Do you think Fine Gael could see an opportunity in Lisbon?

ShooterSF

Ok. Most would know I voted No last time but this isn't a Lisbon bashing thread.

Knowing that all major political parties tend to be populist as in bend their beliefs to win over the population I thought I'd suggest a situation and see how viable you think it is (whether you think it would be a good or bad idea is irrelevant)

Right now FF have one of the lowest public rating they've ever had and it's only going to get worse with the current economic climate. Personally if I were running FG right now I'd see Lisbon as a chance to really knock them. Come out claiming that the will of the people is being ignored (Edit: Im not saying it is or isnt just claim it is) and I'd reckon with LIbertas and SF on their side they could help push a no vote through that would rock FF and make (shudders) FG seem like the party of the people.

I'm not saying I like the idea (Id get harder to vote no with FG supporting it ) and I dont expect the yes voters to either but looking at it purely from FG point of view it would differenciate them from FF while also damaging them (if a no vote passed) and make FF next 3 years or so in office so difficult it might force a fresh election at the best time for FG. What do you think?

oscarBravo

I think if FG pulled a stunt like that I'd add them to my list of parties never to vote for again. Not because I want a "yes" vote as such, but because I like political parties to have principles.

thebman

oscarBravo wrote: »

I think if FG pulled a stunt like that I'd add them to my list of parties never to vote for again. Not because I want a "yes" vote as such, but because I like political parties to have principles.

Who the hell do you vote for if you expect the parties you vote for to have principles?

I can't think of a single party on this island that has principles they wouldn't sell out in a second to if it would benefit them.

The Greens are evidence enough of this.

ShooterSF

oscarBravo wrote: »

I think if FG pulled a stunt like that I'd add them to my list of parties never to vote for again. Not because I want a "yes" vote as such, but because I like political parties to have principles.

I'd agree to wanting parties to have principles in principle but which one's do? FF & FG bend to money that invests in them and the peoples desires (populist). Greens chucked their principles to get into office. Labour would do the same. SF might not (then againt I wouldnt be surprised) but thats why no one wants to go into coalition with them

Edit: This is getting side tracked quickly

oscarBravo

brim4brim wrote: »

Who the hell do you vote for if you expect the parties you vote for to have principles?

Let me rephrase: I set a certain minimum standard for principles; a pretty low standard, actually.

For a party to make a total and utter U-turn on an issue of this magnitude, just to cash in on the perception of a populist vote, would crash through that floor.

ShooterSF

oscarBravo wrote: »

Let me rephrase: I set a certain minimum standard for principles; a pretty low standard, actually.

For a party to make a total and utter U-turn on an issue of this magnitude, just to cash in on the perception of a populist vote, would crash through that floor.

Well ignoring your opinion of them then. Do you feel it would do them more harm with the public than good? i.e would it be good or bad for their vote?
Im trying to see if this would be a viable opportunity for them to gain ground. Personally I think it would....

oscarBravo

ShooterSF wrote: »

Well ignoring your opinion of them then. Do you feel it would do them more harm with the public than good? i.e would it be good or bad for their vote?
Im trying to see if this would be a viable opportunity for them to gain ground. Personally I think it would....

I don't know. I'd hate to think that people would vote for a party that obviously had no principles whatsoever and merely pandered to whatever they thought people wanted to hear on a given day.

That said, nothing would surprise me anymore.

thebman

ShooterSF wrote: »

Well ignoring your opinion of them then. Do you feel it would do them more harm with the public than good? i.e would it be good or bad for their vote?
Im trying to see if this would be a viable opportunity for them to gain ground. Personally I think it would....

I think it would kill them politically. No supporters wouldn't vote for them because they know their lying.

Yes supporters wouldn't vote for them because they would lack credability.

Undecided voters wouldn't vote for them because they would lack credability.

I think it would be a disaster for them and I know I wouldn't vote for them because of it and I currently would be open to voting for them.

oscarBravo wrote: »

Let me rephrase: I set a certain minimum standard for principles; a pretty low standard, actually.

For a party to make a total and utter U-turn on an issue of this magnitude, just to cash in on the perception of a populist vote, would crash through that floor.

That's what I thought, I was hoping there was a party I didn't know about

ShooterSF

oscarBravo wrote: »

I don't know. I'd hate to think that people would vote for a party that obviously had no principles whatsoever and merely pandered to whatever they thought people wanted to hear on a given day.

That said, nothing would surprise me anymore.

Not being smart but hasn't FF's tactic been just that for the last 15 years (maybe more, I wasnt old enough at the time) "Vote for me because I believe in those things you need me to believe in to get me elected!"
They've done pretty well too...

I just think now is a great chance for the opposition to stick the knife in while they're possibly ahead in public opinion for the first time instead of helping out FF.
They could even come out with a line like "While we support the Lisbon treaty in principle we oppose the governments attempts to force through a treaty rejected by the people". Again Im not getting into a pro/con second run debate here. Im just looking at this as a hypothetical situation and my opinion is if the majority of voters still rejected the treaty they will have strenghtened their position further by saying this (true or not)

Though others I see feel they would ruin their credibility. I don't know if much parties have much credibility and the line above would even make it look as if they hadn't changed their opinion of the treaty.....

Edit: I keep needing to tidy this so it doesnt look like an attack on the treaty which is a different topic