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HDTV IRELAND? Questions questions questions

  • 27-11-2008 5:47pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9


    Should I Get a HDTV with a HD tuner? What are the pros and cons?
    Does ireland broadcast and HD channels yet? Will they soon?
    Could I use the tuner to watch Sky HD? I assume you need a skybox for that.
    Do Hd tuners pick up Normal Digital broadcasts? :confused:
    Thanks in advance.
    Tagged:


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    Should you get a HDTV? Well that's down to your personal needs :)

    There are no Irish HD channels yet. The HD Ireland channel was only on the air during the DCMR DTT tests. RTE are thinking of a HD channel in the future so I would guess that's 15 years away at least.

    Sky HD needs a Sky HD tuner box, but you can buy a Freesat HD PVR (records stuff) for a couple of hundred quid in the North and watch BBC & ITV HD without a subscription. And yes, a Freesat & Sky HD satellite tuner will pickup standard definition broadcasts too.

    I would hold off buying anything to watch the current Irish DTT tests. You would be better off waiting until Boxer release any tuners or if a dedicated Irish approved DTT receiver comes on the market. Most if not all Freeview badged boxes will not receive Irish DTT so don't waste your money on those.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭kuro_man


    JonnieC wrote: »
    Should I Get a HDTV with a HD tuner? What are the pros and cons?
    Does ireland broadcast and HD channels yet? Will they soon?
    Could I use the tuner to watch Sky HD? I assume you need a skybox for that.
    Do Hd tuners pick up Normal Digital broadcasts? :confused:
    Thanks in advance.

    There is no such thing (strictly speaking) as a HD Tuner. Tuners are either MPEG2 and/or MPEG4/h.264 compliant. In theory, you can transmitt HD over both but in practice MPEG4 is used because it uses less of the frequency spectrum. Ireland will be using MPEG4 (on DVB-T) for its DTT for both SD and HD (if any) - assuming the whole project doesn't collapse in the meantime.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Also there are DVB-T2 and DVB-S2 which sometimes HD uses exclusively.

    The Digital Tuner is either
    Cable
    Terrestrial
    Satellite
    A DVBx2 version does the non "2" version of the signals

    THEN, the data to Video Decoder is MPEG2, MPEG4 etc (MPEG4 can be used for HD or regular TV, MPEG2 not used for HD anymore).

    It's likely UK will use DVB-T2 MPEG4 for HD terrestrial (but no set boxes or TVs have this yet) and Ireland will use DVB-T MPEG4 for regular and HD. UK uses DVB-T MPEG2 for regular Digital Terrestrial.

    Some HD (BBC HD free) on Satellite is DVB-s MPEG4. In the future most HD and maybe regular payTV on Satellite will use DVB-s2 MPEG4. Regular Satellite is DVB-s MPEG2 at present.


    HD TVs and all tuners will pickup "COMPATIBLE" non-HD signals. i.e. a Tuner for Ireland will work in UK but NOT vice Versa. A Satellite tuner will only work connected to an LNB on a Dish. A Terrestrial Tuner will only work with an Aerial, not a Dish or Cable.

    HD TV is good for PC/Console games and BD (HD) disks. There is little worthwhile HD content even on Satellite.

    Addtionally there is little value to HD on a 32" or 37" TV at a normal 6ft to 8ft family viewing distance. You would need to be 3ft to 4ft away or have a 48" to 72" screen to get FULL benefit for HD unless you are in the 10% with very sharp eyes...

    Unless it does 1920 x 1080i and 1920 x 1080p natively it's not really an HD TV. All HD broadcasts currently are 1920 x 1080i and for Games etc you want 1920 x1080p. For films on HD (BD = Bluray), you may want 1920x1080i 25, 1920x1080p60 or 1920x1080p24 depending on the source and region of the disk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,106 ✭✭✭Goose81


    watty wrote: »

    Addtionally there is little value to HD on a 32" or 37" TV at a normal 6ft to 8ft family viewing distance. You would need to be 3ft to 4ft away or have a 48" to 72" screen to get FULL benefit for HD unless you are in the 10% with very sharp eyes...

    Unless it does 1920 x 1080i and 1920 x 1080p natively it's not really an HD TV. All HD broadcasts currently are 1920 x 1080i and for Games etc you want 1920 x1080p. For films on HD (BD = Bluray), you may want 1920x1080i 25, 1920x1080p60 or 1920x1080p24 depending on the source and region of the disk.

    Thats rubbish.
    I have a 40 inch 720p lcd viewing from 6 foot and a 50 inch 1080p hd lcd from the same distance and blu ray and hdtv are unbelievable on both.If you cant notice a difference even at 720p then you need your eyes tested tbh.

    Also there is little or no diff between 1080i broadcast on televison and 720p,if there is it is not noticable to the human eye.
    If the person was watching only hdtv at 1080i,then a full hd tv would have no better picture.
    It sounds better but as you know,each line is just doubled so it sounds better but real life tests have shown no real difference.

    Also at 40 inches or lower the need for 1080p is not going to be noticed,a larger screen would be needed to notice a major difference.Although with most tv's now 1080p it would be stupid to by 720p hd ready.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8 Animal-Mother83


    watty wrote: »

    Addtionally there is little value to HD on a 32" or 37" TV at a normal 6ft to 8ft family viewing distance. You would need to be 3ft to 4ft away or have a 48" to 72" screen to get FULL benefit for HD unless you are in the 10% with very sharp eyes...

    Unless it does 1920 x 1080i and 1920 x 1080p natively it's not really an HD TV. All HD broadcasts currently are 1920 x 1080i and for Games etc you want 1920 x1080p. For films on HD (BD = Bluray), you may want 1920x1080i 25, 1920x1080p60 or 1920x1080p24 depending on the source and region of the disk.


    Watty: I disagree with your statement that there is little value to HD on a 37” TV (32” yes but not 37”).

    Check this chart out:
    http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/

    It shows that the optimum viewing distance for a 37” 1080p TV is 5 feet, not sure where you are getting your 3-4 feet from. I have a 37” LG LCD 1080p TV (Currys €700) in my bedroom, I use it for playing PS3 and watching BDs and DVDs upscaled.

    I believe it was well worth saving the €250 on the 37” rather than the 47” if the only difference is that I need to sit 1.5 feet closer.

    It all depends on your own needs and I wouldn’t be so hasty as to disregard any HD TVs smaller than 48”, especially in the current economic situation!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9 kathor


    Hi all,

    I'm looking for an answer to that HD question for a while now. I have Samsung 40" le40a556p1. Connected rabbit ears antena and tried to tune in some channels. I live in bray and reception is not to good. Tuned in RTE 1 and 2 and some others but the quality is not perfect. Then went to DTV and tuned channels there as well. Can get radio chanels but for TV i can get only voice. Screen displays error message " HD not supported". EPG work for both radio and TV.

    TV is full hd

    question is
    what is wrong? My antena sucks or TV dont support it? or maybe Bray signal is not strong enough.

    HD for PS3 and Digital Polish Satelite TV works perfect

    many thanks in advance
    regards
    -=KaTHoR=-


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,641 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    Unfortunately your TV's digital tuner probably doesn't support MPEG4 (what is used in Ireland), very likely if it claims to support Freeview (UK DTT which is only MPEG2).


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,078 ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    Yup, zilog is right. And because the DTT here is using MPEG4, the TV mistakes it to be a HD signal, which is why you get the "HD not supported" message.

    You'll need a seperate MPEG4 DTT box to view the Irish DTT tests.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 kathor


    compatibility once again :) Thanks a mil for info, Regards, -=KaTHoR=-


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭scout353


    I have the Sony KDL-40W2000 which has the inbuilt tuner - I too get the radio tests perfectly and voice only on the TV channels.

    Is there a way to upgrade the software to enable viewing of MPEG 4?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28,128 ✭✭✭✭Mossy Monk


    Unfortunately not. But some people have bought a CAM that allows for MPEG4 transmissions to be viewed on MPEG2 tv's


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Goose81 wrote: »
    Also there is little or no diff between 1080i broadcast on televison and 720p,if there is it is not noticable to the human eye.
    If the person was watching only hdtv at 1080i,then a full hd tv would have no better picture.
    It sounds better but as you know,each line is just doubled so it sounds better but real life tests have shown no real difference.

    Also at 40 inches or lower the need for 1080p is not going to be noticed,a larger screen would be needed to notice a major difference.Although with most tv's now 1080p it would be stupid to by 720p hd ready.

    There is a huge visible difference on a proper HD size set, it's 67% between 720 & 1080

    PAL 576 is 80% of 720. A much smaller difference.

    NTSC 480 to 720 is 67%... So is there not much difference between NTSC and 720p :)

    NTSC to PAL is 80%.

    I can clearly see the resolution change of 480 to 576 to 720 to 1080.

    720 is not as useful a step up for us as it is in USA and JAPAN.

    HD was invented NOT for a sharper same size picture, but for bigger TVs. The US had 36" to 48" TVs commonly before we even had Widescreen.

    Assuming a 32" WS you can't see the pixels, then the same quality is possible at 60" using 1080 (i or p doesn't matter). Less than 60" you can't see loss of sharpness. 720 lines at SAME sharpness (where you can't see edges of pixels) is 40"

    So 720 line 40" is equivalent to 32" Standard screen at a distance given by your eye's resolving power or further.

    40" would have been a pre HD screen EASILY in USA. So if you are happy with 37" or less WS there is no point worrying about the lack of Irish HD TV.

    Often SD program material is poor and upsampled from 480lines to 576 or from Tape. HD material is scanned at over 2400lines and downsampled to 1080, hence even on SD or smaller screen looks much better. Also much Digital SD is over compressed. Some is only 544x576.

    1080p and 1080i is EXACTLY the same number of lines and same resolution, Really. The only difference is that the 1080p lines are shown twice as fast.

    There are no 720p european disks or Broadcasts and almost no 720p sets. Most non-1080line sets are 768.

    At 40" the real resolution is not so important. With 2:35, 2:40 Cinema formats a 48" to 60" is nice as the height gets rather low otherwise, then you want 1080 line, not inferior 720 or 768, especially as all the European distributed content is 1080 line.

    Sky's 3D HD (with hardly any content) would likely use 1080p signal that is really 2 x 1080i signals, one for each eye. Using 1080i for 3D would either make it very flickery (12.5fps) or reduce resolution to 540 lines. If they use 1080p signalling the Sky box can output 1080i as 1080i or 1080p of just left or right channel (The mono version of Stereo sound is best the channels added, but 2D version of Stereoscopic 3D is best done by ignoring one channel).


  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭p2p2p


    rlogue wrote: »
    There are no Irish HD channels yet. The HD Ireland channel was only on the air during the DCMR DTT tests. RTE are thinking of a HD channel in the future so I would guess that's 15 years away at least.

    Couldn't have put it better myself, if you want HD in Ireland you'll have to go outside Ireland to SKY as HD was given to the public sector and therefore nothing was done although a lot of money was spent on testing. I'm not sure what they were testing as I can assure them HD does in fact work.

    In the current environment nothing will be done either as RTE are claiming their loosing millions so they can hike the tv licence again so for the next half decade at least you'll have to go to SKY.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    get this thing called Usenet

    and then get this thing called WD TV

    :cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    kathor wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I'm looking for an answer to that HD question for a while now. I have Samsung 40" le40a556p1. Connected rabbit ears antena and tried to tune in some channels. I live in bray and reception is not to good. Tuned in RTE 1 and 2 and some others but the quality is not perfect. Then went to DTV and tuned channels there as well. Can get radio chanels but for TV i can get only voice. Screen displays error message " HD not supported". EPG work for both radio and TV.

    TV is full hd

    question is
    what is wrong? My antena sucks or TV dont support it? or maybe Bray signal is not strong enough.


    -=KaTHoR=-
    scout353 wrote: »
    I have the Sony KDL-40W2000 which has the inbuilt tuner - I too get the radio tests perfectly and voice only on the TV channels.

    Is there a way to upgrade the software to enable viewing of MPEG 4?

    Check out if your Tv is supported by one of the Neotion Cams. They transcode MPEG4 to MPEG2 thus enabling the picture and sound on your TV. Slots in the back like a PCMIA card.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59662002&postcount=41


  • Registered Users Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Dellas


    I bought the following at Christmas and never looked back.

    Sony Bravia 40 inch Full 1080 HDTV

    Sony S350 Bluray player

    Grundig Freesat HD receiver. I cut my Sky subscription off and then just plugged the Freesat box into the Sky dish and I was up and running in 5 minutes.

    Best thing I ever did.

    I got the TV from Sainsburys in the North as they had them for £599

    The Bluray player from Richer Sounds in Belfast for £175

    The Grundig Freesat box in Argos Belfast for £99

    Shop around and you can get amazing deals in the North.

    The picture quality is amazing and BBC HD is great They showed the Ireland/Wales Rugby game on it and it was like being there. Nature programs are better than the cinema. The bluray discs are so crisp also. I got James Bond ( Dr NO ) and it was a totally different viewing experience and I have watched it many times over the years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4 davechip


    rte two hd is coming in may 2011 get saorview which supports hd http://www.saorview.ie/channels-services/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭kuro_man


    watty wrote: »
    There is a huge visible difference on a proper HD size set, it's 67% between 720 & 1080

    PAL 576 is 80% of 720. A much smaller difference.

    NTSC 480 to 720 is 67%... So is there not much difference between NTSC and 720p :)

    Are you forgetting veritical resolution in these calculations?

    DVD 720 × 576 = 414720 pixels
    HD720 1280×720 = 921600 pixels (increase DVD by 222.22%)
    HD1080 1920×1080 = 2073600 pixels (increase DVD by 500%, hence the 5 times more detail on blu-ray promotion)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    The term "HD ready" is very misleading.

    It should be illegal to describe a set as such unless it has a native resolution of 1080x1920 and contain T2/MPEG4 tuner


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