Urgent help needed buyin Les Paul

bluskut

Hi, I am buying a Les Paul as xmas present and need help!

Quality wise, what's the difference between Epiphone and Gibson?
Looking at Thomann, Epiphone LP Studio is around €500, Gibson LP Studio is around €1000.

Which would you recommend?

Also, what would a decent, but not too expensive amp be to go along with it?

Are there any places other than Thomann that people would recommend?

Thanks for all help

Dord

bluskut wrote: »

Hi, I am buying a Les Paul as xmas present and need help!

Quality wise, what's the difference between Epiphone and Gibson?
Looking at Thomann, Epiphone LP Studio is around €500, Gibson LP Studio is around €1000.

Which would you recommend?

Also, what would a decent, but not too expensive amp be to go along with it?

Are there any places other than Thomann that people would recommend?

Thanks for all help

The Epiphones are of lower quality compared to the Gibsons. The Epi's are made in China and Gibsons in USA.

Check out GAK.co.uk & dolphinmusic.co.uk, you'll probably find they're a bit cheaper than Thomann in some cases.

brendansmith

Em, I wouldnt rush it tbh, Les Pauls are expensive.

Any chance you wanna give a bit more info?

bluskut

brendansmith wrote: »

Em, I wouldnt rush it tbh, Les Pauls are expensive.

Any chance you wanna give a bit more info?

GF is looking to upgrade so decided I'd get an LP for her. Is there much of a quality difference between Epiphone and Gibson?

Thanks for responses so far.

spoonbadger

bluskut wrote: »

GF is looking to upgrade so decided I'd get an LP for her. Is there much of a quality difference between Epiphone and Gibson?

Thanks for responses so far.

Huge difference between an epiphone and a gibson.

And are you sure you want to get her a les paul?. What kinda music does she like?.

bluskut

spoonbadger wrote: »

Huge difference between an epiphone and a gibson.

And are you sure you want to get her a les paul?. What kinda music does she like?.

yeah she definitely wants LP, she's always playing them when we go to music shops.

I'm just looking for independent advice on whether the quality difference justifies the price.

spoonbadger

This is what i'd recomend if your getting an epiphone...

http://www.thomann.de/ie/epiphone_les_paul_ultra_ii_faded_cherry.htm

spoonbadger

bluskut wrote: »

yeah she definitely wants LP, she's always playing them when we go to music shops.

I'm just looking for independent advice on whether the quality difference justifies the price.

What's she playing now?.And how long has she been playing for?.

Gibsons are far better than epiphones, probably worth the price difference because they keep their value better too. But neither are very good value in general. Small scale japanese companies make the best les pauls,but if you want one of them then you wouldnt have it by x-mas (lots of research + shipping time).

bluskut

spoonbadger wrote: »

What's she playing now?.And how long has she been playing for?.

Gibsons are far better than epiphones, probably worth the price difference because they keep their value better too. But neither are very good value in general. Small scale japanese companies make the best les pauls,but if you want one of them then you wouldnt have it by x-mas (lots of research + shipping time).

Sh'e been playing about 6 years, currently playing a Fender, wants to move on to LP. I think I'll go with the Gibson. Is the sound quality much better on Gibson compared to Epiphone?

Also, can anyone recommend a decent amp?

CianRyan

bluskut wrote: »

Also, can anyone recommend a decent amp?

What kinda music does she play?

Alanstrainor

We need a budget too, there's not much point spending 1000+ on a guitar to have 100 left for an amp. What amp does she have already? Maybe a new amp isn't needed?

Eoin Madsen

bluskut wrote: »

I'm just looking for independent advice on whether the quality difference justifies the price.

bluskut wrote: »

Sh'e been playing about 6 years, currently playing a Fender, wants to move on to LP. I think I'll go with the Gibson. Is the sound quality much better on Gibson compared to Epiphone?

Yes, the sound quality is much better, and they intonate and stay in tune much better. I would definitely not buy an Epiphone Les Paul for someone who's been playing for six years. They're just overpriced beginner's guitars.

If she has her heart set on a Gibson, then a Les Paul Studio is decent guitar for the money. They get less cost effective as the prices rise. Generally, the Les Paul Standard sounds much the same as the Studio, but the neck feels nicer.

bluskut wrote: »

Also, can anyone recommend a decent amp?

It basically depends on how heavy she likes to rock, and how much money is being spent. If you're buying her a €1000 guitar, you should probably be spending about the same on an amp, imo. She better be marrying you.

spoonbadger

+1 on what alan and eoin said.

Something to add though, is that gibson standards *do* sound better than studio. Unless i'm wrong, i think the studio uses ceramic pickups, whereas the standards use better quality alnico pickups.

Dont worry too much about the amp budget for the moment. If she unwraps a brand new gibby on christmas morning, she isnt gonna turn to you and say "so where's my new amp to go with that? :pac:". If you get her a good guitar, you can both worry about the amp later.

But if you do want us to recomend you an amp,then we really need to know what she wants to play. You could get her 2 amps in the same price bracket that sound nothing alike.

ClutchIt

The best amp you can get for decent money is one from the Roland Cube range. They come in loads of different sizes.

They come with all the effects and a tuner built in. The clean sounds really beatiful. Between me and my two brothers we have the 5w, 20w, 30w and 60w versions!!

I think the difference in quality between an Epiphone and Gibson is not worth the money. No way.

Buy a high end Epiphone if you want it for christmas. Otherwise as was said before the japanese brands make excellent quality Les Pauls for a fraction of the Gibson price.
I paid €750 for a beautiful Tokai and it's just as good as a Gibson IMO.

I would recommend Thomann.

Drummerboy08

When you spend this kin of money on something, your always better off buying it face to face. That way if something goes wrong (i know, not a whole lot can go wrong) you dont have to worry about shipping it back to Germany.

The LP Studio is prob the better bet - a standard might be too heavy for your missus. And there's a farily large price difference if i remember right.....

Good choice in that guitar IMO.

ClutchIt

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=83727&cat=16

Forgot to mention, definitely check out adverts.ie you can grab yourself a great deal.

Here's a Gibson LP Special. I've never played a special but the price on this is good because it includes a hard case and a fender practice amp.

Eoin Madsen

I researched Gibson LP Studios and Standards pretty extensively a few years ago and played a couple of each model. I don't know if they're changed a whole lot since then, but at the time the weight (by spec) was identical. Played through a shop JCM2000 (admittedly not a great amp anyway) there was no improvement in sound between the Studio and the Standard that I tried in succession. They weren't exactly the same, but they were pretty damn similar and neither was decisively better to my ear. I thought the bound neck on the Standard was more comfortable. But not 700 or so euros more comfortable. They were both solid black finished, so the AA grade maple in the top of the standard vs the normal grade maple in the top of the Studio was beyond redundant.

As for Epiphones... you get exceptions in all things of course, but in eight years of sound engineering I'm still waiting to hear an Epiphone Les Paul that can even intonate across the whole neck. I am not exaggerating. If you want to get a stack of plys and sawdust encased in glue and polyester and shaped like a Les Paul, there are cheaper guitars. :pac: Whatever she has right now, it would be practically impossible for it to be bad enough for an Epiphone to be considered an upgrade.

old gregg

I bought an Epiphone Les Paul studio for my son as his first guitar a few years ago from Thomann and it was a fine guitar for the money. Nothing too special but when most of his friends were throwing money away on cheap fenders it was money well spent.

If you've got plenty of cash to spend and it's for someone who's an experienced musician then an option worth considering would be a Paul Reed Smith (PRS) http://www.prsguitars.com model. I played one of these for a while and it was beautiful. I know Thomann do them starting at around €585

Squirrel

If you are going the Epiphone route, I got an Epiphone Les Paul Custom for £389stg odd up in Belfast. Cheaper than Thomann and £100 cheaper than GAK and I got to try it before I bought it. http://www.matchettsmusic.com/product/0d10cae2-cd3f-4bce-9861-75a9eb16b5db.aspx This is where I got it in July, but as you can see they're prices have increased, unless they're site is well behind and that's an old price.

Give X Music a look perhaps, might find something nice out there

darrenw5094

Can't believe that nobody has suggested the Edwards Les Paul made in Japan.
Edwards are in a different class than any Epiphone.

They are top quality guitars, build, hardware, etc.
Check out the Edwards brand on ebay....plenty of sellers on there.

By the way, they are probably better than most Gibsons too.....
All in for about €800 or so. You won't be dissapointed.

old gregg

there have indeed been some fine and sometimes rare guitars come out of Japan in the last 30 years

bluskut

Going to go with the Gibson LP studio.

For the amp, I'm looking at either the Marshall MG15DFX http://www.thomann.de/ie/marshall_mg15dfx.htm
or the Roland Cube 20X http://www.thomann.de/ie/roland_cube_20x.htm

Can anyone recommend which of these would be best?

Also, with Thomann being German, I'm just a bit worried about power supply etc... Will they be European plugs (as opposed to Irish/ UK plugs). If the power supply ever needs to be replaced, has anybody ever had problems getting replacements locally?

Sorry about all the questions!

Thanks for all the help!

darrenw5094

The Marshall MG would be the last on my list. The Roland Cube would be higher on my list alright. All i can say there, is that i have a 15w Cube for the bedroom and the tone is not bad at all. For the cost involved, i am very happy with the Roland.

Although, i would really recomend trying out the Line 6 range as a better choice than the Marshall.

Check out the Zack Wylde Marshall practice stack on www.gak.co.uk

About the German power supply, they run on the same voltage as us, so if it came with a euro 2 pin plug, just put a plug adapter on the end of it. My Roland Cube has a 2 pin adapter, but i have a plug adapter to plug in the the wall and then rock like a motherf**ker.

Eoin Madsen

I wouldn't touch an MG with a ten foot pole. Definitely the Cube, by a long shot.

All of the EU uses 230V, but they use different shaped sockets on the mainland so you'll probably have to wire on a UK/Irish style plug. It's simple enough... if you're sufficiently macho you should have been born knowing how. You can get a plug in B&Q or the likes, or in Maplin or Peats if you're in the city centre. Don't use an adaptor unless you're sure it has a connecting earth. The normal euro type plugs have the earth pin in the socket, rather than having all three pins on the plug as per UK.

jimi_t

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

All of the EU uses 230V...

220-240v surely?

Eoin Madsen

jimi_t wrote: »

220-240v surely?

As of several years ago, the official standard in the European Union is 230V but with something like -10% +6% tolerance, I think.

In practice, the ESB seems to deliver something around 225V most of the time in my grid (I measured 220V at tea time). But basically, almost all electrical devices are intercompatible intra-EU without different voltage transformation - as opposed to going EU-US or EU-Japan, both of which require additional transformers, or a change of primary winding tap on a device's internal power transformer in order to match the different supply voltage.

felim

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

As of several years ago, the official standard in the European Union is 230V but with something like -10% +6%, I think.

In practice, the ESB seems to deliver something around 225V most of the time in my grid (I measured 220V at tea time). But basically, almost all electrical devices are intercompatible intra-EU without different voltage transformation - as opposed to going EU-US or EU-Japan, both of which require additional transformers, or a change of primary winding tap on a device's internal power transformer in order to match the different supply voltage.

Eoin, a possibly silly question and sorry for hijacking the thread but....

Could the varying voltages coming out of the wall socket effect the tone of an amp? Would higher voltage from the wall effect the plate voltage and so effect the bias of the valves, i.e them being hotter or colder?

The reason I'm asking is I have the mains voltage selector on my amp set to 220V. I've seen others set theirs for 240V, could the setting of this selector in Ireland effect the tone of the amp?

I'm nitpicking I suppose but still.....

ClutchIt

I have owned both those amps.

Its true the marshall is awful. It was my first amp and it was terrible.

The cube 20x is a brilliant amp, has so many features and effects.
Most importantly the clean channel is excellent.

Eoin Madsen

felim wrote: »

Eoin, a possibly silly question and sorry for hijacking the thread but....

Could the varying voltages coming out of the wall socket effect the tone of an amp? Would higher voltage from the wall effect the plate voltage and so effect the bias of the valves, i.e them being hotter or colder?

The reason I'm asking is I have the mains voltage selector on my amp set to 220V. I've seen others set theirs for 240V, could the setting of this selector in Ireland effect the tone of the amp?

I'm nitpicking I suppose but still.....

Not a silly question. Yes, it does. Unless the supply is regulated after rectification (it never is in vintage designs), all voltages in the amp are proportionately affected by the wall voltage.

The variance from one half of the day to the next is not generally enough to be problematic but the overall offset is useful to be aware of. I would take the transformer tap voltages as guidelines only - they seem inaccurate in my experience, even when the wall voltage is correct. Generally, I think you should use whichever tap gets your heater voltage as close to 6.3V as you can, since the plates and screens will function with a pretty wide variance and the bias is adjustable to suit.

I built a Champ a while back and initially wired the PT to its 220V tap - I was getting 7V on the heaters so I had to change the tap to 230V to lower the heater voltage. Or else it was 230 and I upped it to 240... I can't actually remember. But you get the idea.

BostonB

ClutchIt wrote: »

I have owned both those amps.

Its true the marshall is awful. It was my first amp and it was terrible.

The cube 20x is a brilliant amp, has so many features and effects.
Most importantly the clean channel is excellent.

While I like the clean on my 20x there seems to be EQ differences between the distortions on the dirty channel. Anyone else find that? But ithas a lot more features than the marshal. The tuner is very handy for example.

felim

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

Not a silly question. Yes, it does. Unless the supply is regulated after rectification (it never is in vintage designs), all voltages in the amp are proportionately affected by the wall voltage.

The variance from one half of the day to the next is not generally enough to be problematic but the overall offset is useful to be aware of. I would take the transformer tap voltages as guidelines only - they seem inaccurate in my experience, even when the wall voltage is correct. Generally, I think you should use whichever tap gets your heater voltage as close to 6.3V as you can, since the plates and screens will function with a pretty wide variance and the bias is adjustable to suit.

I built a Champ a while back and initially wired the PT to its 220V tap - I was getting 7V on the heaters so I had to change the tap to 230V to lower the heater voltage. Or else it was 230 and I upped it to 240... I can't actually remember. But you get the idea.

Cool, thanks. The heater voltage on an EL34 is measured between pins 2 and 7 right?

Eoin Madsen

felim wrote: »

Cool, thanks. The heater voltage on an EL34 is measured between pins 2 and 7 right?

Yes. And don't forget to switch your multimeter to AC. :pac:

I blew a 5A fuse and tripped the RCD in my house by shorting the mains to ground through myself last night right after resoldering a bad joint in a heater wire. Always unplug the amp if you're working on it when it doesn't need to be on.

CianRyan

On the cube, i honestly cant see why every one loves them so much, i have one, and its only ok.
The tunner is handy enough, but the tones from the amp are only decent at low levels, the distorted tones i dont like at all, cleans just never seem to be what i want them to be.

Not really a major fan of the cube range, but it is deffinatly better than the MG thats for sure.

BostonB

I kinda agree. The clean is very roland, as you'd expect but the distorsions are nothing to write home about. I tend to use a pedal with mine.

darrenw5094

If you want a quality amp, you will have to spend quality cash.
A minimum of maybe €500 should get you a decent valve amp.

Check these out
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/79284
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/marshall-dsl401/283
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/marshall-mg-15mszw/71572
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/peavey-bandit-112/434
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/peavey-valve-king-112/68946
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/77818
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/crush-15r/8187
Delivery from there is £26 per delivery.

dermo909

I've had a gibson lp studio for years and its definitely a fine guitar. And it says the right thing on the headstock
There is a huge difference in sound quality between a studio and a standard. The standard is a different beast altogether, much more toneful and powerful. And it has all those les paul tones in it, whereas the studio falls a little short. Still though, through the right amp the studio sounds wonderful!
Regarding the amp, I'd steer clear of both the roland and the marshall and save up for something with valves in it. Blackstar ht5 springs to mind

BostonB

You buy a cube to practise with headphones or very low volumes. You need a tube amp at a decent volume (usually load) to get decent tone out of it, unless you use a power soak etc. Even then its not quiet. Whats the difference in contruction between the studio and standard that determines the difference in sound?

Eoin Madsen

BostonB wrote: »

Whats the difference in contruction between the studio and standard that determines the difference in sound?

The details of the models change from year to year. In general: the Studio has a normal grade maple top instead of AA grade maple ("grade" is basically down to how figured the grain pattern is - the tonal difference between grade in a top is mostly imaginary). The standard has binding on the body and neck, which gives it a more bindingy tone. :pac:

The Studio has a Gibson 490R and a 498T pickup and the Standard has a pair of Gibson Burstbucker pickups. The pickups on the Gibson models have changed frequently over the years but the 490R and 498T appear on several guitars at present, including the SG standard.

BostonB

I'd say the pickups rather than the binding are the difference, I didn't realise they were different.

felim

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

The Studio has a Gibson 490R and a 498T pickup and the Standard has a pair of Gibson Burstbucker pickups. The pickups on the Gibson models have changed frequently over the years but the 490R and 498T appear on several guitars at present, including the SG standard.

Those pickups used to be on LP Standards before they had Burstbuckers. The 98 model I used to have had them.

Eoin Madsen

BostonB wrote: »

I'd say the pickups rather than the binding are the difference, I didn't realise they were different.

All joking aside, I actually wouldn't be surprised if the difference in the feel of the binding affected the player's tone more than the difference between one Gibson stock pickup and another Gibson stock pickup.

BostonB

Those burstbucker pickups sound quite different to me, in the clips on the net. binding I have no opinion, I've never compared quitars with and without it.

Eoin Madsen

BostonB wrote: »

Those burstbucker pickups sound quite different to me, in the clips on the net. binding I have no opinion, I've never compared quitars with and without it.

They didn't sound so different when I played them side by side. The binding on the neck did feel nicer to play.

BostonB

I was musing over getting a studio and putting a Bare Knuckles VHII into it.