Could Libertas replace the PDs?

Permabear

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irish_bob

donegalfella wrote: »

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as someone who would have voted for the pd,s , had they ran a canditate in my constituency , i am dieing for a liberal party worth voting for but no i would not vote for libertas , i think ganley is a slimeball and i dont trust him one bit , i was pro lisbon

nhughes100

Libertas are a bit of a one trick pony at the moment and after watching Ganley interviewed on one on one last Sunday I'm not too enamoured with him either and I'm anti Lisbon. But it does look like they are going to try and field candidates in the European elections so I'll hear them out, God knows we could do with some new voices in Irish politics.

The_Minister

Tbh I doubt it.
From what I've heard Ganley is a conservative Catholic, which puts him squarely in Fine Gael territory.

Frankie Lee

Don't forget Ulick McEvaddy is heavily involved in Fine Gael.

nesf

No, I don't think so since the PDs weren't simply to the right of FG, they were also far more liberal socially.

bmaxi

donegalfella wrote: »

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I thought that space was occupied by Fianna Fail.

Frankie Lee

Fine Gael will always be the more right wing party especially with the likes of Leo Varadkar on their front bench.

ChocolateSauce

I don't think they could, the PD's were pro-EU from a neo-liberal perspective. Libertas can't decide if it's pro- or anti- EU, only that it is against the current set up.

I would never vote for a eurosceptic party unless there were extraordinary circumstances.

irish_bob

The_Minister wrote: »

Tbh I doubt it.
From what I've heard Ganley is a conservative Catholic, which puts him squarely in Fine Gael territory.

ganley is not even a catholic , let alone a conservative one

bmaxi

irish_bob wrote: »

ganley is not even a catholic , let alone a conservative one

I think he is nominally a Catholic, whether practising or not, I don't know. God preserve us from conservative Catholics, I doubt Fine Gael would appreciate being tarred with that brush.

Darragh29

donegalfella wrote: »

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I watched Declan Ganley on RTE being interviewed the other night and after hearing him, I'd vote for him or his party, obviously depending on the candidate... But Declan Ganley, yes, electable imo...

latenia

Never vote for a party with a Latin name; they're invariably cranks.

oscarBravo

Darragh29 wrote: »

I watched Declan Ganley on RTE being interviewed the other night and after hearing him, I'd vote for him or his party, obviously depending on the candidate... But Declan Ganley, yes, electable imo...

Really? What was it about him that made you want to vote for him?

Any time I've seen him on TV, his body language has screamed "I don't believe a word of what I'm saying, but I hope to hell someone does" while what he actually says amounts to little more than vague generalities and factual inaccuracies.

DublinWriter

Most mainstream politicians intensely distrust Ganley for three main reasons:

1) He doesn't come from a political dynasty and therefor doesn't have Daddy's comfortable Dail seat to inherit

2) he is independently wealthy and doesn't need to emoluate himself to the tune of €220K that the average minister claims

3) he comes from the private sector.

Melange

latenia wrote: »

Never vote for a party with a Latin name; they're invariably cranks.

+1

Reminiscent of Veritas, the UK political party set up by that looper Robert Kilroy-Silk after he realised that UKIP just weren't quite fringe enough for him. Whatever happened to that?

Scofflaw

irish_bob wrote: »

ganley is not even a catholic , let alone a conservative one

He may not actually be particularly Catholic, but he certainly knows how to talk to them. He gave an interview to Hibernian magazine during the campaign (the issue is entitled "LIBERTAS - THE MILLIONAIRE PATRIOT") - it hardly suggests that he would produce a party that could replace the socially liberal PDs.

The interview itself...well, it's worth reading. I don't think there's a single red herring Ganley doesn't take out of the basket.

DublinWriter wrote:

Most mainstream politicians intensely distrust Ganley for three main reasons:

1) He doesn't come from a political dynasty and therefor doesn't have Daddy's comfortable Dail seat to inherit

2) he is independently wealthy and doesn't need to emoluate himself to the tune of €220K that the average minister claims

3) he comes from the private sector.

He's also an ex-FF backer who famously ran the most extravagant of all the tents at the Galway races. If they're suspicious of him it's not because he's an outsider - quite the contrary.

cordially,
Scofflaw

oscarBravo

Scofflaw wrote: »

The interview itself...well, it's worth reading. I don't think there's a single red herring Ganley doesn't take out of the basket.

Well actually no you cant say that Johnny, you cant bless yourself before a game because that would suggest that you might have some kind of religion or something. Sing the Euro Song and off you go.

Think about all the bad things that could happen with that.

Wow. Just... wow.

Permabear

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oscarBravo

donegalfella wrote: »

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...or a mentality that's prepared to pander to whatever the target audience wants to hear.

Misguided or manipulative: which is worse?

bmaxi

oscarBravo wrote: »

...or a mentality that's prepared to pander to whatever the target audience wants to hear.

Misguided or manipulative: which is worse?

Echoes of Dubya.

Permabear

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oscarBravo

donegalfella wrote: »

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Principled and defensible only works when it's consistent and unwavering. I can respect people even when I disagree with them, but if someone is saying different things to different audiences, I can't help but wonder what the real agenda is.

Permabear

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oscarBravo

donegalfella wrote: »

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Unfortunately, he's probably right.

Permabear

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The Corinthian

It's very unlikely that Libertas would absorb any of the PD vote as the two would appeal to very different demographics. The PD's went after a socially liberal, economically right-wing, middle class vote and were additionally pro-EU. Of Libertas, all we care really say at present is that they're anti-EU, but traditionally this demographic would tend to be socially conservative, economically left-wing - the pre-Tiger Irish conservative; isolationist, Catholic and nationalistic in an armchair sort of way.

Libertas is more likely to steal a certain percentage disaffected protest votes from the main parties, but mainly affect those parties who are already largely anti-EU, such as the Greens and Sinn Fein.

Presently, I wouldn't rate their chances too highly - having said this, they've proven themselves very effective, and well funded, in marketing themselves, so I wouldn't rule anything out.

Frankie Lee

Another important point is that libertas have no members at ground level at all. They currently consist of Ganley, McEvaddy and a few paid communications and PR people hardly a solid base for a political party.

Scofflaw

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Another important point is that libertas have no members at ground level at all. They currently consist of Ganley, McEvaddy and a few paid communications and PR people hardly a solid base for a political party.

McEvaddy has peeled off, I think. However, I wouldn't underestimate the ability of Libertas to get boots on the ground. While the traditional mainstream parties rely on a huge infrastructure of party cadres to achieve this, Libertas understand how to do it through the web.


cordially,
Scofflaw

Frankie Lee

Scofflaw wrote: »

McEvaddy has peeled off, I think. However, I wouldn't underestimate the ability of Libertas to get boots on the ground. While the traditional mainstream parties rely on a huge infrastructure of party cadres to achieve this, Libertas understand how to do it through the web.


cordially,
Scofflaw

You are probably right, however Libertas really rely on voters who are to be honest politically unwise and god knows there is a few of them.

jmayo

The_Minister wrote: »

Tbh I doubt it.
From what I've heard Ganley is a conservative Catholic, which puts him squarely in Fine Gael territory.

Yeah FG had Alice Glenn, but then remember FF had Rory Hanafin and Michael Woods.
FF will occupy any space that gets them votes :rolleyes:

Frankie Lee

So will FG.

MG

latenia wrote: »

Never vote for a party with a Latin name; they're invariably cranks.

I'd consider giving a preference to a party called Mea Culpa.

Libertas will fail within 18 months if it runs in the Local/euro elections. Its core base would be small. Its "success" in the lisbon treaty was because of a strange alliance between the conservative right, the scary left and the professional "anti-whatever" crowd, supercharged by money and fear.

irish_bob

MG wrote: »

I'd consider giving a preference to a party called Mea Culpa.

Libertas will fail within 18 months if it runs in the Local/euro elections. Its core base would be small. Its "success" in the lisbon treaty was because of a strange alliance between the conservative right, the scary left and the professional "anti-whatever" crowd, supercharged by money and fear.

best post ive read in the last week

Mr.Micro

What were the PD's in reality? What did they amount to in the end? Answer = confused and dichotic, did I mention pointless. As far as Libertas replacing them in in Political circles, no I do'nt think so. Primetime tried a hatchet job on Declan Ganley the other night, a man of mystery,intrigue, nay dodgy. Well if the suggestions on the Primetime show are true then he has all the qaulifications and credentials for an Irish political leader.

Nodin

Latenia wrote:

Never vote for a party with a Latin name; they're invariably cranks..

True, but if he changed to "Cui Bono?" he'd at least get a laugh.

DublinWriter wrote: »

Most mainstream politicians intensely distrust Ganley for three main reasons:

1) He doesn't come from a political dynasty and therefor doesn't have Daddy's comfortable Dail seat to inherit

2) he is independently wealthy and doesn't need to emoluate himself to the tune of €220K that the average minister claims

3) he comes from the private sector.

A great deal of his wealth comes from contracts with the US. He has links with at least one US conservative "think tank" and has published with them. Therefore its safe to say that his "independent wealth" is merely independent of the sources available to the "average minister". Its not too much to suggest that the question is not whether or not he must prostrate himself, but rather to whom he does so and for what end.

Aloysius Flyte

Anyone see the primetime interview? If not, its on the RTE website. There is also a very good article in indymedia written by Chekhov Feeney. Well worth reading.

I would not like the cross Declan Ganley. He associated with some shady people and when he doens't like a certain line of questioning lets it be known and tried to bully his way out by threatening legal action.

The fact of the matter is his won't disclose how he became wealthy and saying nothing only makes one look guilty. There are too many connections with senior military personnel in America and a dodgy scam in Albania to name but a few.

I do not think that we have heard the last of him and I for one will be watching closely. There are too many things not adding up and I for one do not trust him.