First (hopefully) decent camera..

TPD

Hi everyone, I'm new to these parts, but I could use your help.

I am interested in getting into photography in a more serious way, and with Christmas coming up, and spring around the (very large) corner, I thought it'd be a good time to start.

The camera I'm looking at getting is the Panasonic DMC FZ28:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-DMCFZ28-Digital-Camera-Optical/dp/B001D2RE12/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

That's about the price I'd be looking to pay as well.

My question is this: Should I go for this camera? Does anyone have any better suggestions for a beginner, who is a little past the argos point-and-click stage?

Thanks for any help!

GhostInTheRuins

You could buy a decent entry-level DSLR like a D40 for around the same price. The D40/x/60 is the perfect next step up after a point and shoot - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-D40-Digital-SLR-Camera/dp/B000KIX65S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1227728392&sr=8-1

I have absolutely no idea if that camera you linked to is any good (I bet someone else here will though)

AnCatDubh

Can't help you on the specific model but here's some additional threads that might be useful to you;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055388050

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055409485

Also i suggest a read of the FAQ - some good "what camera/where to buy information" in there

boards user forbairt mentions in this thread that he has one and appears pleased with it. Might be worth a PM to him should he not see this thread.

In that price range you are not too far off entry level of DSLR's - €350ish for an entry body and kit lens. This might be a step too far for you in terms of what you want from it but worth considering.

Thirdfox

Hmm - as a step up from point and shoots (which in the right hands can be give you great creative photos too) I'd recommend either a budget dSLR (Nikon D40) or a professional compact (Panasonic LX3).

The reason I normally do not recommend "bridge" cameras is that a professional compact or budget dSLR would make the bridge redundant and of no economic sense. If you buy a budget dSLR, in the future you can still buy a nice compact to take with you. Buying a good compact allows you the space to experiment and see if you'd like the greatest flexibility a dSLR system gives you. Buying one doesn't negate the other. Whereas if you buy the FZ28 you're effectively stuck with the disadvantages of both systems (as well as the positives of both too).

I'd reconsider buying a bridge, but that's just me.

The Lumix FZ range is known to be very good.

TPD

Please, forgive my ignorance.

What I can glean from the amazon pages is that the D40 dSLR has practically instant startup, no shutter lag and manual zoom. Which all seem like nice features, but I think I would miss the video recording on the panasonic (Having said that, I'd probably only use it a few times).

Surely a bridge camera would be a good step up from a compact - if I like it, I can buy an intermediate dSLR at a later date. No?

nilhg

TPD wrote: »

Surely a bridge camera would be a good step up from a compact - if I like it, I can buy an intermediate dSLR at a later date. No?

Thats the route many of us here took, the difference now is that the price gap has closed alot.

It really comes down to what your expectations are, if you are happy that your new camera will be good at most jobs, flexible and has no problem with dust, but also will struggle when conditions are tough and will also offer you less control than an entry level DSLR, then I'd go for the bridge model, if not then go for the DSLR and the lens combination that best meets your needs.

Thirdfox

Yes you can - but by buying a budget dSLR, when you move on up to the prosumer dSLR you can bring most of your upgrades with you (flash, filters, lenses etc.)

With a bridge you'll have to sell it off (or keep it around but with a dSLR around it's unlikely to see daylight again) and prices for these electronics fall almost as fast as a computer. I would think that a dSLR would hold its value better.

I was just saying that personally I'd want to get either a small camera which has lots of creative control to "test the waters" as it were and then get the dSLR if needed. Or go the whole hog and get a dSLR from the beginning.

One useful tool is flickr's search by camera section - here you can see the images taken by different cameras and compare them:
http://www.flickr.com/cameras/panasonic/dmc-fz28/
http://www.flickr.com/cameras/nikon/d40/
http://www.flickr.com/cameras/nokia/n95/ (just for comparison purposes I put a camera phone in there too)

You can see that you'll get creative photos with any camera, but looking closer there are big differences in image quality.

Thirdfox

Oh and here's the Panasonic LX3
http://www.flickr.com/cameras/panasonic/dmc-lx3/

...and just for fun the ultra expensive P45+ Phase One (not a dSLR anymore!):
http://www.flickr.com/cameras/phaseone/p45_plus/

Keep in mind though - the images that pop up will tend to show the camera at its absolute best. The advantage of dSLRs is that even when conditions aren't perfect you can still get "that" shot

dreamer_ire

That Nixon has 6 megapixels... is that ok for a beginers shots (some of which I will want to zoom) or am I better off spending the extra and getting a higher pix camera?

Thanks

TPD

Thirdfox wrote: »

One useful tool is flickr's search by camera section - here you can see the images taken by different cameras and compare them:
http://www.flickr.com/cameras/panasonic/dmc-fz28/
http://www.flickr.com/cameras/nikon/d40/
http://www.flickr.com/cameras/nokia/n95/ (just for comparison purposes I put a camera phone in there too)

That post was very helpful, and I know I'll probably kick myself in future, but I think I'll stick with the bridge.

I'm not an overly committed person, so I'm really just trying to test the waters here. I think the comparative ease of use of the bridge compared to a dslr would help to hook me in, while the air of professionalism when compared to a compact would almost guilt me into using it more.

The potential to waste money on the bridge isn't that big a factor for me, I like to hoard things and so probably wouldnt try to sell it on anyway.

Thirdfox

dreamer_ire wrote: »

That Nixon has 6 megapixels... is that ok for a beginers shots (some of which I will want to zoom) or am I better off spending the extra and getting a higher pix camera?

Thanks

Zooming and megapixels don't really have a correlation - I think you may mean you want to crop the final image (effectively "zooming" if you rescale it back up).

For zooming you have to get telephoto lenses - the standard one is 18-55 which gives 3.05 "zoom" - I bought the 55-200 which gives 3.6x "zoom" so all together from 18mm - 200mm I have 11.1x "zoom".

As for the quality of the 6 megapixel camera - quality not quantity prevails (though both is best of course!)

How large are you thinking of printing photos? If it's just a computer screen - most screens only have about 1-2 megapixels resolution (my laptop right now has 0.6 "megapixels" of screen space). 6 mp is enough to print to A4 size and larger with careful upsizing.

I use the D40 myself and have never felt the need for more megapixels (I don't do much cropping though).

edit:
see my signature to a link with photos taken with the D40
I think right now there are newer cameras out there with superior technology no doubt, but the D40 suits me fine, I have published photos in newspapers, publications and won awards with this camera so while the price is low I wouldn't say it is only a "beginner" camera

Shameless self-promotion of the D40: (click on the pictures to get the full size resolution)

(this one is a bit blurry since it was behind aquarium glass)


(this one is an infra-red photo converted to black and white, my infrared filter is a bit smudgy though)


(this is as good as it gets in terms of resolution quality from the D40 I think)

dreamer_ire

Thanks Thirdfox... this has really really helped *s Methinks you have just confirmed my Santa letter!

TPD

Leaning more towards the dSLR today. Fickle me :P

Does the D40 take SDHC cards? Any reccommendations?

Also, I've heard that stock lenses are bad business. How bad are they?

AnCatDubh

TPD wrote: »

Leaning more towards the dSLR today. Fickle me :P

Does the D40 take SDHC cards? Any reccommendations?

Also, I've heard that stock lenses are bad business. How bad are they?

Good thinking (imho) :pac:

Yes. See here

Kit lens generally aren't the best but they are fine to start with - you can pay far more for lenses than for cameras so take stock of where you are at with your photography journey.

With a kit lens, the resultant images will usually appear a little 'soft' but a wee bit of sharpening in post production (or even on camera) can harden up the focus on an image.

TPD

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Good thinking (imho) :pac:

Yes. See here

Kit lens generally aren't the best but they are fine to start with - you can pay far more for lenses than for cameras so take stock of where you are at with your photography journey.

With a kit lens, the resultant images will usually appear a little 'soft' but a wee bit of sharpening in post production (or even on camera) can harden up the focus on an image.

Can you take all-night shots with the d40? Like a few hour long exposure?

Also, is there a specific type/size/fitting of lens to buy for this camera / Nikons in general?

GhostInTheRuins

TPD wrote: »

Can you take all-night shots with the d40? Like a few hour long exposure?

Also, is there a specific type/size/fitting of lens to buy for this camera / Nikons in general?

I think 30mins is the max exposure.

Any Nikon or Nikon mount lens will fit, some of them won't auto focus on it though.

democrates

I hope this helps rather than hinders, these close-up shots were taken with the kit lens that comes with the canon eos 450d.

First photo is the entire shot resized for the web, the second is a crop from the first so you're seeing the max pixels available - note the 450d has a 12.2Mp sensor.
It was taken at iso800 so there'll be a bit more noise in the image, and because it's close up at f4.5 the depth of field is shallw, hence the blur over distance.

~1~


~2~


I know what it's like wanting to buy new, but if you check out adverts.ie you'll see excellent bargains that will get you into higher quality results for the same money.

Thirdfox

TPD wrote: »

Leaning more towards the dSLR today. Fickle me :P

Does the D40 take SDHC cards? Any reccommendations?

Also, I've heard that stock lenses are bad business. How bad are they?

Yes it supports SDHC cards (though I only have a 1gb Sandisk III card in there - allows me to take around 400 shots, I've only run out once when I took it out for a week and just swapped in a slow 2gb card).

I love my stock lens - I think it gives great bang for the buck and very good results (the Nikon one at least):

TPD wrote: »

Can you take all-night shots with the d40? Like a few hour long exposure?

Also, is there a specific type/size/fitting of lens to buy for this camera / Nikons in general?

The limit is 30 minutes but I've my battery normally only lasts for around 26 minutes when it gets really cold outside.

The Nikon D40-60 series of cameras will only autofocus with AFS lenses (and 3rd party equivalents). Nikon is upgrading its entire lineup (like Canon did 30 years ago), so every lens that works on the D40 will work on any new camera. But many old lenses will not autofocus or in some cases auto-expose. But I have a really old lens from 37 years ago that I use on my D40 too (manual focus and manual exposure) - it is a fun lens to use when you're not being very serious about work. Got if for 35 euro off ebay.

TPD

Thirdfox wrote: »

The limit is 30 minutes but I've my battery normally only lasts for around 26 minutes when it gets really cold outside.

Can you stop a long exposure shot after a few minutes? Say if there is a lightning storm on, set it to 30 mins, then stop it after catching a bolt?

delly

TPD wrote: »

Can you stop a long exposure shot after a few minutes? Say if there is a lightning storm on, set it to 30 mins, then stop it after catching a bolt?

I know with Canon's and I presume the same with Nikons, is that if you want greater than 30 seconds exposure, you have to use a manual button which you connect to your camera which is called the 'bulb' setting. You press once to open the shutter then again to close whenever you want. They are cheap as chips on ebay

As somebody who used a bridge camera, I really felt frustrated by there limited functionality compared to a proper SLR. However, I bought mine in 2004 or so when the price difference was astronomical, now the gap is so small I think you'd be much better getting the SLR now.

TPD

delly wrote: »

I know with Canon's and I presume the same with Nikons, is that if you want greater than 30 seconds exposure, you have to use a manual button which you connect to your camera which is called the 'bulb' setting. You press once to open the shutter then again to close whenever you want. They are cheap as chips on ebay

Something like this then:
Clicky
?

Ni.Ni

I have NO clue about cameras but am thinking about buying one as a gift for someone who wants to start out.
Am I right in thinking that the Nikon D40 is a good start?

Anyone know where is best to buy from and what price I can expect to pay?

Thanks

Thirdfox

TPD wrote: »

Can you stop a long exposure shot after a few minutes? Say if there is a lightning storm on, set it to 30 mins, then stop it after catching a bolt?

Like Delly stated - you can use bulb mode to control exactly how long you want to expose the sensor for. On the D40 you can either buy it's IR remote or any universal remote will do.

Though for lightening storms you better hope for almost complete darkness if you don't want the rest of the scene overexposed. Even a 15 second exposure on an overcast day would probably result in almost all highlights being blown out (basically a white screen).

Ni Ni: the Nikon is a good place to start, so would the Canon equivalent - the D40 is considered an "old" camera now so prices will have fallen quite a bit (I bought mine in China 2 years ago for 450 euro, nowadays in Ireland I'm not sure what the price is (Ireland is very expensive when compared to the rest of the world) actually in one brick and mortar store (Berminghams) I found that they still want 430 euro for it!) Better to get it online from foreign lands or travel to the US to get one.

If I were to sell mine (and I don't think I ever will - I'll use it till it dies ) I would expect it to fetch 250-300 euro at best I would think. So keep an eye out on adverts.ie

Have a look at the Canon 1000D too - seems like it's a very cheap dSLR from Canon.

AnCatDubh

Ni.Ni wrote: »

I have NO clue about cameras but am thinking about buying one as a gift for someone who wants to start out.
Am I right in thinking that the Nikon D40 is a good start?

Anyone know where is best to buy from and what price I can expect to pay?

Thanks

In Argos - Smashing deal on it at the moment:

Nikon D40 SLR 6MP 18-55 Lens Digital Camera. Excluded from the Argos 30 day money back guarantee 560/6416 Save €75.00 Was €449.99 NOW €374.99

I suspect the post above might be true in so far as it being a sunset product but it doesn't really matter too much with DSLR gear - I still use a 30+ year old lens on my new DSLR (it may actually be the best lens that i have).

EDIT: Also as others suggest above check over on adverts.ie - There's a nice second hand one over there now with a price drop on it - darn nice price too. Do normal seller checks - read the guides over there.

delly

The canon 1000d mentioned earlier is what I got last month for €420 inclusive of the cashback offer and delivery from www.jessops.co.uk . Since then, the price has gone down by £20 and the exchange rate has gone up by 4 cent, which means you could get it in for about €385 or so now.

This really is a great time for consumers of any type of high value electronic gear.