Todays Irish Independent

Terrier

From todays Irish Independent

More than 1,200 licensed firearms stolen since 2005

More than 1,200 legally held firearms have been stolen in less than four years -- mostly in burglaries from houses.
And fewer than 400 of them have been recovered by gardai so far .
New figures emerged last night, which highlighted the number of guns in circulation at present and their easy accessibility for crime gangs.


These are in addition to the imported firearms, which are brought into the country by drug trafficking networks as "sweeteners" with large heroin, cannabis and ecstasy hauls.


Statistics released by Justice Minister Dermot Ahern revealed that a total of 1,263 licensed firearms were stolen between 2005 and last month.
These included 27 handguns, which had been banned here up to 2004 when a series of judicial decisions revealed flaws in the existing legislation.
Mr Ahern now intends to bring in new legislation to ban handguns again, apart from special sporting categories which could be used in Olympic competitions.


Mr Ahern said he was unable to estimate how many of the stolen guns had been used in a criminal offence.
Outlining his concern at the growth in the number of licensed handguns in circulation, the minister said: "We now have about 1,800 handguns licensed, which was not as a result of a considered or deliberate public policy decision.


"I have concerns about the suitability of a large number of those for legitimate target shooting purposes and I am not going to permit the growth of a handgun culture,"he added.
It was against this background, he said, that he announced his proposals for reform, including a ban on new licences and a strict regime for renewal of existing licences.


These would be included in the Criminal Justice Bill which will be published in the coming weeks, he said

chem

Its death by a 1000 cuts. Im sick of it all now. Ban every gun in the country and see how it effects gun crime. And we now have a "handgun culture" will FF apoint a minister for handgun culture so they can be seen as "in touch" with the scumbags needs at a ground level?

Is this round two with the media? They got our handguns but now will they push for all guns to be taken in? Will they be as quick to publish a breakdown of the types of pistols stolen, if the question is asked?

rrpc

It's just the Indo reporting on the Minister's answer in the Dail yesterday.

You'll probably find that most of the papers have reported on it.

Nodin

wrote:

"I have concerns about the suitability of a large number of those for legitimate target shooting purposes and I am not going to permit the growth of a handgun culture,"he added.

Wunderbar. Dermot Ahern, author of Irish culture.

chem

I have concerns about the suitability of a large number of those for legitimate target shooting purposes.

So now we are all liers on our application forms? Shooting paper targets with a 9mm is not legit? He is more or less saying anyone shooting a large cal handgun must want to use it for something else!!!

rrpc

chem wrote: »

I have concerns about the suitability of a large number of those for legitimate target shooting purposes.

So now we are all liers on our application forms? Shooting paper targets with a 9mm is not legit? He is more or less saying anyone shooting a large cal handgun must want to use it for something else!!!

Well, there is this post which if true would be outside the target shooting use reason.

Not saying it's true, but certainly if word of that got to the Minister then he'd be justified in making the above statement.

Sparks

John Griffin's point on how he has been granted a licence for a pistol for hunting purposes (not so much hunting as administering a coup de grace if required) would seem to add additional complications here as well.

Rew

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-step-up-the-war-on-drugs-guns-and-terror-1562968.html

Gardai step up the war on drugs, guns and terror

Thursday December 04 2008

GARDAI are combating 139 drug trafficking networks and 16 gun-dealing gangs around the country as the war on crime scales unprecedented heights.

The full extent of the daily battle is outlined publicly for the first time today in a strategy document compiled by Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy and his senior advisers.

The document -- seen by the Irish Independent -- reveals the force has carried out more than 6,500 operations against drug dealers and users while achieving a 27pc increase in seizures.

According to garda sources, the drug trafficking networks, which have been profiled and identified at local and national level, include some of the largest criminal gangs in the country while others are smaller with only two or three members.

Gardai are also keeping a close eye on potential threats to national security by identifying and profiling 237 groups and individuals with suspected radical or terrorist links. These include dissident republicans and Islamic extremists, some of whom are living abroad but have been profiled as a precautionary measure.

The new information on the force's performance last year was supplied to the Dail's Public Accounts committee, following the appearance of Mr Murphy last month.

One of the operations listed in the document came to fruition yesterday when gardai, in conjunction with the PSNI, Welsh police and the British Serious Organised Crime Agency, smashed a human trafficking, prostitution and money-laundering racket, masterminded by a man from Co Carlow.

Operation Abbey highlighted the links between organised crime and human trafficking and 12 eastern Europeans and Brazilians, suspected of being exploited by the racketeers, have been interviewed by detectives.

New figures also produced by the Irish Independent today show that 1,263 legally held firearms were stolen between 2005 and last month and, so far, only 373 have been recovered.

The stolen haul included 27 handguns, which became available to the public after existing legislation was found to be flawed in 2004. New legislation will now outlaw all handguns, except those for possible use in Olympic competitions.

Gardai were boosted by a 46pc rise in the number of intelligence sources last year as part of efforts to target, detect and prevent crime. The secret informants provided details to their garda handlers, which led to more than 2,700 reports being submitted to the crime and security division.

Subversive

The document also shows that:

- Gardai have identified and profiled 11 groups with "criminal and subversive" links, as well as 360 individuals.

- Gardai have identified and profiled three human trafficking networks in this country -- who are responsible for prostitution and forced labour.

- There have been 38,888 intelligence exchanges with international law enforcement agencies.

- There have been 623 "Hot Spots" identified across the country which are considered to be high risk areas for public order problems.

- Around 179 publicans have been prosecuted for allowing drunkenness on the premises -- an offence introduced five years ago.

- There were 225 offences of racist crime recorded last year.

The document details the force's eight "strategic goals" in areas such as crime, traffic, national security and public order -- and what action was taken to achieve them last year.

It shows that gardai failed to achieve a target of decreasing the number of incidents involving the use of firearms last year -- which instead increased by 11pc.

Targets to reduce the level of thefts from vehicles (up 9pc) and shops (up 2pc) were also missed last year. But gardai exceeded their targets for seizures of illegal drugs (27pc increase instead of 5pc), for seizures of firearms (17pc increase instead of 3pc ) and for burglaries (down by 5pc instead of a targeted 2pc decrease).

According to the section on the goal of "traffic and road safety", the 920-strong Garda Traffic Corps succeeded in achieving a 10pc increase in detections for a variety of offences last year including: drink driving, drug driving, dangerous driving, speeding and failing to wear a seatbelt.

As part of the strategic goal to improve public order, gardai took court proceedings against 86 individuals or companies for selling alcohol to underage drinkers last year. There were also 23 applications to close down pubs or off-licences.

The force is also making efforts to reach out to new communities and last year held more than 1,000 meetings with different ethnic and cultural groups. It is also making interpreters available to its members, as well as language training in Chinese, Romanian, Polish and Arabic. But so far, only 18 members of the 14,000-strong force are from ethnic communities, while there are 11 ethnic members in the 250-strong Garda Reserve.

- Michael Brennan and Tom Brady

chem

The force is also making efforts to reach out to new communities and last year held more than 1,000 meetings with different ethnic and cultural groups.

Can we not say we are a cultural group? Where is the hand reaching out to us as a minority group?

Oh wait! We are in the drug dealing, murdering, scumbag group because we have licenced guns and the culture we have is a handgun culture! Or so we`ve been told by minister Ahern(ea)

Terrier

Sparks wrote: »

John Griffin's point on how he has been granted a licence for a pistol for hunting purposes (not so much hunting as administering a coup de grace if required) would seem to add additional complications here as well.

I was at a recent talk by Des Croftin, and the question about granting pistol licenses for dispatch of deer was asked. To which Des replied that a pistol cannot be used for dispatch as somewhere within the law it states that a deer can only be shot with a firearm with a certain barrel length (can remember the figure but pistols don't qualify).

jwshooter

Terrier wrote: »

I was at a recent talk by Des Croftin, and the question about granting pistol licenses for dispatch of deer was asked. To which Des replied that a pistol cannot be used for dispatch as somewhere within the law it states that a deer can only be shot with a firearm with a certain barrel length (can remember the figure but pistols don't qualify).

des is wrong .

meathstevie

Des is wrong indeed. It is illegal to hunt deer with a firearm that doesn't fit the criteria in relation to calibre and type but it isn't illegal to dispatch a wounded deer with a firearm that doesn't meet the requirements for hunting.
Let's say I came upon a deer in a field this afternoon that's after being hit by a car previously and has two broken legs but managed to drag itself of the public road. I would be doing nothing wrong shooting it in the head from a short distance with a nr 5 cartridge with the shotgun as I'm putting it out of it's misery and at no time did I hunt it.

TargetWidow

I know that he said "licenced firearms" but how many of the 27 handguns stolen since 2005 were airsoft and are being used to pad out the figures. You can often see the footage on the news of garda "hauls" of illegal firearms confiscated and there are always a few airsoft in the picture because Joe Public wont know the difference and it looks like more guns.:(

jwshooter

meathstevie wrote: »

Des is wrong indeed. It is illegal to hunt deer with a firearm that doesn't fit the criteria in relation to calibre and type but it isn't illegal to dispatch a wounded deer with a firearm that doesn't meet the requirements for hunting.
Let's say I came upon a deer in a field this afternoon that's after being hit by a car previously and has two broken legs but managed to drag itself of the public road. I would be doing nothing wrong shooting it in the head from a short distance with a nr 5 cartridge with the shotgun as I'm putting it out of it's misery and at no time did I hunt it.

you can kill a injured deer by any legal means, i was hunting one morning this week when i heard a almighty squeal from just behind me , my dog caught a sika knobbier . she was well stuck in when i got back to her .the knobbier was a bag of bones i put her sitting and i gave him a quick look over he was un marked but weak . i cut the atlas joint inserted my knife into this head ,he was dead in a second

Hivemind187

TargetWidow wrote: »

I know that he said "licenced firearms" but how many of the 27 handguns stolen since 2005 were airsoft and are being used to pad out the figures. You can often see the footage on the news of garda "hauls" of illegal firearms confiscated and there are always a few airsoft in the picture because Joe Public wont know the difference and it looks like more guns.:(

None I'd say. The legal definition of a firearm precludes the inclusion of airsoft devices in that list. Moreover, airsoft kit doesnt require a license so they wouldnt have any record of it on the license register (assuming one is kept). If they were to pad out the figures it would be spotted a mile off by the opposition and canny journos looking to bash Ahern for a headline.

You're right about the piccies though, that does chaff a bit.

Grizzly 45

It has already been done,this padding out of figures.Check back thru this post somwhere in there is a table of Garda recoverd "firearms".In there there is somthing like 30 replicas[not defined] blank firers[not defimned] and deactivated firearms.Nobody picked up on it in the press.

TargetWidow

There you go! As if they're not capable of dirty pool!:rolleyes:
So if they can claim replicas, de-activateds and airsoft as "recovered" then they are likely to have included these in the list of "licenced firearms" stolen too. All we need now is to get the breakdown on the exact nature of the handguns stolen. Tom McGurk will have a field day if he picks this up. Anyone for a game of leaders questions?

chem

Is it also abit odd, that a minister should write into the paper, to explain himself? Can he feel the turn of the tide? Sounds like a man trying to believe his own BS to me!

Hivemind187

Heh, well if they have claimed airsoft kit as part of recovered firearms then they have lied in an extremely foolish way.

This would not suprise me.