Limerick - Too Little Too Late???

djtechnics1210

In recent days it has been all over the media about more resources for Limerick by AGS management and the various seizures that have happened as a result of searches after the tragic death of Shane Geoghehan.
At the moment their isn't a national unit in AGS that doesn't have a number of people on duty/standby in Limerick.
But is it the usual knee jerk reaction by government and AGS management and is it too little too late.
If all this had been put in place previously a lot of these gangsters would be behind bars by now or at the very least be under serious pressure from the constant seizures and a lot of people would still be alive.
Is it time that AGS management flooded Limerick with Gardai full time so as to hamper the activities of these gangsters and to constantly be on them 24/7, so that the decent people of Limerick wont have to let their fine city be tarnished by gangland crime.
A few links regarding recent incident in news:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1128/limerick.html
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1113/geoghegans.html
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1111/geoghegans.html

AlekSmart

True enough and I believe it underlines a basic flaw in much of our policing.

It would seem that good low-grade intelligence being returned on a daily basis by the foot-soldiers is not being followed up or acted upon until it`s far too late.

The ease and confidence with which gangsters can do their stuff in public surely proves a lack of intent on the part of the (Semi Political) Senior AGS management.

The benefit of the chinese water torture element of constant unrelenting (and Expensive) surveillance is in my mind long proven.

The single most dreaded element for any serious minded crim is Publicity.

Many years ago now RTEcurrent affairs did a short "Today Tonight" (?) special on the formation and deployment of the Cobra Units in Dublin.

I recall that on the photo-call which involved the RTE crew acccompanying a Cobra Unit car,the unit recieved a genuine call after a botched robbery in Ballsbridge (?).
The two would be crims fled the scene on foot and then hi-jacked a car from a pregnant woman.

The short chase and eventual apprehension of the two gougers was caught live on camera with the Cobra Gardai drawing their weapons to ensure the bad-guy`s complied.
The REALLY interesting part,however was not the crims reaction to the firearms being pointed directly at them but their absolute off-the scale ballistic screaming and roaring when they realized their handsome profiles were going nationwide on the telly.
They really did not appreciate the publicity at all and squealed like stuck-pigs about the "fukken Camera" etc etc...

That short lesson has remained with me and perhaps we as a nation need to appreciate the power of publicity when it comes to addressing those who seek to destroy what we strive to maintain.

Eru

Every Garda sent there though is one less somewhere else, this isnt about deplyment its about plain and simple manpower. We dont have it.

And I think good long sentences is the greatest crime reduction technique there is. Anyone know any stats concerning crimes commited by people on bail or with suspended sentences? Im guessing its pretty high.

case in point: Arrested at 10.20pm, in court at 10.30am next morning, Granted bail with conditions. Leaves court at 12.30pm, arrested for the same offence at 1.30pm in an area he was not to enter as per his bail conditions.

TheNog

I tend to agree with ye OP. It is a little too late but having said that I don't want to diminish in any way the work that has been done so far and the work that will continue in the future. Hats off to those members, uniform and management, that have given thousands of hours of their lives to bring the end closer to some of these gougers.

I don't think though that the current situation can be the entire fault of the AGS. Social and economic problems have been left to fester in parts of Limerick for too long without any type of intervention and so we are now seeing the results of it.

Part of the problem as I see it is the courts system appears to be so far removed from reality so harsher sentences are not passed down. It is the same as getting a person say from Offaly and telling them what is happening in Limerick and although they will be shocked, they still won't have fully grasped the problem unless they physically see it or experience it for themselves.

So how can we do it?

As Alexsmart said, through a camera. Whether it be a TV camera or a small camera attached to a guard or a camera in a patrol car. This could bring about a change in sentences where only words are used to described any particular incident but the seriousness could be lost if the right words are not used.

It is time to get tough and we have to think of new and innovative ways of bringing the fight to the gougers.

My 2cent.

rstans

I live in Limerick and am looking at these scumbags every day in their big cars and jeeps. If I buy a car or any substantial item I have to be able to justify this to the tax man, where did I get the money etc.
How then can a twenty year old who has never worked be driving 100 grand worth of a car without alarm bells ringing somewhere. Why isn't the CAB coming in and, if they can't prove legitimate earnings, taking the car.
New 50 inch plasma? Show me where you got the money?
Holidays, house extensions, everything they do should be checked and if it's hookey, take it off them.
The police can't stop every crime, it's not possible but hit these assholes in the pocket and see how they like it. It worked on Al Capone.

eroo

It's never 'Too Late'! That attitude is the reason things are the way they are now!!
Give Limerick it's own Garda helicopter!!!!!!!!

ARV's should've been put in place years ago, but at least they are here now! There's no use in dragging detectives down from Dublin/Cork/Kerry/Galway etc as they are needed elsewhere. There is a very visible presence of Gardai down here. Not just yer regular patrol units, but unmarked 24/7 armed patrols by detectives. I also don't care to recall how many times I've seen ERU/RSU on their way to 'areas'.

However, this is all useless. Useless, because the Council will do nothing. It is not solely up to AGS to deal with these scuts. Council could very easily have these louts removed from their estates with the testimony of Gardai. But the council wont do this, as they are fearful of staff safety.
Instead, there solution is to pull a sneaky-beaky, and ever so quietly move these boyo's out into Co.Limerick and Co.Clare! Same as they did before, make the problem someone elses.

With regards to AGS. Limerick needs a heli based out in Shannon or Sarsefield Barracks 24/7. It could also be deployed to Cork or any other area in Munster. However, the Air Corps might not want people based down there away from Baldonell.
Limerick needs a CAB unit, not a single profiler.
Limerick needs a unit from the OCU based permanently in the city. Whenever detecive units from Dublin come down, most of them will need a lot of support from local Gardai i.e. locations of louts, their haunts, as well as getting around the city. That's why the RSU being made up of Gardai based mainly in Limerick means they know their stuff.

However, local government needs to surgically remove their finger, and get tough on the gangs.

EDIT: Bring back the Tango Squad?:D;)

djtechnics1210

eroo wrote: »

It's never 'Too Late'! That attitude is the reason things are the way they are now!!
Give Limerick it's own Garda helicopter!!!!!!!!

ARV's should've been put in place years ago, but at least they are here now! There's no use in dragging detectives down from Dublin/Cork/Kerry/Galway etc as they are needed elsewhere. There is a very visible presence of Gardai down here. Not just yer regular patrol units, but unmarked 24/7 armed patrols by detectives. I also don't care to recall how many times I've seen ERU/RSU on their way to 'areas'.

However, this is all useless. Useless, because the Council will do nothing. It is not solely up to AGS to deal with these scuts. Council could very easily have these louts removed from their estates with the testimony of Gardai. But the council wont do this, as they are fearful of staff safety.
Instead, there solution is to pull a sneaky-beaky, and ever so quietly move these boyo's out into Co.Limerick and Co.Clare! Same as they did before, make the problem someone elses.

With regards to AGS. Limerick needs a heli based out in Shannon or Sarsefield Barracks 24/7. It could also be deployed to Cork or any other area in Munster. However, the Air Corps might not want people based down there away from Baldonell.
Limerick needs a CAB unit, not a single profiler.
Limerick needs a unit from the OCU based permanently in the city. Whenever detecive units from Dublin come down, most of them will need a lot of support from local Gardai i.e. locations of louts, their haunts, as well as getting around the city. That's why the RSU being made up of Gardai based mainly in Limerick means they know their stuff.

However, local government needs to surgically remove their finger, and get tough on the gangs.

EDIT: Bring back the Tango Squad?:D;)

I fully agree with ya but..
NSU need to be deployed down there on an ongoing basis,,, as no other unit/member in the country can do what they do. No other unit in the country has the type of equipment and necessary specialist training as NBCI, OCU, SDU, ERU so all these should be constantly in the city in the gougers faces. The frontline members in Limerick have done a fantastic job keeping things from going way out of hand but Its very hard to police an area when you have to live there/nearby also. Brining in outside members to be in these lads faces seriously annoys them because
1 they dont know who members are
2 dont know where they live
3 cant intimidate them.
I cant see how a helicopter will stamp out gangland crime.. i must say that i have only ever found heli useful for intruders gone to ground or the odd car chase as by the time heli gets to area everything is usually over.
All major cities still need one though.
I dont mean to take anything from the RSU and i think their a great idea but there no ERU. I would rather tactically clear a house with OCU/CAB than RSU.

eroo

djtechnics1210 wrote: »

I fully agree with ya but..
NSU need to be deployed down there on an ongoing basis,,, as no other unit/member in the country can do what they do. No other unit in the country has the type of equipment and necessary specialist training as NBCI, OCU, SDU, ERU so all these should be constantly in the city in the gougers faces. The frontline members in Limerick have done a fantastic job keeping things from going way out of hand but Its very hard to police an area when you have to live there/nearby also. Brining in outside members to be in these lads faces seriously annoys them because
1 they dont know who members are
2 dont know where they live
3 cant intimidate them.
I cant see how a helicopter will stamp out gangland crime.. i must say that i have only ever found heli useful for intruders gone to ground or the odd car chase as by the time heli gets to area everything is usually over.
All major cities still need one though.
I dont mean to take anything from the RSU and i think their a great idea but there no ERU. I would rather tactically clear a house with OCU/CAB than RSU.

Tbh, your thinking is in the same line as me, if ya don't mind me saying!:) I think 'national units' should no longer be national. Maybe regional, with each units HQ in Dublin? If not, then base them in Dublin and Limerick. With units in Limerick handling S/SW and Dublin handling SE/E/N?

Each time the heli is down for a prolonged period(rather than an hour and back to Dublin:rolleyes:), there are very few incidents. In the past few years AGS had the heli down here for a few days or a week at a time. It had a major impact, as did the ERU. A Garda I know said the heli was a great tool against these gougers, but it was always in Dublin when they really needed it. It could fly from 1 side of the city, to the other in about a minute..

Bottom line, things need to change here!!

djtechnics1210

I fully agree, they should still be "national". Increase the numbers in the units so that they have one HQ in Limerick or Cork and the other in Dublin, that way the the country in divided in two by the units and then the south is covered and the north.
I think they should do the same with air support.
One chopper in airport Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway = Country covered.
I think that every armed member should be given Tactical training aswell at least this way the members are confident to use both a firearm and their surroundings when in an armed or live fire incident.
But again it always come down to money - maybe FAS could give AGS a loan!!!!!!

TheNog

I thought the whole reason for getting a second heli was so one could be based down the country?

eroo

TheNog wrote: »

I thought the whole reason for getting a second heli was so one could be based down the country?

That probably was the plan! Sure, AGS have a plane too. No reason why they can't put a heli down here imo.

shoegirl

Every time I read about crime in Limerick I cannot help thinking of the massive amount of taxpayers money and police time that has been spent over the last few years in protecting potentially dodgy US military transfers in Shannon.

Perhaps if this had never been there, there would have been considerably more resources, not only for Limerick, but for the rest of the region also.

TheNog

shoegirl wrote: »

Every time I read about crime in Limerick I cannot help thinking of the massive amount of taxpayers money and police time that has been spent over the last few years in protecting potentially dodgy US military transfers in Shannon.

Perhaps if this had never been there, there would have been considerably more resources, not only for Limerick, but for the rest of the region also.

you could add Bellanaboy to that too.

I can never understand why people say they have a right to protest when they cause damage and obstruction then cry out their rights are being impeded when they are arrested or forceably removed.

eroo

shoegirl wrote: »

Perhaps if this had never been there, there would have been considerably more resources, not only for Limerick, but for the rest of the region also.

Well, if the protesters at Shannon and Bellanaboy hadn't resorted to violence, there wouldn't be so much security needed imo. But that's another topic!:)

Tbh, the only thing that would have come about from those protests not being policed heavily would've been extra funding for overtime. This wouldn't have done much for Limerick imo.

crazydax

Ya I agree no reason why 2 helicopters and a plane should be sitting somewhere in the east.Even if it was based in limrick it would be quicker if needed in other counties in the west and south western and could spend more time at call as it would`nt burn as much fuel on the way to the scene.

metman

crazydax wrote: »

Ya I agree no reason why 2 helicopters and a plane should be sitting somewhere in the east.Even if it was based in limrick it would be quicker if needed in other counties in the west and south western and could spend more time at call as it would`nt burn as much fuel on the way to the scene.

I've said it before, no reason why there shouldn't be regional ASU as we have here.

If the powers that be now recognise that you cannot function with a solely centralised firearms unit then surely common sense dictates the air support also needs to be regionalised.

Sad to say the common sense need not apply for most civil service positions.

eroo

metman wrote: »

Sad to say the common sense need not apply for most civil service positions.

In the civil service, it's common cents.;)