Brave Inca???????

jaymaconetwo

Want to back Brave Inca Ante Post for the champion hurdle in March but have noted he is in the betting for the World hurdle.Has anybody hearld if Colm Murphy has said which race he is going for?
16/1 for the World and 20/1 for the Champion.

lester76

Im not sure of which route the connection will take,but i was at fairyhouse & brave looked to me like he was carrying a bit of weight,i was thinking he cant be race fit surely.But my god he ran his heart out and at 12-1:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: he sure did colm murphy proud. SUPER HORSE HE IS:) I still fancy sizing europe for the champion all going well he come swing at the top of the hill

Frankie Lee

At the moment I'd still fancy Sublimity,
I wonder if its time now for Harchibald to come back to form, now that would make things interesting.

bit of a bogey

Great to see a good run out of brave inca. That run would have done him the world of good. Personally I couldnt see brave inca go for the world hurdle. I didnt think he got the trip at all in punchestown two years ago. I reckon that pretty much made their minds up!? 2m4 i say is ideal. Harchibald will never win a champion hurdle but sublimity and sizing europe are still massive threats! I think there may be too much fuss about binocular at this stage!

bit of a bogey

By the way, you can get 43/1 on brave inca for the champion hurdle on betfair!

Frankie Lee

I don't rate Binocular either as a champion hurdle horse at the moment but I could be proved wrong. Chomba Womba, Takeroc and not forgetting Katchit are the horses to beat by the looks of things.

fr wishy washy

I don't think they'd go for the Champion Hurdle again as he just wouldn't have the pace,don't be surprised if he has a go at the World Hurdle as he travelled like a dream Sunday.

bit of a bogey

I completely get what your saying but i think that brave inca always has the ability to turn it ino a real war of attrition. He loses that trait over 3miles. I guess the christmas period will tell us what their intentions and chances are. It will be intersting to see where he's entered next time as he should be close to his peak

Frazzled

bit of a bogey wrote: »

I completely get what your saying but i think that brave inca always has the ability to turn it ino a real war of attrition. He loses that trait over 3miles. I guess the christmas period will tell us what their intentions and chances are. It will be intersting to see where he's entered next time as he should be close to his peak

Might be an idea to avoid Cheltenham altogether and keep him freash for the Aintree hurdle. Whether he should be risked on such an undulating track in a race such as the champion is open to debate?

hiscan

brave inca won't win the champion hurdle he'll be too old he's eleven next year

RichieLawlor

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I wonder if its time now for Harchibald to come back to form

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I don't rate Binocular either as a champion hurdle horse at the moment but I could be proved wrong. Chomba Womba, Takeroc and not forgetting Katchit are the horses to beat by the looks of things.

All these statements are complete tripe

BobbyD10

RichieLawlor wrote: »

All these statements are complete tripe

Well Takeroc is 869/1 on betfair if anyone fancies it

bit of a bogey

BobbyD10 wrote: »

Well Takeroc is 869/1 on betfair if anyone fancies it

GET ON NOW!

chinguetti

Agree that Binocular isn't going to win the Champion Hurdle. Wins nothing races and learns nothing as not challenged.

Brave Inca has a better chance but may 'bounce' the next day which will knock him back. He ran too well yesterday and if he finished 4th or 5th, i'ld be more eager to back him. Fear he hit the bottom as he ran his heart out. After Christmas we should know more who'll win.

Catch Me who likes a longer distance might last up the hill in an always crazy pace.

Frankie Lee

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I don't rate Binocular either as a champion hurdle horse at the moment but I could be proved wrong. Chomba Womba, Takeroc and not forgetting Katchit are the horses to beat by the looks of things.

**** I forgot that race a couple of months ago where Chomba Womba and Takeroc comfortably beat Katchit was a handicap, nevermind.

I still think Chomba Womba has a great chance.

Frazzled

Frankie Lee wrote: »

**** I forgot that race a couple of months ago where Chomba Womba and Takeroc comfortably beat Katchit was a handicap, nevermind.

I still think Chomba Womba has a great chance.

Chomba Womba was receiving 18lbs that day and Takeroc was receiving 19lbs on a track that was never going to play to the strengths of Katchit. Chomba Womba has done well since but I cannot see her winning a champion hurdle. Takeroc has practically no chance and is very unlikely to run in the race. I would guess that his main target is the Victor Chandler Chase at Ascot, where Twist Magic will probably help keep his weight down.

abouttobebanned

Can't believe people are still mentioning Harchibald. Pathetic.

Frankie Lee

I mentioned Harchibald tongue in cheek as we have already seen Brave Inca and Hardy run well this season.

RichieLawlor

chinguetti wrote: »

Agree that Binocular isn't going to win the Champion Hurdle. Wins nothing races and learns nothing as not challenged.

Brave Inca has a better chance but may 'bounce' the next day which will knock him back. He ran too well yesterday and if he finished 4th or 5th, i'ld be more eager to back him. Fear he hit the bottom as he ran his heart out. After Christmas we should know more who'll win.

Catch Me who likes a longer distance might last up the hill in an always crazy pace.

another idiotic post. ive nearly had enough of this forum :mad:

First of all Binocular only had a pipe opener last time so we learned nothin new and from his demolition job of the triumph hurdle winner which is not a nothing race he looks a really hot prospect.

Brave Inca always runs like that. Do you ever watch horse racing.

And Catch me is not an out and out stayer, he'll most likely fall away up the hill over a fast paced three miles at prestbury park.

Thats the worst post ive come accross in ages

Cantoris

bit of a bogey wrote: »

Great to see a good run out of brave inca. That run would have done him the world of good. Personally I couldnt see brave inca go for the world hurdle. I didnt think he got the trip at all in punchestown two years ago. I reckon that pretty much made their minds up!?

We have not doubt he will get three miles. At Punchestown he was carrying his injury which he more than likely had at Cheltenham as he drifted left on the run in and that was the leg which he strained. We wouldn't have a problem stepping up in trip with him but won't do it until we have to. He will go for the Crimbo hurdle and depending on that, we will make a choice of which way to go. Our current preference would be to stick to two miles until he shows us he wants further. His work is sharp so no reason to think he needs further at the moment and I don't see a great bunch of horses around at the mo unless something improves so why not stick with the two mile route?

chinguetti

RichieLawlor, i am entitled to my opinion as much as the next man or woman and if you disagree, well thats fine.

I think Binocular isn't going to win in March and will be found out in a 'real' race. Brave Inca is indeed a battling horse and has been for years. However he ran his guts out in my opinion and ran too good for his first run. Seen it many times before from a horse coming back from a long injury, run a cracking first race and then bomb the next day. Again thats my opinion. Catch Me might win the Champion, Hardy did and he won over 2m 5f the previous year.Time will tell whether i'm right or wrong on all three.

Also i've been watching racing with the last 25 years in the 4 countries where i lived and have been right on occasions and i've been wrong on occasions. Ask my wallet cause thats why i stake me opinion, not attacking people by calling them idiots on a keyboard. That isn't going to stop me from having an opinion on here and people can agree or disagree with me.:)

rynners

chinguetti wrote: »

RichieLawlor, i am entitled to my opinion as much as the next man or woman and if you disagree, well thats fine.

I think Binocular isn't going to win in March and will be found out in a 'real' race. Brave Inca is indeed a battling horse and has been for years. However he ran his guts out in my opinion and ran too good for his first run. Seen it many times before from a horse coming back from a long injury, run a cracking first race and then bomb the next day. Again thats my opinion. Catch Me might win the Champion, Hardy did and he won over 2m 5f the previous year.Time will tell whether i'm right or wrong on all three.

Also i've been watching racing with the last 25 years in the 4 countries where i lived and have been right on occasions and i've been wrong on occasions. Ask my wallet cause thats why i stake me opinion, not attacking people by calling them idiots on a keyboard. That isn't going to stop me from having an opinion on here and people can agree or disagree with me.:)

Richie I have to side with Chiguetti here. It's not fair to be calling people idiots and making them feel bad about their posts. You may have a greater knowledge and could have handled it differently by saying something like "I have to disagree" or similar. My own knowledge is not top notch, but it doesn't have to be to post here and if people slated me from the start I might have just left the forum alone and to be fair I've posted an awful lot the last couple of months. As well as that you don't gain kudos with anyone by slating the very forum which you post in..

careca

Yep, have to agree with Rynners also, everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how much it differs. As long as there are horses racing every second person will take something different from a race. Course ye could always have a wager on it

Cantoris - are you in the syndicate that owns Brave Inca?? If so, congrats on him, an absolute amazing horse. I was in Cheltenham when he won the supreme (didn't back him) and again two years later when he won the Champion (backed him that day). I honestly think he was the only horse that could have seen off Hardy and then have the heart to pull it out again when Macs Joy came at him in that Champion. My hat went twenty feet in the air when he crossed the line (never saw it again). Cracking day.

Frazzled

rynners wrote: »

Richie I have to side with Chiguetti here. It's not fair to be calling people idiots and making them feel bad about their posts. You may have a greater knowledge and could have handled it differently by saying something like "I have to disagree" or similar. My own knowledge is not top notch, but it doesn't have to be to post here and if people slated me from the start I might have just left the forum alone and to be fair I've posted an awful lot the last couple of months. As well as that you don't gain kudos with anyone by slating the very forum which you post in..

Fair point rynners and one that I agree with totally.

Nobody is under any obligation to post on here and the more sniping that is done when someone does, the less posts and opinions we are likely to see forthcoming.

When looking at the two posts, I am confused to as to where the World Hurdle came into it for Catch Me, but I will put down to a typo by Richie rather than a case of not knowing what distance the champion hurdle is run over:)

Binocular is certainly a live contender for this contest, but still has a bit to prove at this stage. He is speedily bred with the Guineas runner up (in the worst renewal I can ever recall on the July course) as his sire and the Pistolet Bleu influence on the dam side suggests that 2miles is as far as he wants.So far his winning displays have been on speed favouring tracks such as Aintree and Kempton and a flattish tracks such as Ascot and Haydock. Ascot may well fall into the speed favouring category as well, but I don't necessarily regard it as such. The victory over Celestial Halo at Aintree was impressive, but that track was never going to play to the strengths of the Nicholls horse, so the precise merit of the form could bee questionable. His close rival from the Kempton race (Pierre Luniare) also bolted up at Aintree and it was obvious that both were suited by the demands of their particular races.

Binocular ran very well at Cheltenham, but traded very short in running and my question is did he stay up the hill strongly enough or is Captain Cee Bee really that good? I would not be dogmatic about his stamina in the context of a fast run champion hurdle (not always the case - Sublimity's win for example) but this issue still has to be tested and proven? The Bula (I refuse to rename it) should provide us with a better idea in this regard, but it can be run at a crawl so could prove inconclusive?

Regarding Brave Inca's run at the weekend, I don't agree that he always runs like he did on Sunday. Granted he is always there at the business end of a race, but the manner in which he found himself in contention was very different to the usual way that his races shape up. Inca traditionally is a very hard ride, races lazily and the jockey has to pump him along for a lot of the journey. This has been especially evident in his races at Fairyhouse;

Despite being a handicap good thing he had to be vigorously ridden to beat Honest Your Honour - This was his seasonal debut.

His two defeats in the Hattons Grace behind Solerina were tough affairs where he was under the pump for a lot of the race.

His victory in 2006 over Rosaker was achieved in a manner that, if he was any other horsem you would think that he would be gone for the year after such a struggle.

In contrast, on Sunday he travelled beautifully for most of the race. The only time he was asked a question was for a few strides down the back when he made his only jumping error. The only other times that I have seen him travel like this were when he fell at Aintree and to a certain extent, when he beat Iktitaf at Leopardstown. He looked to me as though he had benefitted from his break from such hard training and tough battles and was fresher than he has been in a long time. Whether he bounces is open to debate, as he has 4 weeks to get over this race and the trainer knows him inside out. I would prefer to see him wait for the Irish champion, but the horse usually takes his races very well.

I don't see any reason to step him up to staying distances and the Aintree hurdle looks like the best option when he does step up in trip.

I have not pigeon holed Catch Me into any category at the moment. I don't see him as a staying hurdle candidate, but I doubt whether he is up to winning or being placed in a Champion hurdle. There are a few more races to be won with him this year, but whether he will take his place at the top altar is debatable?

Regarding the World Hurdle, I am firmly in the Punchestowns camp. Brilliant win last time which has been franked by the Hobbs horse. Official ratings give him something to find, but where does his improvement end? This is not a strong contest, especially if Drever does not come back. Kasbah has improved on the flat this year, but he is not the strongest of stayers in my view, despite his run last year and this race is ripe for a new arrival to take the prize.

chinguetti

Cantoris, if you own any part of Brave Inca, you are lucky and he's been lucky with my money too. He's been a cracker of a horse and i hope he doesn't 'bounce' in Leopardstown the next day. Think you're right to say that the 2 milers aren't a great bunch from what we've seen.

rynners

nice post frazzled

eoghan104

RichieLawlor wrote: »

another idiotic post. ive nearly had enough of this forum :mad:

First of all Binocular only had a pipe opener last time so we learned nothin new and from his demolition job of the triumph hurdle winner which is not a nothing race he looks a really hot prospect.

Brave Inca always runs like that. Do you ever watch horse racing.

And Catch me is not an out and out stayer, he'll most likely fall away up the hill over a fast paced three miles at prestbury park.

Thats the worst post ive come accross in ages

This attitude is what stops alot of people posting on the HR forum.

If you have had enough of this forum like you say then F**k off somewhere else.

chinguetti

rynners, careca, frazzled and eoghan104 thanks for believing, like me, that we are all entitled to an opinion. I'm no expert like some of the people on here but i might post the odd decent comment now and again.:D

Does anyone think that Sizing Europe has been ignored a bit on all the talk for the Champion Hurdle? Hardy didn't frank his form on Sunday from my reading.

Frankie Lee

I have made a couple of stupid points on this thread which I apoligised for but still believe everyone should be entitled to an opinion without being put down.

On Sizing Europe I would worry a bit about him, he will need to improve a lot come march.

careca

chinguetti wrote: »

Does anyone think that Sizing Europe has been ignored a bit on all the talk for the Champion Hurdle? Hardy didn't frank his form on Sunday from my reading.

He'll need to get back to his AIG champion form to have a chance but he could do if he comes on for the last run. He was still tanking at the top of the hill in Cheltenham and he'd be the one I fancy at the moment (for whats that worth )

rynners

chinguetti wrote: »

rynners, careca, frazzled and eoghan104 thanks for believing, like me, that we are all entitled to an opinion. I'm no expert like some of the people on here but i might post the odd decent comment now and again.:D

Does anyone think that Sizing Europe has been ignored a bit on all the talk for the Champion Hurdle? Hardy didn't frank his form on Sunday from my reading.

Hardy doesn't need to frank his form imo, if he was to do it in march it'd be because it was the champion hurdle. In saying that if he doesn't keep his end up until then he might not be considered for it by his trainer. Which would be a pity as I think he has an outside chance of pulling it off on the day regardless of recent form so long as he's fit and well with a recent spin. (in other words the day that's in it might give this battler the fire in his belly to win)... maybe people think I'm mad thinking like this..

Cantoris

careca wrote: »

Cantoris - are you in the syndicate that owns Brave Inca??

Yes he was our first horse and a great thrill. We now have a few more through my sydnciate business which Hobart kindly let me put in in the sticky on websites. They are not quite so good but should keep us going for the season. But great to have himself back and looking forward to the rest of the season now.

rynners

Cantoris wrote: »

Yes he was our first horse and a great thrill. We now have a few more through my sydnciate business which Hobart kindly let me put in in the sticky on websites. They are not quite so good but should keep us going for the season. But great to have himself back and looking forward to the rest of the season now.

congrats

bit of a bogey

Frankie Lee wrote: »

On Sizing Europe I would worry a bit about him, he will need to improve a lot come march.

I think sizing europes chances are very much alive for cheltenham. His performance in last years Irish champion hurdle showed he's oozing class. I really feal that performace would up there the Istabraaqs and the likes. Very impressive 3min 50sec in tacky conditions at leopardstown. Showed he can battle too. He injured himelf at cheltenham next time out so that run can be ignored. When he ran 2nd to hardy last time he was only out for a blow out. He didnt get home. De Bromhead wasnt going to break him up first time back! I also think dessie hughes and connections were so thrilled with hardys performance(and rightly so) that they rushed him back too soon at fairyhouse and he didnt do himself justice. Thats just my opinion. I certainly woudnt be worried about sizing europe. If he gets to cheltenham healthy, he'll be in the mix! Anyone not agree?

kenco

^^ Id agree with you on Sizing Europe I think he has a hell of a chance and was looking great for most of the trip last year (i thought he hadnt a hope but proved me wrong). He will definately have come on from the last run.

Gearing up for a hell of race next March if the Irish horses keep in good nick. There is likely to be 3 former winners and a slew of pretenders. Through a few English into the mix and its going to be a tough one to pick a winner.

BobbyD10

Anyone think the English have a chance at keeping the Champion at home, I have a likely for Punjabi and be interesting to see how he gets on at Wetherby tomorrow weather permitting.

meriwether

BobbyD10 wrote: »

Anyone think the English have a chance at keeping the Champion at home, I have a likely for Punjabi and be interesting to see how he gets on at Wetherby tomorrow weather permitting.

Binocular is going to win this IMO. We are looking at the new Istabraq.

Last years juvenile form (Triumph, Fred Winter) isn't worth a wet fart.

You can cut Pierrot Lunaire, Crack Away J, Ashkazar and Celestial Halo.
Binocular has them on Aintree anway.

The Supreme Novices is where its at.

Bearing in mind Bin got 8lb, he has the following held:

Snap Tie (beats Katchit)
Numide (Greatwood)
Blue Bajan (wasn't disgraced today at all)
Khyber Kim (touched off in Gerry Felden giving something like 17lb to Henelns Vision).
Kalahari King has won 2 novice chases.
Sentry Duty won a hot handicap hurdle.

Snap T got 3lb off Katchit, and won by .5 Length - on level weights he is a length behind Katchit.

Taking into account Binoculars form last year puts him in the top 3, you can expect an improvement as he ages 4-5.

Its all there boys in black and white.

Expect him to piss the Boylesports home, and be now bigger than 2/1 going into January.

Sizing Europe for second, Sublimity for third.

rynners

All dem der horses should be made into sausages so we can have a fry up in the morning..

meriwether

meriwether wrote: »

Binocular is going to win this IMO. We are looking at the new Istabraq.

Last years juvenile form (Triumph, Fred Winter) isn't worth a wet fart.

You can cut Pierrot Lunaire, Crack Away J, Ashkazar and Celestial Halo.
Binocular has them on Aintree anway.

The Supreme Novices is where its at.

Bearing in mind Bin got 8lb, he has the following held:

Snap Tie (beats Katchit)
Numide (Greatwood)
Blue Bajan (wasn't disgraced today at all)
Khyber Kim (touched off in Gerry Felden giving something like 17lb to Henelns Vision).
Kalahari King has won 2 novice chases.
Sentry Duty won a hot handicap hurdle.

Snap T got 3lb off Katchit, and won by .5 Length - on level weights he is a length behind Katchit.

Taking into account Binoculars form last year puts him in the top 3, you can expect an improvement as he ages 4-5.

Its all there boys in black and white.

Expect him to piss the Boylesports home, and be now bigger than 2/1 going into January.

Sizing Europe for second, Sublimity for third.

If I could kiss my own arse, I actually would. (However the less said about my Pettifour prediction the better!;))

We have seen the winner of the Champion Hurdle. Over and out.

RichieLawlor

meriwether wrote: »

If I could kiss my own arse, I actually would. (However the less said about my Pettifour prediction the better!;))

We have seen the winner of the Champion Hurdle. Over and out.

Captain Cee Bee must be some horse, giving Binocular 8lbs and a cosy beating and on ground he didnt like.

mdwexford

lol hadnt read this thread before, amusing.

meriwether

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Captain Cee Bee must be some horse, giving Binocular 8lbs and a cosy beating and on ground he didnt like.

He must. Its a terrible pity he's injured.

corny

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Captain Cee Bee must be some horse, giving Binocular 8lbs and a cosy beating and on ground he didnt like.

In fairness Binocular got there far too early and it might have been different had he waited a bit more. Connections learned a huge amount from that race.

Captain Cee Bee is still a hell of a horse. Hope he gets back on track next season

Colonel Sanders

I was very bullish about sizing europe earlier in the season and while nothing has changed my mind with regard to him coming back as good as ever this was a huge performance from Binocular. My 12/1 about sizing europe is still a decent bet but doesn't look as good as it did saturday morning

chinguetti

So where do we all stand on the Champion Hurdle after the mid season races? Binocular is way too short 10 weeks out in my opinion but what can beat him? If i were to pick two i would offer Sublimity and Punjabi.

Sizing Europe looks like something's wrong with him from today's race apart from the stone bruise. Brave Inca would be a great bet for a place though.

lester76

Sizing Europe looks like something's wrong with him . id have to agree the yard was bullish up to friday/saturday there is more then a stone bruise. Didnt the little horse in 2nd (name not sure) run a super race only cost 1800 at the sales. Soo where does my money go :mad: stays in wallet;)

kenco

The connections of Brave Inca are apparently happy with the run and are going to keep him at 2M. I think I said here before that imo he is a very good place bet for the Champion not too sure at this stage if he would win it (race would have to be run exactly to his liking, etc).

Agree that Sizing Europe didnt look right. Very similar to last years Champion when we looked a winner two out. Hopefully not a fatal flaw but there is something amiss.

Sublimity did it well though again imo not 100% convinced he will win the Champion as it appeared hard work to put away the second after being in control for most of the race.

Something very amiss as well with Hardy, again hope he makes it back for the AIG (sorry Toshiba!)