The Problems with Our Backline

RugbyFanatic

Just watching this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26ElDSoOPas

Just watch those backline moves.


And it got me thinking, watch the backline moves what are the four things that they are doing which we are not now?

(1) Running at pace from deep onto the ball
(2) Offloading in the tackle
(3) Not crowding the backline with forwards
(4)Lots of support runners


Is it really that simple?

corny

It should be. I'd give it time though. We can't just flip a switch and make everything better.

Jesus BOD is class isn't he!

Teg Veece

What the teams in all those clips have in common is that their outside center can make clean breaks.
Ireland unfortunately don't have that option anymore.
The AI showed a real lack of imagination in our backline but at the same time you have to remember that Ireland were up against 2 teams who are very good at making the opposition play poorly.

crisco10

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

And it got me thinking, watch the backline moves what are the four things that they are doing which we are not now?

(1) Running at pace from deep onto the ball
(2) Offloading in the tackle
(3) Not crowding the backline with forwards
(4)Lots of support runners


Is it really that simple?

I agree completely. I think Hickies loss can't be underestimated, he was such an intelligent support runner.

The depth thing, i dont know when we got so flat. But lookin at the try against NZ for instance, BOD probably started running from about midway between halfway and the 22. That was off a 5m scrum!!! These days, the lads would not be standing outside the 22 I reckon.

I also discussed the lack of the offload in the "Kickney" thread so don't want to be repeating myslef but essence, I said there is no offloads cos there is no support. ie someone to offload to...

Diamondmaker

Stats on how often no 10 has passed or kicked would also be critical and perhaps no comaprisons should be made without this info.

I feel based on waht we have seen ROG has kicked a lot more ball away than we have in the past.

Also we won some clean line out ball on the tail that made it to TOL hands clean ( as per the 1st clip ) but yet we ran into each other in mid field and fumbled.

Its a completly differnt set of hands out there now and I wonder has Gordos loss contributed to this also.

Hickies loss goes without saying.

twinytwo

crisco10 wrote: »

I agree completely. I think Hickies loss can't be underestimated, he was such an intelligent support runner.

The depth thing, i dont know when we got so flat. But lookin at the try against NZ for instance, BOD probably started running from about midway between halfway and the 22. That was off a 5m scrum!!! These days, the lads would not be standing outside the 22 I reckon.

I also discussed the lack of the offload in the "Kickney" thread so don't want to be repeating myslef but essence, I said there is no offloads cos there is no support. ie someone to offload to...

True... i mean look at the all blacks they can off-load in nearly any situation.. i think that is one of the key factors in their game.. the ball never slows down because they manage to get off-load after off-load

Amazotheamazing

There is no pace left in the backs, amazing that O'Leary and Reddan are probably as fast as our fastest winger. O'Driscoll's pace is gone, or he's playing injured, Fitz doesn't have huge pace, nor does Kearney or Bowe. O'Gara is very slow. Every other team knows this imo, and defend accordingly.

twinytwo

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

There is no pace left in the backs, amazing that O'Leary and Reddan are probably as fast as our fastest winger. O'Driscoll's pace is gone, or he's playing injured, Fitz doesn't have huge pace, nor does Kearney or Bowe. O'Gara is very slow. Every other team knows this imo, and defend accordingly.

No pace compared to who?? Habana?

Amazotheamazing

twinytwo wrote: »

No pace compared to who?? Habana?

Tier one teams. I'd say we've a slower back 5 than Nz, Aus, Sa, Wales, France and probably even Eng. Hard to know how fast Argentina's is, and we're faster than either Scotland or Italy, imo.

Tim Robbins

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Stats on how often no 10 has passed or kicked would also be critical and perhaps no comaprisons should be made without this info.

Exactly, And you could add the no 9 to that. And every other back you Kickney has kicking the ball.

We have some of the best backs in the world (and arguably the best back still) and we don't use them.

Climate Expert

Its your first two points. There is not progression to the back line moves.
How many passes on the weekend were thrown to an Irish man with his opposite number right on him. These are all 50/50 balls and we lose possesion so much doing it.

dub_skav

A huge difference seems to be that in those clips O'Driscoll could pop up anywhere, he had an eye for a gap and an opportunity.

He was playing heads up rugby and not sticking slavishly to a system.

If you watch the ABs or France they play that way all the time, they have a loose system but players are coached to play what they see in front of them.
Ireland recently have looked like they are frightened to deviate from the system

RugbyFanatic

Just want to add two other factors

(1)The clean quick ball off lineouts
(2)The speed of the SH's passing

premierstone

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Just want to add two other factors

(1)The clean quick ball off lineouts
(2)The speed of the SH's passing

I think this is actually the biggest single factor , although abviously its a combination of alot of other factors but this is the main one imo

Chucky the tree

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Exactly, And you could add the no 9 to that. And every other back you Kickney has kicking the ball.

We have some of the best backs in the world (and arguably the best back still) and we don't use them.

:pac:


Where the hell did you pluck this gem from?

corny

Watching the recent games again i can't see BOD playing at 13. He defended and attacked at 12 against New Zealand. Fitzgerald was always outside him. Maybe a return to 13 with or without pace!

Stev_o

The backs are running laterally at dire pace.

Most of them taking the ball at a standing start, arent running onto the ball. Seem to shovel **** aswell.

Tbh im not surpised iv already said before that i wasnt impressed by the Fitz BOD centre combo and i got criticized from the heavens by certain posters here but no everyone has seemed to see the light all of a sudden :rolleyes:

thebossanova

Watching Ireland against NZ you could see such a difference in the quality of ball being received by the scrum halfs. The NZ ball was presented quickly with only a hand or a leg keeping it in the ruck. As soon as the SH was there he could do what he had to do. While the Irish ball was slow because of the players presenting poorly or needing 3/4 players to clear the ruck good enough to get the ball back, giving th AB's time to set their defence and cut out any space or attacking option our backline might have gotten in the last phase of play. This is the same with the 3 Tri Nations teams.

And it's nothing to do with the AB's having better guys on the ground or them playing dirty, because we have some of the best at that from the Munster pack. You cant win games without these sorts of players(hence 2 HC wins...) It's just the SH players train and play a faster and better standard of rugby that it's hard to compete with. Hence why the Tri teams can pick any of 60 or so players to go touring with from their Super14 teams.

Serenity Now!

corny wrote: »

Watching the recent games again i can't see BOD playing at 13. He defended and attacked at 12 against New Zealand. Fitzgerald was always outside him. Maybe a return to 13 with or without pace!

He's doing just fine at inside centre. I actually think the choices of players have been the best available.

The support running just isn't clicking at the moment. I have seen no dummy runners so far this season. Just a flat line going from touch to touch. This does take a little time to come together so hopefully this is one thing the Guinness Series has served well.

The Irish forwards when out in the line apart from Wally, don't have the pace for joining a line in attack like a Brad Thorn, Juan Smith or George Smith.