I will never vote Green again

spadder

This is what we get:

EPA grants Poolbeg incinerator licence

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1202/incinerator.html

Gormless should resign.

jim o doom

Agree totally - I also would be voting for the Greens to be renamed to the "PD's Mk II" as their "credibility" (as if they had any) is being chronically eroded by their time spent in government with the reliably criminal fianna fail.

jimmysull

If you expected any differently you were deluded.
John Gormley campaigned against the M3 route and then was a supporter of it a few weeks later when he was appointed to his higher carbon footprint role of minister. Poolbeg is no different. The Greens are now just an implementor of FF policies, but would have you believe that they are "making great progress in their own departments" (the evidence suggests otherwise)

Bottom line is, if we continue to elect FF to power, whatever the other colours in their version of a rainbow coalition, we will continue to get FF policies.
The Bertie Bubble has burst, it's time for it's inflators to be consigned to history

Nukem

Dunno seems that they have incorporated a large amount of BAT with district heating and steam turbines

http://www.epa.ie/whatwedo/licensing/waste/poolbeg/

robtri

just had a glance over the appoval from the EPA and some other background stuff, whats the issue with this???
surely this is more "green" than burying it in the ground or shipping it off to another country???

BendiBus

I've no particular problem with the incenerator and I'm glad we've got a pragmatic Green minister rather than a dreamer tree-hugger, but my real concern is the risk it will generate a demand for the production of waste.

One of the most controversial aspects of the plant is a clause in the contract which states the council must provide the plant operator with a specified amount of waste or pay if this target is not achieved.

The council is currently the subject of legal action in the High Court from independent waste collectors Panda waste services and Greenstar over proposed changes on how collection services are regulated.

fits

Really I do not know how you can get any greener than waste disposal at source and using it for energy and heat generation.

If anyone can suggest a 'greener' alternative, I'd like to hear it.

ChocolateSauce

Yeah, incineration of rubbish is reusing! Isn't that a hippie idea?

Besides, the greens also do have their successes, you're just homing in on their failures, which are big, but don't forget they amount to nothing more than the ideological tip of the FF iceberg and their influence is limited.

blackbox

fits wrote: »

Really I do not know how you can get any greener than waste disposal at source and using it for energy and heat generation.

If anyone can suggest a 'greener' alternative, I'd like to hear it.

+1

I wouldn't vote for Gormley (if he was in my constituency) because he is still trying to oppose this optimal environmentally friendly solution.

Basically, he's a twit who doesn't relate to the real world.

In fairness, not all the greens are as incapable as he is. Eamon Ryan seems to be a bit more sensible, despite progress on broadband seems being slow to non-existant.

jim o doom

Either on RTE's website or breakingnews.ie yesterday (don't have a link, it would be super sound if someone else could find it.. can't do searches in work ) posted that John Gormally had warned the corpo or council or whoever is building poolbeg, to not continue until it had been further investigated. And you know they are going to go ahead, because john gormally has about as much POWER in government as the average genital crab.

spadder

jim o doom wrote: »

And you know they are going to go ahead, because john gormally has about as much POWER in government as the average genital crab.

FF being the Genital

shaywest

never again (sometimes i could almost weep that i swallowed all their horse****e and actually voted for them)
what thanks did i get ?
motoring costs up a grand a year,green taxes up the ying yang.
and as a small car repairer i have to spend thousands year on (fossil) fuel to dry the overpriced water based paints they foisted on us.
worst of all is the knowledge that in all propabilities none of these measures will help the environment one little bit.

Húrin

fits wrote: »

Really I do not know how you can get any greener than waste disposal at source and using it for energy and heat generation.

If anyone can suggest a 'greener' alternative, I'd like to hear it.

Mechanical Biological Treatment.

Húrin

spadder wrote: »

This is what we get:

EPA grants Poolbeg incinerator licence

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1202/incinerator.html

Gormless should resign.

I agree, it's like his catchphrase now is "my hands were tied". If the Greens aren't willing to be pro-environment, me and lots of others will gladly vote Labour, or whoever else seems better. The Greens imagine that they have a monopoly on environmental policy. So wrong!

mikep

Húrin wrote: »

Mechanical Biological Treatment.

Are there any examples of MBT processes being operated here in ireland??

fits

Húrin wrote: »

Mechanical Biological Treatment.

And why is it so much better? I dont know anything about it.

But with all the humming and hawing and nimbyism, nothing will ever get done. It would probably take another ten years to get it through the planning process and in the meantime we've a huge waste problem.

I doubt theres a better alternative to whats planned. Its local, reducing transport related emissions. The waste will be incinerated and used to generated heat and electricity and the exhaust gases will be scrubbed so that they'll be cleaner than ambient air. I understand that local people have been through it with the WWT plant. And that was the product of desperate management by Dublin City Council over which heads should have rolled. But that experience does not mean that this is not a good idea.

brianthebard

robtri wrote: »

just had a glance over the appoval from the EPA and some other background stuff, whats the issue with this???
surely this is more "green" than burying it in the ground or shipping it off to another country???

QFT. It needed to be done, there's always going to be waste that can't be recycled.

BendiBus wrote: »

I've no particular problem with the incenerator and I'm glad we've got a pragmatic Green minister rather than a dreamer tree-hugger, but my real concern is the risk it will generate a demand for the production of waste.

I think you've got it backwards, wasn't opposing this incinerator dreamer Gormley's pet project?

BendiBus

brianthebard wrote: »

I think you've got it backwards, wasn't opposing this incinerator dreamer Gormley's pet project?

Only publically!

derry

If the rubbish incinerator runs badly for even one day the pollution will last decades even centuries

The princible is simple if you burn rubbish at a extremly high temperature there is no nasty chemical emmisions only CO2 and water vapour

If for some reason the temperature is too low then plastics will form extremly toxic PCB chemical families and other toxic chemical families crap


Once those chemicals are emmitted from the smoke because the fire is faalty they then rain down on us they stay in the soil for eons and get into the food chain or we breath them in with the dust.Those chemicals never break down and accumulate in humans body fat which helps create nasty cancers and other health issues

Now we all the ability of the FF regime to keep quite if the smoke stack is faulty until months later when we would all be swimming in chemical bath tub of these nasty chemicals

Even the Belguims and French had issues and their plants failed and the regimes inpower there said nothing so as to save money so its a no brainer once we have this incinerator plant we will all within twenty miles of the incinerator plant have a chemical rain fall on us sooner or later probably sooner

We only got to look the Ringend sewage plant to see how badly that is running and the RAW effluent that is dumped in Dublin bay every few weeks

To stop this plant you need to show the richer scallywags in Dalkey or D4 or Howth that the chemical ran will hit them as much as not so well of Ringend

Then the project has chance to be stopped within the city limits



Derry

ART6

I operate in the waste disposal industry as a process engineer designing MBT plants among other things. I am not anti-incineration, having once been deputy chief engineer at the largest one in Europe at the time. However, there is a problem. If we carry on with the present levels of household recycling, for example putting all packaging wastes in a recycling bag, then the residual wastes going to the incinerator will no longer have sufficient calorific value to maintain the furnace temperatures necessary to prevent dioxins and furans (850 deg.C for two seconds -- EU Waste Incineration Directive). That means that alternative sources of energy will be needed. And what will those alternative sources be?

treviesweets

fits wrote: »

Really I do not know how you can get any greener than waste disposal at source and using it for energy and heat generation.

If anyone can suggest a 'greener' alternative, I'd like to hear it.

How about really thinking about what we're doing for once and eliminating the concept of waste altogether?

www.mcdonough.com.....

fits

hmm. and what are we going with the waste until this wonderful new world becomes a reality?

Ideas like that are great but you have to be a realist with current conditions too.

dresden8

Greens preside over destruction of public transport.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1217/cie.html

CIÉ is to increase fares, reduce the frequency of its services, and withdraw some routes altogether, after sustaining massive losses.

Bye Bye Gormley.

P. Breathnach

dresden8 wrote: »

Greens preside over destruction of public transport.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1217/cie.html



Bye Bye Gormley.

dresden8, your vote is your own, to use wisely or foolishly as you choose..

But it is at least unfair, and I think it is dishonest, to fix this thing on John Gormley when Noel Dempsey is the Minister in the area, and it is Noel Dempsey who is mentioned in the report you cite.

dresden8

P. Breathnach wrote: »

dresden8, your vote is your own, to use wisely or foolishly as you choose..

But it is at least unfair, and I think it is dishonest, to fix this thing on John Gormley when Noel Dempsey is the Minister in the area, and it is Noel Dempsey who is mentioned in the report you cite.

Apparently they are also presiding over the death of collective cabinet responsibility.

Mikel

You'd have to be hopelessly naive to have expected any different from the Greens.
The writing was on the wall from the start when Sargent said he would rather resign than go into coalition with FF, then agreed to it and cheerfully resigned, while acting as if he was a man of principle.
Anyone who didn't see that for the power grabbing act worthy of Ahern himself that it was.......well that's their problem.

dRNk SAnTA

Why exactly do you not believe Gormley when he says he can't do anything about it? Why do you think he wants this to go ahead? It could obviously cost him his own seat.

dresden8

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

Why exactly do you not believe Gormley when he says he can't do anything about it? Why do you think he wants this to go ahead? It could obviously cost him his own seat.

It appears Gormley can't do anything about anything.

Those pesky FF'ers done for Tara and he can't do anything about that, incineration - nothing to do with me guv! Public transport - Fuck it, I've got me bike and me car!

FF'ers blame the greens, the greens blame FF, and everybody blames Harney.

Harney of course blames the HSE.

Some government that is.

Judgement Day

Too little too late to save the Greens!!

If Gormless Gormley thinks scrapping these useless machines is going to save the party from extermination come the local and, indeed, the next General election he is seriously mistaken.

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

The last paragraph from Animal Farm by George Orwell.

djpbarry

derry wrote: »

Even the Belguims and French had issues and their plants failed and the regimes inpower there said nothing so as to save money so its a no brainer once we have this incinerator plant we will all within twenty miles of the incinerator plant have a chemical rain fall on us sooner or later probably sooner

Yeah, because all the other incinerators in the world, particularly those on Europe, are slowly poisoning their respective local populations, aren’t they?

derry wrote: »

We only got to look the Ringend sewage plant to see how badly that is running and the RAW effluent that is dumped in Dublin bay every few weeks

So, because there are questions surrounding a sewage treatment plant in Ringsend, the government is going to knowingly poison people with incinerator emissions?

treviesweets wrote: »

How about really thinking about what we're doing for once and eliminating the concept of waste altogether?

Because it’s practically impossible? 0% waste implies 100% efficiency.