Tax and VAT cuts in the UK to stimulate the economy.

Antrim_Man

We go the opposite way. Who has it badly wrong??

I know from my own personnel experience, less money means less spending and also I now shop for items on the Internet and would not dream about paying the crazy local prices.

I also spend a lot in the North on groceries. I can shop for non perishable goods from Asda or Tescos online, get them delivered to my folks house in Antrim and they bring them down when visiting or I collect when I go up.

I am sure many people are the same and I feel the governments tax increases are forcing shoppers to do the same and with a VAT cut due in the UK this will compound the problem for this governments strategy.

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/23112008/140/vat-cut-cards.html

If any FF'ers are reading this. You are driving what money there is North of the border. You are making the problems worse.

Not very patriotic?? Aye right ye are. Irish politicians are among the best paid in the world. Let he without sin cast the first stone and all that

mikemac

I don't like this appeal from the government and the Dublin mayor calling for people to be patriotic.

It's almost as if shoppers who go to NI or people buying over the internet are traitors
Ah, that's too strong a word but you know what I mean

We work hard for our income, we certainly pay tax on it so if Irish business want our cash, I suppose they'll have to fight for it.
Not sit back and complain, they sound like the publicans!

KhanTheMan

micmclo wrote: »

I don't like this appeal from the government and the Dublin major calling for people to be patriotic.

It's almost as if shoppers who go to NI or people buying over the internet are traitors
Ah, that's too strong a word but you know what I mean

We work hard for our income, we certainly pay tax on it so if Irish business want our cash, I suppose they'll have to fight for it.
Not sit back and complain, they sound like the publicans!

Now the govt is appealing to us. Havent we been appealing to them for years on the rip-offs here and they havent dont anything except say "shop around".

Now we are shopping around.

They've been giving it to us up the arse for years. Stamp Duty, VRT, 21% VAT. Now 21.5%. Another 8c on a litre of petrol. Levies. Stealth Taxes. Our arses are not big enough to take all of this. Now people have noticed. Up North we go.

We sent our receipts from the North to Tesco and asked them to comment. They gave us 2500 clubcard points.

mike65

The government here is imcompentent, they have it all arseways with measures that suck life out of the economy rather than prime it. I understand 15% is the lowest the general rate of VAT can go, so there is plenty of scope in theory. The UK gov has decided its willing to go into serious debt for a few years and pay that off when the tide tuns with higher taxes in selected areas, here we are deepening the slump in the hope (I suspect) that when the global turnaround happens it'll lift Ireland Inc. as if by magic.

Mike

mike65

mike65 wrote: »

The government here is imcompentent, they have it all arseways with measures that suck life out of the economy rather than prime it.

May I ask what qualifications you hold that allows you to justify such a statement?

mike65

Years of watching them! Brian Lennihan is a solicitor.

Now the serious answer - wise fiscal policy is countercyclical, for years succesive government have primed an economy that didn't need any help to win elections now when we need money pumping in there is none and they refuse to borrow as they should - for infrastructure, boosting education and so on so when things do turn round we are placed to take advantage. At the 2007 budget it was clear a slow down of some sort was coming but Cowen ignored all the signs and since then every measure has been both too late and wrong.

Mike

mike65

mike65 wrote: »

Years of watching them! Brian Lennihan is a solicitor.

Mike

I've years of experience of eating and reading, but I know I am not a chef nor a writer.

Ever think that there may be qualified civil servants advising him? Or do you believe that he just pulls policy out of his ass?

Tricity Bendix

Well, regardless of what profession the MoF once was, I think this raising of VAT can be described as wholly incompetent.

Antrim_Man

So the VAT has been cut and there is real trouble ahead especially for the border towns.

VAT cut key to UK economic boost

[URL="javascript:showPlayer('britain_av.html')"] [/URL] [URL="javascript:showPlayer('britain_av.html')"] [/URL] Monday, 24 November 2008 18:45
The British Chancellor has announced plans for a £20 billion injection to stimulate the UK economy between now and April 2010.
In his pre-Budget report to the House of Commons, Alastair Darling announced a cut in the VAT rate from 17.5% to 15% from December 1. The reduction will last for 13 months.
This year's increase in the income tax personal allowance of £120 a year for basic rate taxpayers is also to be made permanent and increased to £145 in April.



To persuade markets that the British government will balance its books once the economy improves, Mr Darling announced plans for deferred tax rises and public spending curbs.
One measure included a new 45% income tax rate on individual earnings of over £150,000 if Labour wins the next election, up from the current top rate of 40%.
The measures lifted London's stock market, with the FTSE up almost 10%.
The Chancellor also said UK air passenger duty would be reformed into a four-band system, in an effort to ensure that those who travel further and have a larger environmental impact meet the cost.
Mr Darling also lowered his forecast for the UK economy next year to a range of -0.75% to -1.25%.
A group representing the retail sector has expressed concern about the British move to reduce its VAT rate.
Retail Ireland, part of employers' group IBEC, said the move would make Ireland less competitive and 'compound the problem of people crossing the border to shop'. Its director Torlach Denihan said the consequences for border towns would be very serious and urged the Government to consider lowering the VAT rate.

ranger4

Antrim_Man wrote: »

We go the opposite way. Who has it badly wrong??

I know from my own personnel experience, less money means less spending and also I now shop for items on the Internet and would not dream about paying the crazy local prices.

I also spend a lot in the North on groceries. I can shop for non perishable goods from Asda or Tescos online, get them delivered to my folks house in Antrim and they bring them down when visiting or I collect when I go up.

I am sure many people are the same and I feel the governments tax increases are forcing shoppers to do the same and with a VAT cut due in the UK this will compound the problem for this governments strategy.

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/23112008/140/vat-cut-cards.html

If any FF'ers are reading this. You are driving what money there is North of the border. You are making the problems worse.

Not very patriotic?? Aye right ye are. Irish politicians are among the best paid in the world. Let he without sin cast the first stone and all that

No need for half of those waisters in the dail, Pure gravey train.

mumhaabu

Oh well at least the UK will be in good enough shape for the millions that will leave once the IMF steps in to take things over.

leninbenjamin

problem with lowering VAT here in Ireland is that we're such a small and open economy that the benefits of any generated economic activity tend to fly across the seas fast.

having said that, I do think the Government are taking the piss with the amount of contractionary economic policy they've implemented in the past 3 months.

I think Mike's fair in calling our government incompetent w.r.t economic policy. countercyclical doesn't seem to be a word in their lexicon. McCreevy was really the only one to attempt anything like this in recent years and look where he ended up...

Lplated

Whether Government is being advised by top class civil servants or not, it does seem a bit odd to me that we're the only economy in the world to react to the recession by increasing taxes, whether direct or indirect. (VAT, ESB, Health Insurance etc etc).

And I have to admit it really got on my goat this week that Mayor of Dublin, followed by Mary Coughland, followed by Lenihan, followed by Cowen all called on us to be 'patriotic' and spend our money down here.

Its years ago now since the whole 'rip-off' ireland thing had currency, and the reaction of officialdom is either non-existent or incompetent (and no, i don't have an economics qualification either). Just earlier this year the National Consumer Agency survey showed a 30% difference in products North and South of the border - add in an expanded Vat difference, changes in sterling, and that difference is now over 40%.

So no, i'm not surprised that the AA had to warn people off the M1 today due to almost three hour tailbacks.

The (incompetent) government take more and more from us and then expect us to spend the decreasing amount of discretionary spending we have on goods that are 30 or 40 % dearer than a couple of miles up the road for exactly the same stuff.

Tell the truth, I don't think the UK had to reduce VAT rates, we'd have gone up there anyway.

eoinbn

mike65 wrote: »

The government here is imcompentent, they have it all arseways with measures that suck life out of the economy rather than prime it. I understand 15% is the lowest the general rate of VAT can go, so there is plenty of scope in theory. The UK gov has decided its willing to go into serious debt for a few years and pay that off when the tide tuns with higher taxes in selected areas, here we are deepening the slump in the hope (I suspect) that when the global turnaround happens it'll lift Ireland Inc. as if by magic.

Mike

Here is the difference. There are some projections for next year that put our defict between €15-19b. Lets take the low figure and enlarge it into a british defict, UK taxs receipts were at least 13 times a few years ago: 15b*13=€195B=£150B.
So if the UK was in as much trouble as us they would be running a defict of £150b next year without any cuts in taxs. I believe they plan to run one of ~£120b after the stimulus package, which is still better than us- that's how neck deep we are in it.