Thread on C&T forum.....

cgf

Spotted this over on the Commuting & Transport forum http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055424678 :mad: but not :eek:

Raam

Ah it's not too bad a thread

Chips Lovell

cipo

i ve just replied to it.

its a pretty normal experience im sure we ll all agree that we see it alot on the roads.

we are all guilty of some misdemeanours re ROR.

i now very rarely go through red lights in the hope that others will do the same and car drivers will possibly notice it and have a more positive attitude to cyclists.

dont be dead, stop at red !!

Lumen

cipo wrote: »

don't be dead, stop at red !!

With both driving and cycling, I tend to take the view that I'd like to get to my destination as fast as possible; I'm only on this planet for a few more decades (at best) so would like to make the best use of the time available.

Whereas I don't break reds in the car (for various reasons), on my bike I tend to treat red lights as "yield with extreme caution". This is obviously against the rules, but since I only do it when it's safe (i.e. junction is clear and my action is not likely to surprise any motorists, peds etc) I could care less. It means I'm off the road quicker, which is in everyone's interest.

If drivers see me executing such a safe but illegal manoeuvre and get wound up, they're either some sort of rule Nazi who believes that even stupid rules should be followed, or incapable of judging what's safe and what's not, in which case their opinion is valueless.

I can understand why a car driver would react to the above with "why can't we break the rules too?", to which my response is:

1) if I judge wrongly I will most likely kill only myself, whereas you will probably harm both yourself and others

2) Go ahead and break any rules you believe are unreasonable, as long as you're prepared to take the punishment if you get caught (as I am).

ba

cipo, fair play. i myself abide by the rules, and stop at red lights for the very same reasons. i hope drivers recognize our decisions and of course other cyclists. it's particularly difficult to obey these rules when you know you could get away with it and pedal onwards, but i like to think onlooking motorists will appreciate a cyclist respecting the rules of the road as they do.

we can all agree that the cyclist is somewhat below status quo in ireland, respecting the rules of the road is the first way we can elevate our position in society.

Gavin

Lumen wrote: »

Whereas I don't break reds in the car (for various reasons), on my bike I tend to treat red lights as "yield with extreme caution".

I used to do this, but now I just obey all red lights. Few reasons as mentioned on past threads

1) I don't see the point in giving fodder to motorists.
2) Going through the city center, with the amount of red lights, it just doesn't make sense to jump some and not others. The time saved is absolutely minimal, in the order of 3 or 4 minutes total journey time.
3) If I want to be respected as another road user, it's only reasonable to obey the law.

1) if I judge wrongly I will most likely kill only myself, whereas you will probably harm both yourself and others

Of course, you don't know that to be the case. For example, drivers often accelerate to beat the orange (bad driving). Suppose said driver is shooting through a junction which you are cycling though, you having looked and not seen any cars (who knows maybe you missed it, maybe the car wasn't speeding at that point, maybe it was in your blind spot, maybe the cars lights were off etc). Car driver sees you, swerves to avoids and clobbers another car/pedestrian/cyclist/street furniture.

2) Go ahead and break any rules you believe are unreasonable, as long as you're prepared to take the punishment if you get caught (as I am).

Hardly the most socially responsible way to live ones life. I don't throw eggs at people I dislike because I am worried about the punishment, I don't do it because I have a sense of right and wrong. I rarely see cyclists stopped by Gardai for going through red lights, that is not the reason I stopped breaking them.

Lumen

Verb wrote: »

Of course, you don't know that to be the case. For example, drivers often accelerate to beat the orange (bad driving). Suppose said driver is shooting through a junction which you are cycling though, you having looked and not seen any cars (who knows maybe you missed it, maybe the car wasn't speeding at that point, maybe it was in your blind spot, maybe the cars lights were off etc).

As I said "yield with extreme caution". Those things will not happen if you are sufficiently observant. Simple example, if you can't see the junction to be positively clear, then assume it is not. Merging on a red light is no more dangerous than yielding on a yield, except that drivers will not necessarily be expecting you to merge, so you have to take extra care.

If you were to follow your "anything can happen" argument to it's conclusion, you'd never use a yield junction at all, which would mean never cycling on the road.

Verb wrote: »

I don't throw eggs at people I dislike because I am worried about the punishment, I don't do it because I have a sense of right and wrong.

I don't throw eggs at people I dislike for the same reason. Do didn't say "I don't throw eggs at people because it is against the rules", so I assume we agree on that point.