O'Driscoll and Pace

Tim Robbins

Many fans are saying O'Driscoll has lost his pace. Is this a fair and objective statement? None of us know the sprint times players are putting in at training. Sometimes depending on how quick and how good ball you are getting it can make you look faster slower. As can how teams defend against you.

O'Driscoll never really based his game on taking players on the outside anyway. It was more on swerving, balance and control at speed, rather than speed itself.

Also, as has been said, when Hickie outside him taking very wide and deep lines, it was bound to create more space for him. This isn't the case anymore.

Finally, teams now have very different defensive systems. They can tweak their systems based on the players they are playing. This makes it harder for players who have been around for a while.

So is it really fair to just say BOD has lost his pace or this just more lazy analysis?

nacho libre

I think he has, although he never really was the quickest. What he had was an initial very quick burst of speed, combined with a low centre of gravity and being fleet footed made him a nightmare for defenders. This seems to be all gone now because he essentially has played two roles - centre and an additional backrow forward - for Ireland over the years which has resulted in successive injuries which have ground him down. Perhaps defensive system are better now but i still believe a peak O'Driscoll would cause any defense problems.

Amazotheamazing

O'Driscoll used to have an explosive burst of pace which has been diminished by a succession of injuries. He had the intelligence, skills and talent to vary his game to compensate but he's nowhere near as fast as he once was.

Imo, he is our greatest player of all time, definately our greatest of the pro era, but he has been rushed back from injury after injury, when he isn't ready. I don't blame him for wanting to play and captain his country, but his coaches have over-used him, imo.

Youtube O'Driscoll on the Lions tour to Australia and you'll see what a different player he was. In the three Internationals just gone he has opted to hack the ball through rather than run it, hardly the actions of player who trusts his pace imo.

twinytwo

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Many fans are saying O'Driscoll has lost his pace. Is this a fair and objective statement? None of us know the sprint times players are putting in at training. Sometimes depending on how quick and how good ball you are getting it can make you look faster slower. As can how teams defend against you.

O'Driscoll never really based his game on taking players on the outside anyway. It was more on swerving, balance and control at speed, rather than speed itself.

Also, as has been said, when Hickie outside him taking very wide and deep lines, it was bound to create more space for him. This isn't the case anymore.

Finally, teams now have very different defensive systems. They can tweak their systems based on the players they are playing. This makes it harder for players who have been around for a while.

So is it really fair to just say BOD has lost his pace or this just more lazy analysis?

It is not that he has lost pace.. he has lost that extra step that means the difference between being tackled and getting through... Me thinks that also not having D'arcy means he dosent get the type of ball he is used too. The two of them at their peak = prob one of the best centre pairings ever. I dont thing fitzgearld cuts it ... compared to d'arcy he just dosent supply the same type of ball

twinytwo

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

O'Driscoll used to have an explosive burst of pace which has been diminished by a succession of injuries. He had the intelligence, skills and talent to vary his game to compensate but he's nowhere near as fast as he once was.

Imo, he is our greatest player of all time, definately our greatest of the pro era, but he has been rushed back from injury after injury, when he isn't ready. I don't blame him for wanting to play and captain his country, but his coaches have over-used him, imo.

Youtube O'Driscoll on the Lions tour to Australia and you'll see what a different player he was. In the three Internationals just gone he has opted to hack the ball through rather than run it, hardly the actions of player who trusts his pace imo.

This is the case with all great players.. there is so much pressure on them to play they often do before they are ready

remus808

twinytwo wrote: »

It is not that he has lost pace.. he has lost that extra step that means the difference between being tackled and getting through... Me thinks that also not having D'arcy means he dosent get the type of ball he is used too. The two of them at their peak = prob one of the best centre pairings ever. I dont thing fitzgearld cuts it ... compared to d'arcy he just dosent supply the same type of ball

D'arcy/Driscoll was better when they played 13/12 respectively.

anonymous_joe

karmabass wrote: »

D'arcy/Driscoll was better when they played 13/12 respectively.

They never actually played set positions really.

They tended to swap places frequently, especially when attacking. Made them a nightmare to defend against, but in rugby it's usually pretty easy to work out who you're targeting, but they made that nigh on impossible.

Chucky the tree

I think alot of people over look the big importance D'arcy played for IReland. His lose of form/injuries(very similiar to BOD) had a big impact on BOD form too. Teams had to worry about keep D'arcy under wraps alot more then they do with Fitz/any other potential 12 we have. This really help BOD get that extra bit of space he needed.

RugbyFanatic

Lets say D'arcy does return to form and takes Fitzgerald's spot in centre I would be very satisfied with a back 3 of

Earls
Kearney
Fitzgerald

!

premierstone

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Lets say D'arcy does return to form and takes Fitzgerald's spot in centre I would be very satisfied with a back 3 of

Earls
Kearney
Fitzgerald

!

It would be very exciting alright, but would need to be given time and judging by some of the reactions to the last 3 weeks patience seems to be thin on ground

ALH-06

O'Driscoll is quicker this season than he has been in two or three years. He said so himself, he's been concentrating on losing a bit of muscle mass and trying to get some speed back into his game. And I think it's showing.

That break he made for Contepomi's try against Edinburgh in the HC showed the O'Driscoll of old - great step and blistering acceleration to put him through the gap. No-one got near him. And that chip and chase against Wasps? He showed a sharpness and acceleration there that few players can match.

Re. the famous Lions try lads - you don't see tries like that being scored any more. Top quality defensive systems have developed beyond that. Back in 2001 that O'Driscoll try was heralded as a masterpiece. If it were scored in the 6N now, it would be seen as an absolute disgrace to the defending team. The game has changed since then, that's why we see O'Driscoll et al kicking more etc.

Serenity Now!

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Youtube O'Driscoll on the Lions tour to Australia and you'll see what a different player he was

Yes, he wasn SEVEN AND A HALF YEARS YOUNGER...........:rolleyes:

Amazotheamazing

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Yes, he wasn SEVEN AND A HALF YEARS YOUNGER...........:rolleyes:

I was responding to Tim Robbin's point about BOD's game not being based around pace.

anonymous_joe

It's been mentioned before in this thread, but still:

1. The game has changed. You will not ever again see top teams like Australia concede a try like the one they did against O'Driscoll in 2001. The attackers aren't less talented, it's just that defences are so much better nowadays.

2. O'Driscoll was being used as our main attacking back and as an extra flanker under Eddie O'Sullivan. He put on a lot of muscle, and thankfully has lost a lot of that, giving him an extra zip as of late. Watch him for Leinster who play worse teams than Ireland which grant that little extra bit of space.

Snickers Man

There are some tell tale signs when you can compare the O'Driscoll of a few years ago to the one of more recent times.

Wasn't there an occasion against Scotland in (I think) 02 at LAnsdowne when he intercepted the ball inside his own 22 and sprinted the whole way to the Scottish line to score a try? I know, the unkind will say "It was only Scotland" but I think if it happened today he would be looking for somebody to pass to before he got the half way line.

Also, against Australia this year when he caught a bad Australian punt, turned around and ran back at them. In years gone by, he would have made the line himself unaided but instead he didn't trust himself and tried to pass inside. It went somewhere near Paddy Wallace's ankles and the Australian defence gathered, (illegally as I seem to remember) and saved an almost certain try.

Just a few hints that he does not have the pace that he used to have. I still think he's a terrific player. But at nearly 30, not the man he once was.

He'd still be in my Irish team, though.

anonymous_joe

Snickers Man wrote: »

There are some tell tale signs when you can compare the O'Driscoll of a few years ago to the one of more recent times.

Wasn't there an occasion against Scotland in (I think) 02 at LAnsdowne when he intercepted the ball inside his own 22 and sprinted the whole way to the Scottish line to score a try? I know, the unkind will say "It was only Scotland" but I think if it happened today he would be looking for somebody to pass to before he got the half way line.

Also, against Australia this year when he caught a bad Australian punt, turned around and ran back at them. In years gone by, he would have made the line himself unaided but instead he didn't trust himself and tried to pass inside. It went somewhere near Paddy Wallace's ankles and the Australian defence gathered, (illegally as I seem to remember) and saved an almost certain try.

Just a few hints that he does not have the pace that he used to have. I still think he's a terrific player. But at nearly 30, not the man he once was.

He'd still be in my Irish team, though.

Given his age he has lost a bit of his pace, but he's also regained a fair bit he lost to his increased bulk.

And regarding intercept tries etc, there's no doubting that Ireland needs someone fast back in the side. We;re struggling mightily to produce speedsters.

Gelio

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Given his age he has lost a bit of his pace, but he's also regained a fair bit he lost to his increased bulk.

And regarding intercept tries etc, there's no doubting that Ireland needs someone fast back in the side. We;re struggling mightily to produce speedsters.

Yes he has lost some of his pace but he still is a very skillful player

daveyrovers

He was never terribly fast and you don't have to be to make the intial break. He never got near hickie in the sprint tests. He's made line breaks before and has had to hold back looking for support. Any of the ones that he finished himself were typically within the opponents 22 or at least half. Taking away the exceptions like lions 2001 and Hat trick against france You tube some of leinsters tries and you'll see BOD make the break but not finish the try. He also has an uncanny ability to find the line from 5 meters out as seen as his try in the world cup against either Georgia or Romania when he twists and turns to place the ball over the line and save our blushes.

I reckon there is still more to come from BOD he tends to play big games against big opposition. You barely hear his name against some of the smaller teams but playing france or Austraila he's usually the one that pulls us through.

Dob74

His pace is gone but he's still a good player. When Fitzgerald was playing next to him it was very noticable how much faster LF was. Still has a few years as an international, players with alot of heart.

anonymous_joe

ajeffares wrote: »

Yes he has lost some of his pace but he still is a very skillful player

Hey, I think the guy's fantastic. ^^

Dob74 wrote: »

His pace is gone but he's still a good player. When Fitzgerald was playing next to him it was very noticable how much faster LF was. Still has a few years as an international, players with alot of heart.

Not gone, lessened. Crucial difference.

Amazotheamazing

Tbh, I'd love to see him get 6 months off, proper rest and proper treatment for his hamstrings, don't think anyone's doubting his skills or his attitude, but just whether his body will let him do what he wants it to anymore.

daveyrovers

Funny I was just having a look back at "the lions try" in 2001. After he makes the line break George Smith chases him down along with Joe Roff so realistically he was never a speed merchent.

ALH-06

daveyrovers wrote: »

Funny I was just having a look back at "the lions try" in 2001. After he makes the line break George Smith chases him down along with Joe Roff so realistically he was never a speed merchent.

He was never a speed merchant, but it's his acceleration that makes him so dangerous and effective at line-breaking.. That initial burst of speed over ten metres can do untold damage to a defence. It's more valuable in a centre than out and out pace.

All these posts about BOD 'losing' all his pace are misguided. He was never the quickest, but he'd still murder most of the Leinster squad over ten or twenty metres I'd say.

Serenity Now!

daveyrovers wrote: »

Funny I was just having a look back at "the lions try" in 2001. After he makes the line break George Smith chases him down along with Joe Roff so realistically he was never a speed merchent.

So one of the fastest forwards in the game and one of the game's best wingers caught him when he touched down?
Whats your point exactly?

old boy

its was his speed over the first 3 to 5 yards that made him special

Gelio

old boy wrote: »

its was his speed over the first 3 to 5 yards that made him special

Your talking about him as if he is dead

old boy

ajeffares wrote: »

Your talking about him as if he is dead

no, just cold hard facts.

taidghbaby

i'd like to see him move to 12 permanently and perform a halstead type role, drawing opposition defences in and creating space in the outside channels for the younger faster players!

timmywex

As others said, whta makes him special is his initial speed, thats why he is a centre, not a winger, winger tend to be faster, but are often slower starters, hence they run deep lines(hickey was a case in point).

He has gotten slower, mainly due to his hamstring injuries, these slowed him up a bit in the first ten metres, the crucial part for centres, most good centres in the world are quick starters but not terribly fast, wingers would beat them no bother in 30 metres or so.

I think he should be put first centre moreso now, not as speed demanding and more an evasive position, having d'arcy/fitzgerald outside him would add that extra speed