues for semis. We use quotes, because neutral just means not their registered home ground, or not a ground they play pool matches in regularly (depending on who you believe on what website).

EDIT: Sorry, I see your clarification later in the thread!

cgarvey

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I'd think if they got drawn together the prospect of that much money would get the GAA to open up Croke Park temporarily.

Isn't it too late for that? Wasn't the national congress (held in Sept) motion only for international matches at Croke Park's discretion (i.e. not for non-international matches), or have I read that wrong? If it requires another (emergency) national congress motion to allow that, then I can't see that happening (nor should they be expected to arrange it, IMO).

phog

There's a lot of water to flow under the bridge but if it happended that we got a home SF I'm sure the ERC would allow us to use Thomond Park for a SF as there is no other suitable rugby ground currently available in this country. A few years back I know Leinster had permission to use LR for pool games as well knockout games.

anonymous_joe

cgarvey wrote: »

Isn't it too late for that? Wasn't the national congress (held in Sept) motion only for international matches at Croke Park's discretion (i.e. not for non-international matches), or have I read that wrong? If it requires another (emergency) national congress motion to allow that, then I can't see that happening (nor should they be expected to arrange it, IMO).

Well there's nowhere else in teh country then. Other than Thomond, and Munster wouldn;t be allowed play there.

phog

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Well there's nowhere else in teh country then. Other than Thomond, and Munster wouldn;t be allowed play there.

Why not?

anonymous_joe

phog wrote: »

Why not?

Has to be a neutral ground doesn't it?

[Jackass]

Ok, let's clarify a few things.

If Munster get a home Quater final, it will 100% be played in Thomond no matter who the opposition. If Leinster get a home quarter final, it will 100% be played in RDS no matter who the oppisition.

If either team get a home semi final, they will 100% look for Croke Park to be opened, no matter who the opposition. If Leinster get a home semi final and can't use Croke Park they will more than likely play in Thomond. If Munster get a home semi final and can't use Croke Park, they will more than likely play in RDS.

Your HOME quarter final is played in your HOME ground.

a HOME semi final is played in a HOME - NEUTRAL venu, i.e. an elected ground other than your already home ground.

a Leinster / Munster semi will almost certainly be in Croke Park, without doubt. It doesn't take much to get the GAA together to ask "Shall we use our empty stadium this weekend for a few million gain?". Don't worry, if (please god) it happens, it will be sorted.

ok, to the quotes:

ScrubsfanChris wrote:

It happened, it was called 2006.

I think this is why you will find any Leinster fan would sell their left nut for a meeting with Munster in the HEC this year. And I also suggest people watch back the game in the RDS. If ever there was a false sense of security set in results...

bleg wrote:

munster should register musgrave as their home ground so and "move" all the pool games to TP

Can't be done unfortunately, although a nice idea. Your "neutral" home venue can not be in any ground that you have played a "home" game in already that season.

Hence the descion of Wasps to announce immediatley after the Leinster game in RDS to have the return leg in Twickers...not exactly backing the team, but at least they will get paid.

twinytwo wrote:

correct me if im wrong but do they not now have noth sale and clermont at home??... and u see them losing?. With both flans and tipoki back for next week and after the rattle they got this weekend clermont are going down as are sale.... munster will top the group and even if they dont who in europe can actually challange them?.. toulouse and thats about it. Clermont got lucky i dont see it happening again

Luck is a funny thing I suppose. I didn't think I'd ever see a team or proper fan have that opinion about a team who was put away in that fashion for 30 minutes in the second half - with desperate defence holding out a killer blow to sink the match, inches away from the try line on a few occasions and living on the very questionable side of the law (as always - the masters of it) - and to receive a gift of a penalty with 5 to go out of range, moved forward 10 for talk back to the ref and hence in range for a lucky bonus point - ever conisder themselves unlucky.

Although I do agree Munster will top the group, not sure about a home quarter, but certainly not out of the question. Considering the group they have it's a tough call, but I wouldn't put it past them for a second, still the team to beat in my opinion.

Shan75

Jackass Wrote:

Luck is a funny thing I suppose. I didn't think I'd ever see a team or proper fan have that opinion about a team who was put away in that fashion for 30 minutes in the second half - with desperate defence holding out a killer blow to sink the match, inches away from the try line on a few occasions and living on the very questionable side of the law (as always - the masters of it) - and to receive a gift of a penalty with 5 to go out of range, moved forward 10 for talk back to the ref and hence in range for a lucky bonus point - ever conisder themselves unlucky.

Although I do agree Munster will top the group, not sure about a home quarter, but certainly not out of the question. Considering the group they have it's a tough call, but I wouldn't put it past them for a second, still the team to beat in my opinion.

I have to agree with this.I was relieved at the end that Munster got away with a bonus point after being outplayed for most of the second half.The thing in our favour is Munster's ability to up their game in Thomond Park especially when they are in danger of losing.However if CA turn up with the right attitude they could cause us problems.I'm not so sure about Sale.Sure they are decent but I think Munster have a huge psychological edge over them.Who knows what Montabaun will do but by all accounts they are preparing for this showdown with all sorts of events planned.They could see this as their chance to turn over the champions and come out with their top team and really go for it.Could they be the ones to spoil the party?

Podge_irl

[Jackass] wrote: »

a HOME semi final is played in a HOME - NEUTRAL venu, i.e. an elected ground other than your already home ground.

a Leinster / Munster semi will almost certainly be in Croke Park, without doubt. It doesn't take much to get the GAA together to ask "Shall we use our empty stadium this weekend for a few million gain?". Don't worry, if (please god) it happens, it will be sorted.

Can't be done unfortunately, although a nice idea. Your "neutral" home venue can not be in any ground that you have played a "home" game in already that season.

Leinster played their "home" seme against Munster having already used Lansdowne Road for home games in the HEC. As did Toulouse one year I believe.

barnesd

Real pie in the sky stuff here but if both teams got a home SF (not against each other) could you imagine a double header in Croke Park?

barnesd

[Jackass] wrote: »

Can't be done unfortunately, although a nice idea. Your "neutral" home venue can not be in any ground that you have played a "home" game in already that season.

I don't think that's correct. Leinster played pool games in Lansdown in 05/06 and still played the SF there. Or were Munster officially the 'home' team?

Crash

I'm pretty sure Munster were considered the home team there - cant be 100% though.

Pshan

Going Forward wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Munster were considered the home team there - cant be 100% though.

No Leinster were home but Munster got the "home" dressing room because Kidney insisted that it was neutral ground and both teams had to toss for the dressing room with Munster winning.

phog

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Has to be a neutral ground doesn't it?

Yes, the ERC insists on a neutral ground but I'm sure if the Munster Branch and the IRFU seek a derogation due to the fact that our neutral grounds are too small and GAA grounds will not be made available for rugby then Thomond Park would be allowed host the game.

Goodluck2me

[Jackass] wrote: »

Hence the descion of Wasps to announce immediatley after the Leinster game in RDS to have the return leg in Twickers...not exactly backing the team, but at least they will get paid.

Could you explain what you mean here?

pucan

The discussion comes up again

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0128/1232923369616.html

See how ahead of the curve i am?

If munster dont make the HEC Final(touch wood), Munster should host the Lions in a warm up game.

phog

pucan wrote: »

The discussion comes up again

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0128/1232923369616.html

See how ahead of the curve i am?

If munster dont make the HEC Final(touch wood), Munster should host the Lions in a warm up game.

As much as I'd like to see the Lions playing in Thomond Park it wouldn't be a patch on Munster retaining the H/Cup.

pucan

Hench the touch wood!

juvenal

The IRFU today made a formal written request to the GAA for the availability of Lansdowne Road Croke Park for a possible Munster-Leinster HEC semi-final.

The matter will be considered by the GAA Central Council who meet on Saturday 14th February.

juvenal

juvenal wrote: »

The IRFU today made a formal written request to the GAA for the availability of Lansdowne Road for a possible Munster-Leinster HEC semi-final.

The matter will be considered by the GAA Central Council who meet on Saturday 14th February.

You mean Croker?

juvenal

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean Croker?

Yeah, cheers. Brain freeze

I can't see there being any issue with the GAA, should both teams win their respective quarter-finals.

premierstone

juvenal wrote: »

Yeah, cheers. Brain freeze

I can't see there being any issue with the GAA, should both teams win their respective quarter-finals.

Has to be decided before the quarter finals are played AFAIK

juvenal

premierstone wrote: »

Has to be decided before the quarter finals are played AFAIK

Yeah, it does according to ERC rules.

I think the GAA will grant permission, on the basis that both teams qualify. I was just surmising that they will probably have a clause that if Munster qualify, and Leinster don't, then Croker won't be available. In that case, one wonders where Munster would have a potential semi final.

Podge_irl

juvenal wrote: »

Yeah, it does according to ERC rules.

I think the GAA will grant permission, on the basis that both teams qualify. I was just surmising that they will probably have a clause that if Munster qualify, and Leinster don't, then Croker won't be available. In that case, one wonders where Munster would have a potential semi final.

Munster would probably fill Croker on their own anyway. I can't imagine such a clause being in any agreement. It would only leave three weeks to find a suitable ground - which would mean expanding the RDS or moving the game to England. Not really enough time for that and I'm not sure the ERC would allow it anyway.

juvenal

Podge_irl wrote: »

Munster would probably fill Croker on their own anyway. I can't imagine such a clause being in any agreement. It would only leave three weeks to find a suitable ground - which would mean expanding the RDS or moving the game to England. Not really enough time for that and I'm not sure the ERC would allow it anyway.

No doubt Munster would fill it on their own. It'll be interesting to see how the Central Council address it. You never know what the outcome would be, and I'm sure some of the old-school diehards in the GAA will be muttering anyway.

Hopefully both teams will qualify for the semis and we'll have another great day out in Croker!

premierstone

juvenal wrote: »

No doubt Munster would fill it on their own. It'll be interesting to see how the Central Council address it. You never know what the outcome would be, and I'm sure some of the old-school diehards in the GAA will be muttering anyway.
Hopefully both teams will qualify for the semis and we'll have another great day out in Croker!

Thats a bit presumptuous and unfair tbh, they have been extremely accomadating to both the FAI and IRFU to-date

juvenal

premierstone wrote: »

Thats a bit presumptuous and unfair tbh, they have been extremely accomadating to both the FAI and IRFU to-date

I'm a GAA member and work in Croke Park; I'm not talking about anyone in Croke Park, as I know the personnel involved there, more the regional and county members that made objections against the opening of Croke Park initially (see some Ulster Council officers for example). The staff in Croke Park have been outstanding in their dealings with both the FAI and GAA, I know from first hand experience. Once the motion was passed it was embraced by all GAA staff and officers in Croke Park, and full credit to them, as some of them would've been staunch supporters of the rule.

The initial permission was for Irish rugby & soccer internationals to be held in Croke Park for the duration of the Lansdowne Road redevelopment. All I was saying was that now that permission is likely to be extended beyond these matches, there's likely to be some minor objections as some people will see this as further evidence that the GAA are "selling out".:rolleyes:

Anyway, I just heard on the radio that the application is to hold a Heineken Cup semi-final in Croke Park in April, nothing mentioned specifically about the teams. So it looks like as long as permission is granted and Munster qualify for the semi-finals it'll be in Croke Park, irrespective of the opposition.