Brian Vera's jaw - RE: Andy Lee

dlofnep

If anybody seen Brian Vera's fight the other night against Kirkland, you as I would have been no doubt, impressed by his grit and iron jaw. Now I know he has been caught by Jaidon Codrington, but that was early in the fight when he was cold.

Putting it into perspective - You can see how such a gritty fighter could get the better of Andy Lee. Andy dropped him in the first, but he kept coming. Andy was typically used to dictating the ring, and when he couldn't dictate the fighter - he eventually got worn out. By the time of the stoppage, Andy was mentally beat. You could see it in his movement - he was lethargic and lacked the zap in his punches.

What does this say about Lee? Well for one - Anyone with an iron jaw, who likes to pressure fighters is a really bad matchup for him. Perhaps if he had arranged the fight with Vera, after he had fought Kirkland, his management wouldn't have been too quick to put him in the ring with him.

Kirkland himself took a few good shots - While Andy Lee folded when the pressure came. Which is what seperates champions from challengers.

I'm a big fan of Andy Lee - But I just don't think he's our next big saviour for Irish boxing. Say what you will about John Duddy - But he's not going to fold in a fight for anybody. At the moment, I'd rate Duddy over Andy, and give Duddy a better chance at taking a title (even if it is at light-middle).

joker77

I watched the Andy Lee fight with Brian Vera, and I think Andy proved he's got a jaw as well in that fight. Vera hit him cleanly a lot, but Andy stood up to it.

When the fight was stopped, Andy had been caught a half a minute earlier, but at the moment the ref jumped in Andy was firing back with punches. I'm not a huge Andy Lee fan - when I saw him in the Olympics I didn't reckon he'd become a world champion, but the more I've watched of him recently the more I think he's got a hell of a better chance of becoming one than Duddy.

That's just my take.

f1dan

I thought it was interesting to see that Vera weighed in 6 pounds lighter against Kirkland than he did against Lee.

walshb

Well, Andy weighing in 4 lbs lighter than Vera who weighed in 2 lbs over the 160 limit, arranged or NOT, also has to be considered here. Andy did show real heart and grit in the loss. He took some whoppers and was still oon his feet and still firing back!

dlofnep

Andy did fight back, but he had nothing left in the tank. He was visibly shaken. He has the heart, but there are much harder hitters than Vera out there, and if the likes of vera can shake him - Then I have severe doubts about what he will accomplish. Styles make fights - Andy could win a title IF he fought against a champion who isn't a pressure fighter, but rather a counter fighter..

But in reality, for all the flak that Duddy gets - I don't think he would lose to a Vera.

joker77

dlofnep wrote: »

Andy did fight back, but he had nothing left in the tank. He was visibly shaken. He has the heart, but there are much harder hitters than Vera out there, and if the likes of vera can shake him - Then I have severe doubts about what he will accomplish. Styles make fights - Andy could win a title IF he fought against a champion who isn't a pressure fighter, but rather a counter fighter..

But in reality, for all the flak that Duddy gets - I don't think he would lose to a Vera.

Ok then - playing devil's advocate here - do you not think Lee would have learned big time from that fight? Do you not think it was more about what he did wrong, i.e. get too involved in trying to trade, than what Vera did right?

From listening to him after the fight, a few months after that is, he appears to have learned a lesson, and if anything I think that loss may have done him good.

dlofnep

There is only so much you can learn from someone of Vera's calibre. What Vera has shown is that when Andy gets hit, he loses his steam. He can learn all he wants from the likes of Vera's, but when he steps on the big stage - Will it be enough?

I'm not trying to knock Andy. I'm a big fan. But I think sometimes he's been given too much credit, when the likes of Duddy get ridiculed all the time on here.

steve-collins

yeah i think the defeat to vera is the best thing that happened to andy because he seemed very cocky goin into that fight if u look at it on youtube you see an interview with espn and he had a big stupid smile on his face sayin he was goin to knock vera out he seemed very cocky and i think he was listening to much to the hype . i hope now after vera was beaten by kirklnad that andy gets him in a rematch at 160 ponds not 162 ! i think he needs to beat him to get the monkey off his back

joker77

dlofnep wrote: »

There is only so much you can learn from someone of Vera's calibre. What Vera has shown is that when Andy gets hit, he loses his steam. He can learn all he wants from the likes of Vera's, but when he steps on the big stage - Will it be enough?

I'm not trying to knock Andy. I'm a big fan. But I think sometimes he's been given too much credit, when the likes of Duddy get ridiculed all the time on here.

I kind of know what you're saying, but at the time Lee fought Vera, Vera was a very credible 'prospect' with a 16-1 record.

As I was saying before - I think it's more about what Lee learned at a very important stage of his career - to give each opponent enough respect and not buy into the hype. If he has learned this lesson it will really stand to him in the future, and by the sounds of his interviews before and after, he appears to have learned that lesson.

On the actual fight itself, it should never have been stopped when it was. I think they were both catching each other with power shots, but Vera was obviously doing better and looked in a stronger position. Lee was still throwing back though, and the fight could still have turned. I'm not saying I think it would have, we'll just never know because of bad refereeing.

If Lee stuck to a proper plan and didn't get involved trading shots, you would have seen an entirely different fight. Why Steward couldn't get this through to him I don't know, but what I do know and I've posted on this before - Steward has been on HBO an awful lot over the last year, and maybe he's taking his eye off the ball a little bit. Case in point - the night of the Margarito V Cintron and Cotto V Gomez. Cintron was beaten badly by Margarito for the 2nd time and a loss like that might have ended his career. Steward trained Cintron, but a half hour later he was back in front of the cameras gearing up for the Cotto fight. I thought that was bad form, I seem to be alone in thinking that though.

sston

What struck me watching the Kirkland - Vera fight was just how technically poor Vera was but what a heart and chin he has. I think Lee will have learned a lot from that defeat and the Gibbs fight since. Like others have mentioned despite the loss Andy answered a few questions in that fight about his heart and chin, nothing wrong with either of them.

He did though get drawn into a stupid slugging match with Vera and I think if he's learned from that then he should be able to comfortably outbox Vera in a rematch. He'd have to forget about trying to knock him out though and be happy to settle for a points win unless the opportunity to get Vera out of there really presented itself. Might make a nice fight for Limerick early next year.

walshb

dlofnep wrote: »

Andy did fight back, but he had nothing left in the tank. He was visibly shaken. He has the heart, but there are much harder hitters than Vera out there, and if the likes of vera can shake him - Then I have severe doubts about what he will accomplish. Styles make fights - Andy could win a title IF he fought against a champion who isn't a pressure fighter, but rather a counter fighter..

But in reality, for all the flak that Duddy gets - I don't think he would lose to a Vera.

I would favor Duddy in a grueller over Vera and I agree that Andy's stamina is a key issue. It's something Duddy has and has in abundance.

Andy needs to really improve this area or he will not make it anywhere. When the man is still there and firing back at you is when stamina matters. And in the middles, there are tons of Vera's, with chins and heart and stamina and
decent clout in both hands.

simongurnick

I missed the Lee Vera fight(live outside ireland) but saw Vera Kirkland and coudn't believe Lee lost to that guy.
His boxing skills are terrible. He threw the exact same right 6 times in a row at one stage! He's a total slugger, who can take a hit, good chin and good heart, but a really terrible boxer.
I thought lee would have had the skills to beat a guy like that.

Duddy Kirkland would be an entertaining fight by the way

Big Ears

simongurnick wrote: »

I missed the Lee Vera fight(live outside ireland) but saw Vera Kirkland and coudn't believe Lee lost to that guy.
His boxing skills are terrible. He threw the exact same right 6 times in a row at one stage! He's a total slugger, who can take a hit, good chin and good heart, but a really terrible boxer.
I thought lee would have had the skills to beat a guy like that.

Duddy Kirkland would be an entertaining fight by the way

The Lee v Vera fight is up(in full I believe) on youtube. It's understandable why you feel like that, Vera really is a very poor fighter(compared to World level fighters) but fair play to him. He's got bags of heart and a decent chin.

simongurnick

Thanks bud, I'll check that out.
I can't remember the exact weight Vera Kirkland fought but I'd presume it was a step higher because they both looked a lot bigger than Lee. As someone mentioned before, maybe this loss will put his confidence in check and help him improve his game.

Big Ears

simongurnick wrote: »

Thanks bud, I'll check that out.
I can't remember the exact weight Vera Kirkland fought but I'd presume it was a step higher because they both looked a lot bigger than Lee. As someone mentioned before, maybe this loss will put his confidence in check and help him improve his game.

No it was lighter, Kirkland is only a Light-Middleweight.

Vera was 162 v Lee(Lee was 158 3/4)
Vera was 157 v Kirkland(Kirkland was 156)

simongurnick

Interesting. Maybe it was Kirkalnds muscle definition and punching power that made him seem bigger than Lee.