Ryanair want to buy Aer Lingus again

BenjAii

Can't see the government or European Commission liking the idea any more this time, though O'Leary points out the regulatory climate has changed since the last time.

"Ryanair chief executive Michael O’Leary said: “This proposed merger of Ryanair and Aer Lingus will form one Irish airline group with the financial strength to compete with Europe’s three major airline groups - Air France, British Airways and Lufthansa.” "

Smarmy as he frequently he is, you can't knock him for ambition .....

kraggy

Government have fcuk all say in it. It's a European competition issue.

brianthebard

Government still have a share in Aer Lingus afaik, therefore do have a say.

AnonoBoy

Bah! If Ryanair buy Aer Lingus we'll have to pedal most of the way to save fuel on trans-Atlantic flights. :mad:

kmick

Cant see it happening unless AL are really in trouble. Plus the government and the staff have too many of the shares and will never sell to Ryanair.

kraggy

brianthebard wrote: »

Government still have a share in Aer Lingus afaik, therefore do have a say.

Nope.

Just because they have a share in it don't mean they can't be compelled to sell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeover#Hostile_takeovers

BenjAii

kmick wrote: »

Cant see it happening unless AL are really in trouble. Plus the government and the staff have too many of the shares and will never sell to Ryanair.

Especially as O'Leary is only offering a 25% premium to AL's current low, low share price.

I think the gov own 25% - so O'Leary can't do it without them, and he's hardly making it worth their while, so this doesn't look like a serious offer. Maybe this is just another one of his publicity gimmicks ? He might have a new calendar to promote or something .....

connundrum

kraggy wrote: »

Nope.

Just because they have a share in it don't mean they can't be compelled to sell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeover#Hostile_takeovers

Well they do have a say in that they can object, but if the majority of shareholders i.e. Ryanair and employees want to sell, then they'll be selling.

Let em have it I say.

Then we should sell the Govenment to Ryanair, after they buy the HSE.

brianthebard

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Bah! If Ryanair buy Aer Lingus we'll have to pedal most of the way to save fuel on trans-Atlantic flights. :mad:

If it was cheap enough you'd consider it wouldn't you?



(thread descends into a "Ryanair is awesome-capitalism ftw!" vs, "Ryanair are cnuts and O'Leary is a modern slave driver" in 3...2....)

dan_d

AL has unions. O Leary doesn't do unions......
I wonder how that will work??

AnonoBoy

brianthebard wrote: »

If it was cheap enough you'd consider it wouldn't you?

I'm actually allergic to endorphins so I shouldn't exercise so I'm afraid I wouldn't consider it.

Terry

connundrum wrote: »

Well they do have a say in that they can object, but if the majority of shareholders i.e. Ryanair and employees want to sell, then they'll be selling.

Let em have it I say.

Then we should sell the Govenment to Ryanair, after they buy the HSE.

If they buy the HSE, will Harney appear in one of their calendars?

That must never happen (except if you're into BBW).

AnonoBoy

Terry wrote: »

That must never happen (except if you're into BBW).

Even then there are limits to what the human eyes are meant to be exposed to.

themadchef

Michael o leary.

Doubt if he really gives a dam if he ever gets Aer lingus. He's most likely bored and hasint had his name in the paper for a few weeks.

ibuprofen

Ever since Aer lingus said they would source jobs out of Ireland I became a little disillusioned with them.
I can see alot of airlines folding in the next year or two and this merger would allow an Irish company to compete with Luftansa , Ba and Air France.

''Ryanair says it wants to 'merge the two airlines into one strong Irish airline group' under common ownership similar to recent mergers in Europe such as Air France-KLM and Lufthansa-Swiss.''

''It says that if the offer is successful it will double the size of the Aer Lingus short haul fleet from 33 to 66 planes over the next five years. It also promises 1,000 new jobs.''

If anyone can make it happen it's Ryanair. I have to say I'm looking forward to this merger going through in these trying times.

kraggy

Lol

Yeah I can just see it now. Miss Flabuary 2009.

big b

Terry wrote: »

If they buy the HSE, will Harney appear in one of their calendars?

That must never happen (except if you're into BBW).

Do they do calendars in widescreen?

kraggy

big b wrote: »

Do they do calendars in widescreen?

Don't be so disrespectful.

Mark200

"Ryanair want to buy Aer Lingus again "

They've always wanted to. They were just waiting for their next chance.

I'd have nothing against the takeover. Aer Lingus are on their way to trying to copy the Ryanair low-cost model just so they're able to compete, I don't think frequent Aer Lingus customers would see a huge change.

Michael O'Leary has said he'd still want them to remain two different companies/operations...but just all under the one group.

It'd also allow room in the Irish market for Aer France or BA to compete against the low-fares market.

robinph

Mark200 wrote: »

It'd also allow room in the Irish market for Aer France or BA to compete against the low-fares market.

Wasn't Go or Buzz or something BA's try at doing a low cost carrier? Whoever it was they ended up being bought by Ryanair.

slumped

dan_d wrote: »

AL has unions. O Leary doesn't do unions......
I wonder how that will work??

He'll probably let them all go in a cost cutting venture and then offer them their old jobs at reduced pay and make them enter a non union agreement.

S

Snickers Man

The airline market out of Ireland is working pretty well at the moment. Good choice of routes, airlines and, er, customer experience. If you want the adventure of hiking across to London from the far end of Essex and the satisfaction of knowing that it cost you only a few quid to do so, then you have Ryanair's Stansted service.

If you want the convenience and security of catching a connecting flight to wherever and the knowledge that if it all goes pear shaped at least you'll get a bed for the night, and are willing to pay a little extra for the privelege, there's Aer Lingus.

This deal will see major rationalisation on flights out of IReland (why else would he buy Aer Lingus?) and a consequent rise in fares. All this talk of "growing the market" is just hokum, especially in these times. If he wanted to "grow the market" he'd have bought another really dead duck airline in Europe. But he hasn't, has he?

This is partly cyncial profit-maximising business hardball, trying to take out a major competitor in tough times, and partly vindictive "all semi state companies are bad or even former semi state companies or even companies with a trade union agreement and I want to prove that I can beat them by being more ruthless than they"

The PDs might be dead but the spirit of "**** over the consumer to make a bigger profit and kid on to them that it's really in their best interest" lives on.

I hope this deal falls on its ass. The real loser will be the Irish travelling public.

kraggy

Offer rejected. On Rte news www.rte.ie/news

Mark200

Disappointing.

Interesting chart though on that rte page..

Riddle101

I don't like Micheal O' Leary that much, he's an autocratic leader and i'm not too specifically fond of those type of people, unless it's me who the autocratic leader of course:D Giving him Aer Lingus means bad news for the staff of Aer Lingus because they'll see the true form of his heart. Don't be tempted by Satan.

On the other hand a merger like this means a strong Irish Airline and considering how Aer Lingus dosen't look stong enough to last another two years I would say it's their best chance. Hopefully something can be resolved

IvySlayer

With the bad economy, and fuel prices, having an airline just ain't profitable, unless you're sneaky like Ryanair. I believe Aer Lingus will be looking to get the easy way out instead of watching their company go belly up.

They said 750 million wasn't worth the company so its an incentive to for Ryanair to come back with a better offer. It was rejected because it wasn't enough cash, not because they don't want to sell.

Also I can imagine the calender...

January

Boeing 747

February

Boeing 747

March

OH GOD IT'S A HIDEOUS PLANE!! Oh wait it's our minister for health, coming out of Peter Marks :pac:

Nehaxak

I know my view on this might be going against what seems like the widely held view with the Irish public (from what I can tell anyway) but...

I'm all for this and I think it makes perfect business sense along with a shrewd business move by O'Leary to make that move now.

I also feel that if Aer Lingus don't take this offer now, they'll never get another one like it or better over the next ten years anyway, if they even manage to stay afloat for another two years on their own.

Aer Lingus will push ahead with replacing their staff with cheaper labour from other markets regardless along with cutting flights and staff in other departments. They cannot compete or even try to compete with Ryanair's business model and expertise in this "market" without help from the government in some way, which is probably illegal or at least improper/uncompetitive but they'll do it anyway I'm sure.

They're badly managed, badly run in general and losing money faster than they can hope to be saved by themselves OR with government assistance.

They wanted to go commercial and wanted to float on the stock market so with that, they are open to the market like any other company - no use crying about it now when they're in such a volatile and feeble business position brought about by their bad management.

Would prefer to see them taken over by Ryanair now so at least they have some hope of being saved.

Mark200

Nehaxak wrote: »

I also feel that if Aer Lingus don't take this offer now, they'll never get another one like it or better over the next ten years anyway, if they even manage to stay afloat for another two years on their own.

Yeah I agree. They rejected Ryanair's offer two years ago of €2.80 per share because apparently it wasn't enough.

Now they're rejecting their offer of about €1.30 per share.

Ryanair probably aren't going to make a higher offer. Aer Lingus shares are just going to continue to go down, partially because of the recession and partially because they just have a terrible management.

I think pretty soon they'll be face with an offer of €1 per share.

phantom_lord

Nehaxak wrote: »

I know my view on this might be going against what seems like the widely held view with the Irish public (from what I can tell anyway) but...

I'm all for this and I think it makes perfect business sense along with a shrewd business move by O'Leary to make that move now.

me too

RobBrn

slumped wrote: »

He'll probably let them all go in a cost cutting venture and then offer them their old jobs at reduced pay and make them enter a non union agreement.S

Then we wouldn't have four strike threats in 2 years

robinph

Mark200 wrote: »

I think pretty soon they'll be face with an offer of €1 per share.

It will probably be an offer of €1 that they get bought for eventually, but I'd doubt if it will be as much as €1 per share. Much more likely to be €1 for the whole company.

ibuprofen

Nehaxak wrote: »

I know my view on this might be going against what seems like the widely held view with the Irish public (from what I can tell anyway) but...

I'm all for this and I think it makes perfect business sense along with a shrewd business move by O'Leary to make that move now.

I also feel that if Aer Lingus don't take this offer now, they'll never get another one like it or better over the next ten years anyway, if they even manage to stay afloat for another two years on their own.

Aer Lingus will push ahead with replacing their staff with cheaper labour from other markets regardless along with cutting flights and staff in other departments. They cannot compete or even try to compete with Ryanair's business model and expertise in this "market" without help from the government in some way, which is probably illegal or at least improper/uncompetitive but they'll do it anyway I'm sure.

They're badly managed, badly run in general and losing money faster than they can hope to be saved by themselves OR with government assistance.

They wanted to go commercial and wanted to float on the stock market so with that, they are open to the market like any other company - no use crying about it now when they're in such a volatile and feeble business position brought about by their bad management.

Would prefer to see them taken over by Ryanair now so at least they have some hope of being saved.

Spot on.
In the current economic situation I think this is a great opportunity for an Irish company to come to the fore in the airline industry.

Justanumber

ibuprofen wrote: »

Spot on.
In the current economic situation I think this is a great opportunity for an Irish company to come to the fore in the airline industry.

In November Ryanair had 164 737s, 144 operational / 14 parked in STN / 6 Parked in DUB.
Ryanair received 4 new 737s in December, total stood at 167 (1 withdrawn)
Ryanair are to increase the fleet size to 195 by the end of March 2009

How is any airline expected to deploy an extra 51 aircraft in 4 months (between December 2008 and April 2009) without an acquisition?

The concept being put forward here is that Aer Lingus needs Ryanair to survive, quite the reverse is true. Ryanair's growth has come to an abrupt halt and base closures have started.

Aer Lingus has its problems, entrenched unions and self serving managers etc, I ask 1 question, which airline in Ireland will lose €200 million in the last 6 months of their financial year? :eek:

galwayrush

Seriously, how can Aer lingus afford a multi million euro golden handshake if the chief ex. resigns / or is sacked. At least Ryanair pays bonuses for success, Aer lingus , like all semi state (or once were ) bodies pay massive rewards for failure and incompedence.

Mark200

Justanumber wrote: »

In November Ryanair had 164 737s, 144 operational / 14 parked in STN / 6 Parked in DUB.
Ryanair received 4 new 737s in December, total stood at 167 (1 withdrawn)
Ryanair are to increase the fleet size to 195 by the end of March 2009

How is any airline expected to deploy an extra 51 aircraft in 4 months (between December 2008 and April 2009) without an acquisition?

The concept being put forward here is that Aer Lingus needs Ryanair to survive, quite the reverse is true. Ryanair's growth has come to an abrupt halt and base closures have started.

Aer Lingus has its problems, entrenched unions and self serving managers etc, I ask 1 question, which airline in Ireland will lose €200 million in the last 6 months of their financial year? :eek:

Ryanair have always been in the business of closing and moving bases when a better deal is available. They're ruthless in that sense. If the airports don't meet their daring demands, they will move.

It's nothing new.

In a recession, people will still fly. The only difference is they'll be looking more closely for the cheaper airlines. That's why you can't expect Ryanair to make huge losses like all the other airlines, and that's why they can continue to expand and get away with it.

FoldedShirt

justanumber wrote:

The concept being put forward here is that Aer Lingus needs Ryanair to survive, quite the reverse is true. Ryanair's growth has come to an abrupt halt and base closures have started.

Aer Lingus has its problems, entrenched unions and self serving managers etc, I ask 1 question, which airline in Ireland will lose €200 million in the last 6 months of their financial year?

Mark200 wrote: »

Ryanair have always been in the business of closing and moving bases when a better deal is available. They're ruthless in that sense. If the airports don't meet their daring demands, they will move.

It's nothing new.

In a recession, people will still fly. The only difference is they'll be looking more closely for the cheaper airlines. That's why you can't expect Ryanair to make huge losses like all the other airlines, and that's why they can continue to expand and get away with it.

The Irish airline that is expected to make big losses for the last 6 months of 2008 is Ryanair. Aer Lingus might actually scrape a tiny profit.

themetallifan

Look...as much as everyone dislikes Ryanair, they've a very good business model, and are one of the most successful businesses of the 90's *& 00's.

Those arguing that we can't lose our state airline....come on...how can it be differentiated from any other airline nowadays? If Ryanair want to take them over...I say let 'em. (Only my opinion anywho)

Justanumber

themetallifan wrote: »

Look...as much as everyone dislikes Ryanair, they've a very good business model, and are one of the most successful businesses of the 90's *& 00's.

Those arguing that we can't lose our state airline....come on...how can it be differentiated from any other airline nowadays? If Ryanair want to take them over...I say let 'em. (Only my opinion anywho)

It's the very business model that has served them well so far but has them in trouble now.
Why were all pilots given 2 weeks compulsory unpaid leave this winter?
He grounded 20 aircraft because there was no demand.
Now go and crew an extra 50 aircraft for the summer 2009 and see what that does to your bottom line.

Roddy Molloy walks off into the sunset with €411,000 (according to todays papers), that semi state crap doesn't wash any more, I'm not advocating the retention of a dying icon for the sake of the shamrock, all I'm saying is that this bid has a lot more to do with the Ryanair balance sheet than the Aer Lingus one.

And if anyone wants to take out and shoot the nest-feathering Aer Lingus managers => go ahead and make my day.

OPENROAD

themetallifan wrote: »

Look...as much as everyone dislikes Ryanair, they've a very good business model, and are one of the most successful businesses of the 90's *& 00's.

Those arguing that we can't lose our state airline....come on...how can it be differentiated from any other airline nowadays? If Ryanair want to take them over...I say let 'em. (Only my opinion anywho)

Not interested in the "state airline" argument what would concern me is that essentially we would have less competition, would much rather Aer Lingus was taken over by another European airline.

tiger325

I dont see it happening anytime soon if at all