North and South of the river...

top_dag20001

Trying to get a handle on this.

If you could help me fill in the blanks, or just throw in your comments/insights, that would be appreciated folks:

~= equivalent to (from xe.com)

North (Belfast)-
average salary in Big 4:

1st Year = £ 13.5k ~€ 15k
2nd Year= £ 15.5k ~€ 18k
3rd Year= £ 17.5k ~€ 20k
FAE Qualified= £ 26k ~€ 30k

Study Leave (weeks):

CAP1= 4
CAP2= 6
FAE= 7
*plus week of exams.

South (Dublin)
average salary in Big 4:

1st Year = €25k ~£ 21k
2nd Year = €??k ~£ ??k
3rd Year = €??k ~£ ??k
FAE Qualified= €50+ ~£ 42k+

Study Leave (weeks) (from KPMG site-is this representative of other big 4? http://www.kpmg.ie/grad2008/facts/facts4.htm):

CAP1= 6
CAP2= 11
FAE= 12
*plus week of exams.

• Why the huge disparities? wage is bad enough, but study leave WTF is that all about?!?

• Any insight would be helpful.

Stabshauptmann

Well at a first glance you seem to have the recommended study leave for the north only, and not the additional leave.

And you have the figures for the study leave in dublin wrong I think (or mt firm is an exception) - there is no extra week for FAEs.

Recommended study leave (including block release)
CAP 1: 4
CAP 2: 6
FAE: 7

Plus maximum additional study leave
CAP 1: 2
CAP 2: 5
FAE: 4

Plus the week of the exams

Total
CAP 1: 7
CAP 2: 12
FAE: 12

As for the wages, cost of living differences, different countries with different taxes, etc.

jon1981

and the north seem to be more realistic about what employees should earn! too many people is this country earning huge salaries and getting massive pay rises that just aint worth it or can justify it ... net effect being we have screwed ourselves and cant compete.

top_dag20001

Kaptain- thanks for the reply. You read wrong- That is the study leave in the North, the ICAI bare minimum, nothing more, no additional weeks, nada! If you need more you have to use your own holidays/TOIL.
Surley this gives an advantage to southern students?

Wages disparity- these are huge differences. I take your point but cost of living and taxes are negligible e.g. 2 bed apartment in belfast about £500. In Dublin €900 ~£700. Nout that much of a difference! Belfast is a dear hole now too, just like Dublin.

jon1981 - You work 4 years in uni, bust your haul for another 3 doing professional exams, making the partners a ton of money in the process, and you think they are "realistic" in the North!?!
Hardly true when you go out and audit clients and observe menial labour staff with hardly a qualification/skill to their name earning more. Begets the question: why do I bother?

Anybody want to contribute as to why the Northern students are so impoverished?

Thanks for the contributions lads.

Failed Salesman

top_dag20001 wrote: »

Kaptain- thanks for the reply. You read wrong- That is the study leave in the North, the ICAI bare minimum, nothing more, no additional weeks, nada! If you need more you have to use your own holidays/TOIL.
Surley this gives an advantage to southern students?

To be fair, the extra study leave for any of the big four comes from your own overtime. You can go into negative overtime if you want, but not by much.

Not as if they give it to you out of the goodness of their hearts!

Stabshauptmann

top_dag20001 wrote: »

Kaptain- thanks for the reply. You read wrong- That is the study leave in the North, the ICAI bare minimum, nothing more, no additional weeks, nada! If you need more you have to use your own holidays/TOIL.
Surley this gives an advantage to southern students?

Wages disparity- these are huge differences. I take your point but cost of living and taxes are negligible e.g. 2 bed apartment in belfast about £500. In Dublin €900 ~£700. Nout that much of a difference! Belfast is a dear hole now too, just like Dublin.

jon1981 - You work 4 years in uni, bust your haul for another 3 doing professional exams, making the partners a ton of money in the process, and you think they are "realistic" in the North!?!
Hardly true when you go out and audit clients and observe menial labour staff with hardly a qualification/skill to their name earning more. Begets the question: why do I bother?

Anybody want to contribute as to why the Northern students are so impoverished?

Thanks for the contributions lads.

You do realise that 500/700 = 15k/21k? Your example not mine...

And the additional leave is made up of overtime / holidays. You simply have permission to take time off, which I would be surprised to hear you werent allowed do in Belfast.

BTW, is KPMG the only Irish Big 4 that operates on an All-Ireland basis? The NornIron PwC offices I've been told are part of the UK firm.

jon1981

top_dag20001 wrote: »

jon1981 - You work 4 years in uni, bust your haul for another 3 doing professional exams, making the partners a ton of money in the process, and you think they are "realistic" in the North!?!
Hardly true when you go out and audit clients and observe menial labour staff with hardly a qualification/skill to their name earning more. Begets the question: why do I bother?

Anybody want to contribute as to why the Northern students are so impoverished?

Thanks for the contributions lads.

valid point. but hasnt accountants salaries in the UK and NI always been lower than here? according to my accountant buddies thats the case. are accounting costs lower for businesses? ? more competition? over supply of accountants?

top_dag20001

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

You do realise that 500/700 = 15k/21k? Your example not mine...
And the additional leave is made up of overtime / holidays. You simply have permission to take time off, which I would be surprised to hear you werent allowed do in Belfast.
BTW, is KPMG the only Irish Big 4 that operates on an All-Ireland basis? The NornIron PwC offices I've been told are part of the UK firm.

You do realise you are mistakenly comparing figures from Year1(ROI) and Year 2(NI)? which makes it look marginal. If you take Y1 (NI) €15k Vs Y1 (ROI) €25k, its 40% less for NI!

Thanks for clearing that up on the study leave. You hear so much mixed reports these days regarding firms giving more/less. Many in NI use holiday and TOIL to bolster their days off to study for exams.

There does seem to exist a divide between conditions/pay for Northern and Southern (primarily Dublin/Belfast) students. Just wonder what peoples thoughts are other than the usual cacknbull story you normally hear from senior/partner level "cost of living etc". Is there more lean on the big4 in Dublin to pay fair?, too many accountancy students in NI who are less likley to be mobile? co-conspiring/monopolising by big4 to suppress wages in the north?