Aer Lingus Fuel Surcharges

ToxicPaddy

Did anyone see the advertisements from Aer Lingus flying to Chicago from €179 one way including taxes and charges?

I was looking at the breakdown in costs:

If you manage to get a flight for €179, the breakdown is as follows:

€40 in taxes & charges (reasonable)
€69 for flight (very reasonable)
€70 for fuel surcharges (bloody crazy!!) :mad:

I though oil and fuel had dropped drastically? How the hell are they justifying that????

Tox

Benedict XVI

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

Did anyone see the advertisements from Aer Lingus flying to Chicago from €179 one way including taxes and charges?

I was looking at the breakdown in costs:

If you manage to get a flight for €179, the breakdown is as follows:

€40 in taxes & charges (reasonable)
€69 for flight (very reasonable)
€70 for fuel surcharges (bloody crazy!!) :mad:

I though oil and fuel had dropped drastically? How the hell are they justifying that????

Tox

I am surprised that I have not heard them questioned in the media about the fact that their surcharge is still there with oil prices at a 3 year low.
I know they announced a reduction in the fuel surcharge a few weeks ago but obviously have not got rid of it totally.

I presume there excuse when asked will be 'Well we have to buy our fuel 6 months in advance so we are still paying top price for it', and in 6 months time when they are buying oil cheap they will have another excuse.

ToxicPaddy

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I presume there excuse when asked will be 'Well we have to buy our fuel 6 months in advance so we are still paying top price for it', and in 6 months time when they are buying oil cheap they will have another excuse.

Oh I have no doubt about that.. bloody disgraceful that they can justify a €70 fuel surcharge..

Whats worse is they make no attempt to even hide it.. even if they had said the flight was €100 and the surcharge was €40, that would have been reasonable if a little dishonest.. :rolleyes:

Benedict XVI

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

Oh I have no doubt about that.. bloody disgraceful that they can justify a €70 fuel surcharge..

Whats worse is they make no attempt to even hide it.. even if they had said the flight was €100 and the surcharge was €40, that would have been reasonable if a little dishonest.. :rolleyes:

why should they make an attempt to hide it ?

people always complain about hidden charges on flights, i think it's great that they show it.

Base

The fuel surcharge is effectively gone at this stage, anyone who can claim that €179 all in to Chicago, etc. is expensive or overpriced would need their head examined. I assume they're keeping it because it benefits them in some manner - in terms that the surcharge is technically not part of the actual fare/ticket price. If the surcharge was to disappear overnight, the fare would only be adjusted upwards to compensate - €109 is simply not a viable fare for Aer Lingus to offer at present.

I agree with Base.
It's the software that they probably havent had the time to change, thats giving you that break down,it's a ridiculous breakdown.
Theres no fuel surcharge there in reality.

ToxicPaddy

Well this is a new offer, the email only came out for it last night so I doubt its that the software or whatever has not had time to adjust.. If anything you'd think they would get the prices right before the offer goes out..

To me it just seems that they are milking the whole surcharge thing to make up for losses they seem incapable of covering.. I wouldnt mind if they were a top class airline with whom you could justify the cost of flying with them but they are far from it .. :rolleyes:

Ponster

Would it make any difference to you if they said :


€40 in taxes & charges
€99 for flight
€30 for fuel surcharges

?

ToxicPaddy

Well the fact that they are so blatent about it is what p*sses me off..

As someone has said, fuel has essentially dropped to a third of what it was in the last few months yet the surcharges are skill sky high.. excuse the pun..

su_dios

I'm trying to book return flights to NY for myself and my gf for March. Total fuel surcharge for the four flights is 240euro. Thats a lot of money for a 'surcharge'!

P. Breathnach

The only thing that should matter to you is how much you pay. It doesn't matter what way the airline says the price is made up. If your €179 flight was made up of flight charge €139 plus taxes & charges €40, you would probably be happy. So be happy.

Looking only at the "nominal" price is a mindset that actually disadvantages the consumer. It is that approach which eanbles, even encourages, Ryanair and Aer Lingus to advertise prices in the misleading way that they do. And over and over again people convince themselves that they have got a better deal than they actually have. "Oh look, my 1c flight cost me only €42.87!"

unreggd

Yeah, the "fuel surcharge" aka lets rip you off charge is crazy

Theres roughly 200-300 seats on a long flight, with each person payin a 70 euro surcharge, thats nearly €20,000 charged for fuel

ToxicPaddy

A report in USA today last month about it..

Going on their prices and doing some math and research it shows just how much people are being ripped off and oil and fuel prices have dropped a fair bit since then.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-10-28-jet-fuel-surcharges_N.htm

Tox

Ponster

unreggd wrote: »

Yeah, the "fuel surcharge" aka lets rip you off charge is crazy

Theres roughly 200-300 seats on a long flight, with each person payin a 70 euro surcharge, thats nearly €20,000 charged for fuel

An Airbus 300 uses about 46 gallons per passanger for a transalantic flight. With 300 in a plane that's 14000 gallons per flight.

Base

ToxicPaddy, can I just clarify - do you feel you should be able to get the Chicago flight at €109 all in?

A little bit more math and research for you (and unreggd to I suppose) - fuel burn is always going to cause disagreements but trying to use averages, it’s feasible that Aer Lingus will burn around 40-50 US tonnes of fuel on a DUB-ORD trip (using tonnes here because that seems to be what Aer Lingus prefer to work from!). According to their half year results, the expected 2008 average cost of fuel stands at $1034 per tonne so that’s $41000-51000 per trip. Seeing EI-DUZ seems to operate the ORD route a lot we’ll use it’s larger 322 seat total which works out at $130-160 a passenger (based on a sold out flight obviously). At today’s exchange rate of $1.28/€1 that’s a approximate fuel cost of €102-125 per passenger.

Clearly some of the fuel burn should be attributed to cargo too but I just did the above calculation to show how €179 really isn’t a bad deal. I accept that in general fuel surcharges should be absorbed into the overall ticket price but I don’t accept or understand why you’ve chosen a €179 Aer Lingus flight to Chicago to highlight this! You should go book one and check out Chicago, it’s a really nice city!

LightningBolt

The only explanation that seems plausible to myself is that they've entered into future contracts for oil (ie. 3-6 months ago when prices were shooting up they would have reached an agreement to buy at say $130 a barrel for the next year) and are still paying through the nose for it. O'Leary made a balls of not hedging fuel prices and cost Ryanair a fair bit of their profits in the last six months or so.

Even so the fuel surcharge is still quite high in my opinion given current prices. Surcharges when introduced in 2004 by BA were £2 for long haul flights! That was when prices were $35-$40 a barrel, current prices hover above $50.

Base

Oh my God, it's like talking to a brick wall.

Richard Roma

It's pretty harsh attacking the OP here. The question here is why are large fuel levies still included in the prices? It's either because:

(i) The airlines are currently still paying a substantial amount more for fuel than they were (due to hedging/ reduction in supply of jet fuel or some other reason)

or

(ii) Oil prices have returned to a lower level and the airlines are classifying some of their other costs (e.g. staff, insurance etc) as fuel surcharges. This isn't a debate about whether the price is good value or not. We know that people will get the same value regardless of what way the makeup of the ticket charge is presented to us. The point is that if the fuel costs are the same as this time last year then the airlines are engaging in deception.

Base - your 'check out Chicago, it's a nice city' and 'oh my god, head against brick wall' comments are needless.

mikedragon32

Richard, if you have issues with posts, report them, don't respond on-thread.

Base, cop on.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Tip: It's not actually a surcharge for the fuel, it's just called a surcharge for the fuel.

It's like the way on ebay, vendors will charge a negligible fee for a product but significantly more for delivery as they don't pay ebay charges on the cost of delivery.

One can assume the airlines ave some reason to itemise the costs as they do/

dinneenp

Most other companies have dropped/lowered theirs but not Aer lingus

alpha2zulu

the expected 2008 average cost of fuel stands at $1034 per tonne so that’s $41000-51000 per trip. Seeing EI-DUZ seems to operate the ORD route a lot we’ll use it’s larger 322 seat total which works out at $130-160 a passenger (based on a sold out flight obviously). At today’s exchange rate of $1.28/€1 that’s a approximate fuel cost of €102-125 per passenger.

This clever little site http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/economics/fuel_monitor/index.htm
provides a weekly update on the Jet-A1 fuel spot price aswell other jet fuel facts.As at 28/11/08 fuel cost $569 per tonne so when selling flights for 2009 their fuel surcharge is even more wildly out of sync.

However you have to spare a thought for easyJet.They have hedged most of their fuel for 2009 when the fuel bubble was at its biggest at over $1200 per tonne...and yet they dont have any underhand fuel surcharges:D

jhegarty

Am I missing something , or is the fuel surcharge gone ?

Ponster

jhegarty wrote: »

Am I missing something , or is the fuel surcharge gone ?

Not yet I don't think...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/1212/1229035603351.html

Mr Barrington hinted that Aer Lingus might drop its controversial fuel surcharge on transatlantic flights, which ranges from €75 to €110 each way.

Ryanair has guaranteed to axe the surcharge if its bid succeeds.

alpha2zulu

As of today, the fuel surcharge is gone. if you go through a booking on one of the tranatlantic routes, the base fares are higher than usual but no fuel surcharge appears. (Obviously Dermot Mannion has being keeping an eye on this thread):D
New York for example is now being advertised at a very cheap 159euro including tax.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1212/aerlingus1.html

techdiver

In fact the flights are more expensive to book today than they were last week with the fuel surcharge.

They have just inflated the base price to make up for the fuel surcharge.

I'm not falling for that one.

Base

I know alpha2zulu, but going on whats being said on this thread there're still people out there who will now find the higher fare a better bargain simply because it doesn't include a 'fuel surcharge'!

Base

Sorry I should've mentioned you too techdiver!

alpha2zulu

there're still people out there who will now find the higher fare a better bargain simply because it doesn't include a 'fuel surcharge'!

i'm not sure about that, its all swings and roundabouts.I remember reading before that when bmi changed there website to show an all inclusive price from the start of the booking process, their sales suffered badly in the first few weeks.

With the current state of play,EI have to keep the t/a fares low if they want to fill seats in the middle of winter.

paddydriver

Yep, Surprise Surprise... surcharge goes but prices coincidentally double in price at the same time to US.

Last week you could get two to the NY for little over €700 - now its €860! And this is without the surcharge.

The surcharge was just being used as an excuse for inflated prices but now its gone the prices its gone the prices are even higher!

Base

With the current state of play,EI have to keep the t/a fares low if they want to fill seats in the middle of winter.

I agree entirely, sorry for my sarcasim, for your reason alone I don't understand why people were complaining about €179 tickets to Chicago. Fuel surcharge or otherwise!

ncmc

techdiver wrote: »

In fact the flights are more expensive to book today than they were last week with the fuel surcharge.

They have just inflated the base price to make up for the fuel surcharge.

I'm not falling for that one.

To be fair to Air Lingus, I don't think this is true for all cases. I've been pricing flights to Orlando in August for the last couple of months and the prices are the same as they were last week, just now without the fuel surcharge.

mumof2

What are the chances of Aerlingus dropping their prices say 5 days before Christmas Day to sell seats - as the flight im looking at departs shortly after Christmas and returns around the 3rd........but the price is crazy at the moment and only rising again. Their sale doesn't mean anything either......:(

Ponster

mumof2 wrote: »

What are the chances of Aerlingus dropping their prices say 5 days before Christmas Day to sell seats -

Depends on the route I'd say but I reckon that you have zero chance of seeing a price drop coming up to Christmas based on 8 years of flying with them at this time of the year.

mumof2

Ponster wrote: »

Depends on the route I'd say but I reckon that you have zero chance of seeing a price drop coming up to Christmas based on 8 years of flying with them at this time of the year.

Cork Amsterdam. Normally I'd believe you, however last year I booked well in advance and yet when I needed to urgently book for my mum (family death), it was booked less than a week before travel, and she got it cheaper than what I paid for months and months earlier........ so I don't follow their system....im gonna hold on till today week, and keep my fingers crossed.:D

LightningBolt

I'm off to N.Y in Jan, with new pricing my flights would now cost €105 more. If I was to leave a day later and return a day later I'd have gotten them for €300 saving me €45. Ah well.

mumof2

mumof2 wrote: »

Cork Amsterdam. Normally I'd believe you, however last year I booked well in advance and yet when I needed to urgently book for my mum (family death), it was booked less than a week before travel, and she got it cheaper than what I paid for months and months earlier........ so I don't follow their system....im gonna hold on till today week, and keep my fingers crossed.:D

I've held out this long, and now I'm biting my nails:D
Im gonna book tomoro, but am disgusted with their pricing. I've even looked at competition, but not keen on hauling luggage on the way back via stansted or heathrow or dublin just to get from Amsterdam to Cork!!:mad:
Its not worth the few Euro savings.... BTW im flying on the 27th.