Frost Closures

Swinging Looney

Just wondering how many Pay & Play or any other courses are open despite the frost over the past week or two?

I'm disgusted that my home course stayed open with frost covered greens which will lead to more or less permanent and quite severe damage. Since the course relies quite heavily on visitor green fees, I was told by way of an excuse, that while many courses are closed till the frost burns off, all the pay & play courses will be open regardless.

So, is this the case?

Feel a bit robbed if I am paying membership but the course is catering to visitors first and members second.

Mister Sifter

I passed by Elmgreen this afternoon and it looked like people were out playing. I know they usually keep people off until all the frost is off the greens though.

It's a dangerous game letting people on them when frost is on them. Can do serious damage.

copacetic

haven't booked a frosty morning this winter yet, but all the pay and play courses are usually closed when there is frost on the greens (grange c, elmgreen, hollystown, sillogue etc). Maybe this year is different because they desperately need the money after such a wet year.

Swinging Looney

I'd imagine that an attempt to offset the terrible summer is the most likely reason. At my course the greens are in a terrible state. Partly due to the weather and mostly due to a year of very poor maintenance. I fear this may turn out to be the common case of a short term gain in grabbing a few green fees now leading to long term troubles which will cost more in the long run.

It seems so silly when waiting even just for a slight thaw will give the greens some chance of recovery.

fred funk }{

Swinging Looney wrote: »

I'd imagine that an attempt to offset the terrible summer is the most likely reason. At my course the greens are in a terrible state. Partly due to the weather and mostly due to a year of very poor maintenance. I fear this may turn out to be the common case of a short term gain in grabbing a few green fees now leading to long term troubles which will cost more in the long run.

It seems so silly when waiting even just for a slight thaw will give the greens some chance of recovery.

Which club is it?

scary

copacetic wrote: »

haven't booked a frosty morning this winter yet, but all the pay and play courses are usually closed when there is frost on the greens (grange c, elmgreen, hollystown, sillogue etc). Maybe this year is different because they desperately need the money after such a wet year.

grangecastle definitly closes, infact probably has been closed more than open the last couple of weeks.

Swinging Looney

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Which club is it?

Might seem silly, but I don't really want to say just at the minute. I'll wait and see if they change their policy. I've brought it up with the owner of the course.

clg23

Looney,

I think I know the course you are talking about. The course didnt let people out this morning until the frost was nearly cleared. I know a few of the members complained to the owner about it.

Swinging Looney

clg23,

If you are right then I'd be quite happy. I haven't been up there this weekend but last weekend was more or less the same and play was entirely unrestricted. Talking to a member friend of mine yesterday and they said that they teed off about 9.30 and the entire course was like an ice rink.

Lets hope the damage hasn't already been done.

ShriekingSheet

The sickening thing (for public course players) is that you know if your course opens, there's probably a good few member's club players (who's course is shut) will happily come down and wreck yours while there's closes for the day for the good of the greens.

It's part of a common theme that gets my goat regarding public courses. Players don't have the same respect for the course, repairing pitch-marks and divots etc. Some really nice courses get treated like student accomodation.

JCDUB

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

The sickening thing (for public course players) is that you know if your course opens, there's probably a good few member's club players (who's course is shut) will happily come down and wreck yours while there's closes for the day for the good of the greens.

Too bad, if you play a public course and it opens in frosty weather then you'll get people coming to play on it, end of story.That's why a lot of public courses open, to get green fees in when a lot of other courses are closed.

Obviously I would expect the players to show the same amount of respect to the course as they would anywhere, and I hope that no golfer would intentionally damage a course, but if these courses open in frosty conditions chances are they will be damaged.

It's wrong of you to suggest that members of a members club will come and intentionally ruin a public course, just because it's public. Like all golfers, all they want is to get out and play a round.

ShriekingSheet

JCDUB wrote: »

Too bad, if you play a public course and it opens in frosty weather then you'll get people coming to play on it, end of story.That's why a lot of public courses open, to get green fees in when a lot of other courses are closed.

Regular players pay weekly green fees year-round to a local Public Course which makes the crap decision to open on a frosty day and it's too bad??

I was expressing sympathy for the guys who put the course owners kids through college, only for the owners to fail to show good sense in maintaining the course.

JCDUB wrote: »

Obviously I would expect the players to show the same amount of respect to the course as they would anywhere, and I hope that no golfer would intentionally damage a course, but if these courses open in frosty conditions chances are they will be damaged.

It's wrong of you to suggest that members of a members club will come and intentionally ruin a public course, just because it's public. Like all golfers, all they want is to get out and play a round.

I'm not suggesting the fault is with the golfers here. It's not as if Public players will show up to the course being open and say "better not play, we might damage the greens".

I find the fact that course managers opening on frosted days sickening because not only will the course be damaged by it's usual traffic, but by virtue of the fact that other courses in the locale had the sense to close, players who were to play elsewhere can often come and play on the one course that's open - increasing the damage.

I don't think we actually disagree - Bottom line, if a course opens, players will play. The course/club is responsible for any damage done due to frost. And it's those guys that p*ss me off.

It was a seperate point (to the frost) but I stick by what I said about a lot of golfers taking less care on public courses re: pitch marks and divots than they would on their own course. Maybe it's natural but it's still a shame.

Mister Sifter

This argument seems to have gone way off track here. Maybe i'm mistaken but i don't think Swinging Looney said the cours ein question was a public one. In fact all the replies on here so far suggest that public courses DON'T open when there is frost on the greens.

That is certainly my experience.

Pretty bemusing and annoying the way people seem to look upon members of public courses with some kind of wounded soldier or lesser type golfer mentality.

Blunder

iirc my home course usually lets the frost clear some bit but we are never allowed to use the greens. Temporary greens are in operation when its frosty. If the frost is particularly bad then the course will be closed. I actually had the longest drive i ever had on a frosty morning. Left myself a 3/4 PW to a par 5! It was like driving onto a fairway made from concrete. Still only made par:o

JCDUB

Graeme1982 wrote: »

This argument seems to have gone way off track here. Maybe i'm mistaken but i don't think Swinging Looney said the cours ein question was a public one. In fact all the replies on here so far suggest that public courses DON'T open when there is frost on the greens.

That is certainly my experience.

Agreed Graeme, I was just stating that if a course (public or not) opens during frosty conditions, there will be consequences.

As regards ShriekingSheet's statement above, I agree that in the case of public courses it's the course owners who make this decision, usually to make a quick buck rather than considering the long term effects of opening the course in frosty conditions, and this can lead to members of these courses being hard done by.
As stated above, they should take this up with the course owners/management.

OilBeefHooked2

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

It was a seperate point (to the frost) but I stick by what I said about a lot of golfers taking less care on public courses re: pitch marks and divots than they would on their own course. Maybe it's natural but it's still a shame.

Are you speaking from a personal point of view?, in my experience I find that people that replace divots and repair pitch marks do so regardless of the course they are playing.

ShriekingSheet

david-k wrote: »

Are you speaking from a personal point of view?, in my experience I find that people that replace divots and repair pitch marks do so regardless of the course they are playing.

Personally, if I see an uprepaired pitchmark I'll sort it, as a lot of guys would. I find myself doing this more frequently on public courses than on others.

Mister Sifter

I'd agree with that.

Not surprising though the amount of traffic some of them experience and the standard/knowledge of alot of the players.

Mat the trasher

I find that no matter where i'm playing, if i'm behind a society, its a pitch fork in both hands. Its not the location, rather the visitors, excluding the usual exceptions.

kingshankly

Mat the trasher wrote: »

I find that no matter where i'm playing, if i'm behind a society, its a pitch fork in both hands. Its not the location, rather the visitors, excluding the usual exceptions.

prepare yourself for a lambasting;)

ShriekingSheet

looks like there's no chance of golf this weekend

clg23

Why no golf this weekend?

"Tomorrow Saturday will be very cold with frost clearing slowly during the morning. Sunny spells in all areas and most places will be dry however there will be scattered hail and snow showers at times in coastal counties of southwest, west and north."

I am basing tonights drinking around getting out for a round tomorrow! Do you know something I dont?

ShriekingSheet

clg23 wrote: »

Why no golf this weekend?

"Tomorrow Saturday will be very cold with frost clearing slowly during the morning. Sunny spells in all areas and most places will be dry however there will be scattered hail and snow showers at times in coastal counties of southwest, west and north."

I am basing tonights drinking around getting out for a round tomorrow! Do you know something I dont?

No I looked at the same met site but 3 degrees?? And that's during the day! Surely that'll mean sever frost. Think last sat and sun was down as 5 or 6 degrees and got mostly frosted off...

Myksyk

Yeah, I'd be very surprised if we're not all frosted off. Looked at Met Eireann ...

Today
Very cold overnight with a widespread frost, and some icy roads. A few fog patches also. Lowest temperatures of - 2 C to 3 C.

Tomorrow
Very cold tomorrow with sunny spells and scattered wintry showers. The showers of hail, sleet and snow will mainly affect parts of Ulster, Connacht and west Munster, where some will be heavy and possibly thundery. Temperatures will rise to between 3 C and 6 C, with frost setting in quickly again by evening.

Between the torrential rain today and freezing overnight I reckon we haven't hope!! And that's my optimistic assessment!

Mister Sifter

Christ, if there's frost following on from all this rain tonight then courses will be in some state tomorrow. I don't know why people would even bother playing in such conditions. Fair enough you might get a few holes of mediocre golf, but knowing the damage i was doing to the course i couldn't do it.

ShriekingSheet

At last a turn for the better - our place was open both days on full greens!