People who park on motorway hard shoulders: what gives?

Amtmann

I've noticed this a lot on the M8 lately. And today I read that a coal delivery man (in his 70s) who had parked his lorry on the hard shoulder of the M4 was killed when his vehicle was ploughed into by a truck. Very, very sad.

But why do people do it? As far as I know you should not enter a motorway hard shoulder unless you've a very good reason. But judging from the amount of cars I've seen on the M8 so parked, people do it wantonly. Is this just sheer ignorance of the rules of motorway driving, blind stupidity, or errant fecklessness in most cases? And what can and should be done about it?

Frisbee

Most likely don't want to talk on their phone while driving and risk getting points

Amtmann

I wonder though, since you're not supposed to stop at all on a motorway, could they get points for doing just that? So again, is it just down to plain ignorance?

L1011

Furet wrote: »

I've noticed this a lot on the M8 lately. And today I read that a coal delivery man (in his 70s) who had parked his lorry on the hard shoulder of the M4 was killed when his vehicle was ploughed into by a truck. Very, very sad.

Separate story to this one?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1120/rta.html

Either RTE or your source have the drivers age wrong. Wonder what reason the other truck ended up in the hard shoulder to hit the first one also.

Frisbee

Furet wrote: »

I wonder though, since you're not supposed to stop at all on a motorway, could they get points for doing just that? So again, is it just down to plain ignorance?

Have you ever answered or been on your phone while driving on a motorway?

Amtmann

Frisbee wrote: »

Have you ever answered or been on your phone while driving on a motorway?

No. I don't want to die.

Amtmann

MYOB wrote: »

Separate story to this one?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1120/rta.html

Either RTE or your source have the drivers age wrong. Wonder what reason the other truck ended up in the hard shoulder to hit the first one also.

Not sure. I read the article in the Irish Independent here. According to the Indo, he was checking his load.

View Profile

After having seen both british & american police dash vids of cars getting ploughed into while on the hard shoulder I'd think twice about pulling into one.
And if I did Id make well sure to exit the vehicle and stand safely away up on the embankment.

Its a very dangerous place to be.

Amtmann

View Profile wrote: »

After having seen both british & american police dash vids of cars getting ploughed into while on the hard shoulder I'd think twice about pulling into one.
And if I did Id make well sure to exit the vehicle and stand safely away up on the embankment.

Its a very dangerous place to be.

Totally agree. The "I have to take a call" defence is a nonsense - and very, very dangerous. You should not stop on a motorway for any reason other than an emergency.

slimjimmc

It's rampant on the M7 and M9 too. From my observations it's usually people who can't ignore a phone call, can't hold their bladder or have kids.
Oh, and I've seen cops parked there too :eek:.

BluntGuy

A few points:

> If you get a phone call, you should either let somebody else in the car answer it, or if there is nobody available, then simply pull into the nearest Lay-by or MSA to ring back the number.

That of course... would be the situation. It is however obvious to all of us that in the absense of MSAs and the fact that Lay-bys aren't allowed on motorways that the hard-shoulder is the only "safe" (I use that word loosely) place to stop an answer a call.

> If you need to use a toilet, ideally you should bring some sort of toilet equipment in your car, or if this is none available, then simply pull into the nearest Lay-by or MSA to use the toilet facilties.

That of course... would be the situation. It is however obvious to all of us that in the absense of MSAs and the fact that Lay-bys aren't allowed on motorways that the hard-shoulder is the only "safe" (I use that word loosely) place to stop and... err... "relief" yourself.

> If your kids are getting bored in the car, ideally you should have some kind of entertainment prepared for them (i.e something to "shut them up" to bit it quite bluntly). If there is none available, then simply pull into the nearest Lay-by or MSA and entertain the kids there for a while.

That of course... would... etc.

> If you want to stretch your legs... MSA... lay-by... etc.

> If you want to have something to eat... MSA... lay-by... etc.

> If you want to have a rest... MSA... lay-by... etc.

Quite simply put, our motorway network is severely lacking in these basic facilities. I disagree with stopping on the hard shoulder, but what's the alternative? Leaving the motorway and going to a town to use the services seems to be the only one. And although that's a perfectly reasonable course of action, it defeats the purpose of having motorway bypasses if you're just going to go into town anyway.

If the NRA hadn't faffed about with deciding whether the network should be motorway/HQDC and hadn't flapped about deciding whether we needed MSAs or not, then I bet you the first MSAs would be under-construction or already open, with the others on the way.

As for making calls (important calls, I must add), it is recommended you use the motorway phones rather than your mobile as it's easier to track you to an exact position. However, get stuck on any of the new M8, M6 or M9 sections and you're outta luck because phones weren't deemed necessary upon redesignation of those stretches.

My advice when stopping on the hard shoulder is to do what View Profile did. You exit on the left side of the car, and get as far into the embankment as possible. All other passengers must also leave the vehicle. The driver will then carry out whatever repair jobs are needed, or walk to the nearest telephone (ideally there should be signs pointing to where the nearest one is like in the UK/N.IRL) and phone for services. That is correct procedure.

marmurr1916

It's because

a: too many Irish drivers don't have a clue about the safe use of motorways

and

b. the Guards don't really give a toss.

The enforcement of the Rules of the Road is very lax.

AugustusMaximus

slimjimmc wrote: »

It's rampant on the M7 and M9 too. From my observations it's usually people who can't ignore a phone call, can't hold their bladder or have kids.
Oh, and I've seen cops parked there too :eek:.

Cops parked doing speed checks in the hard shoulder is just bloody crazy. Is this even legal ? And to do a person for speeding they'd have to pull the other car into the hard shoulder.

If you need to make a phonecall, exit the motorway at the next available exit.

BTW, don't the gardai often put a Gatso camera under a bridge in the hard shoulder on the M1. Crazy stuff.

slimjimmc

BluntGuy wrote: »

A few points:

> If you get a phone call, you should either let somebody else in the car answer it, or if there is nobody available, then simply pull into the nearest Lay-by or MSA to ring back the number.

That of course... would be the situation. It is however obvious to all of us that in the absense of MSAs and the fact that Lay-bys aren't allowed on motorways that the hard-shoulder is the only "safe" (I use that word loosely) place to stop an answer a call.

No. the ONLY safe thing to do in this situation is to turn off the phone before starting your journey (so as not to be distracted or tempted by the constant ringtone) and to ring back later when you've found a safe and legal place to stop off the motorway.

BluntGuy wrote: »

> If you need to use a toilet, ideally you should bring some sort of toilet equipment in your car, or if this is none available, then simply pull into the nearest Lay-by or MSA to use the toilet facilties.

That of course... would be the situation. It is however obvious to all of us that in the absense of MSAs and the fact that Lay-bys aren't allowed on motorways that the hard-shoulder is the only "safe" (I use that word loosely) place to stop and... err... "relief" yourself.

> If your kids are getting bored in the car, ideally you should have some kind of entertainment prepared for them (i.e something to "shut them up" to bit it quite bluntly). If there is none available, then simply pull into the nearest Lay-by or MSA and entertain the kids there for a while.

That of course... would... etc.

> If you want to stretch your legs... MSA... lay-by... etc.

> If you want to have something to eat... MSA... lay-by... etc.

> If you want to have a rest... MSA... lay-by... etc.

No matter how irritating or inconvenient they may be, none of these are legitimate reasons for stopping on a motorway hard shoulder and are mostly preventable, e.g. don't have a large meal or drink tea/coffee just before leaving. Even if you've got a medical condition which requires frequent toilet stops you would already be aware of this and should choose alternative routes. Anyway are the distances between most junctions really so great that people can't wait?

BluntGuy wrote: »

Quite simply put, our motorway network is severely lacking in these basic facilities. I disagree with stopping on the hard shoulder, but what's the alternative? Leaving the motorway and going to a town to use the services seems to be the only one. And although that's a perfectly reasonable course of action, it defeats the purpose of having motorway bypasses if you're just going to go into town anyway.

Glad you also disagree with stopping and recognise that leaving the motorway is the only correct alternative (despite avocating stopping to take a call as the only 'safe' thing).

Of course MSAs would be more convenient than going into a town however how does their absence defeat the purpose of by-passes? Not everyone needs to use services, I'd say the vast majority of travellers merrily drive on by to their destination.

BluntGuy wrote: »

If the NRA hadn't faffed about with deciding whether the network should be motorway/HQDC and hadn't flapped about deciding whether we needed MSAs or not, then I bet you the first MSAs would be under-construction or already open, with the others on the way.

True, but again not much of an excuse for stopping on the hardshoulder.

BluntGuy wrote: »

As for making calls (important calls, I must add), it is recommended you use the motorway phones rather than your mobile as it's easier to track you to an exact position. However, get stuck on any of the new M8, M6 or M9 sections and you're outta luck because phones weren't deemed necessary upon redesignation of those stretches.

Motorway phones are for emergency calls (breakdown, garda, ambulance, fire) only which is not the same as mere important calls. Anyway they are hard wired to a call centre and can't be used to dial other numbers.

BluntGuy wrote: »

My advice when stopping on the hard shoulder is to do what View Profile did. You exit on the left side of the car, and get as far into the embankment as possible. All other passengers must also leave the vehicle. The driver will then carry out whatever repair jobs are needed, or walk to the nearest telephone (ideally there should be signs pointing to where the nearest one is like in the UK/N.IRL) and phone for services. That is correct procedure.

Agreed,
but people should only be there for emergency stops such as breakdown. Stopping to take a call or hunt for the kid's soother/dummy are not emergencies. The problem is that most drivers who stop in the hardshoulder don't realise or don't care about the dangers of their action.

Stark

Frisbee wrote: »

Have you ever answered or been on your phone while driving on a motorway?

There's a little invention called Bluetooth for when you need to answer a call while driving (though I'd normally just use it to tell a person that I'm driving and I'll call them back). Tbh, there's very few phone calls that are so important that you can't wait until you're off the motorway to call the person back in my opinion.

alentejo

Over the past few years I have driven thousands of miles on both British and European motorways and as of yet have never seen anybody parked on the hard shoulder.

By contrast, nearly every time I am on a Motorway in Ireland, I see multiple vehicles parked. Sometimes I even see lorries parked illegally.

I think this is a police enforcement issue where penalty points are given out. If word soon got out that the Gardai were pursuing this, word would soon get around and people would stop doing this very dangerous activity.

corktina

I see the former laybys (now Garda only) are still being used as lotrry parks on the M8:rolleyes: what a surprise...

cml387

On this vexed layby question, the layby just before the (current) end of the M8 near Mitchelstown is marked "Garda Only" and yet always has a few lorries parked.

A similar layby northbound between Cahir and Cashel is not marked as Garda only. This seems to be cause for more confusion.

And also, northbound there is the strange case of the missing Junction 8.
J9 is the southern Cashel exit, J7 is the northern Cashel exit.

Southbound you get the answer, J8 is the exit to Clonmel, but for some reason there is no southbound access for traffic approaching Cashel from Clonmel.

BluntGuy

But the thing is, even though they do say "Garda Only" they look NOTHING LIKE normal Garda check points. Normal check points are normally small elevated little sections of road on the embankment, not long lay-by structures. I guess that's where the confusion lies...

I feel awful for saying this, but they should rip Lay-bys out altogether to preven this. I KNOW it's a massive waste of money, but nothing short of this (or putting a bunch of constantly observed cameras or stationing gardai perputually at lay-bys is going to stop truckers doing this).

Either that or they could pass a law allowing drivers to stop on Lay-bys along motorways. But again, that goes against the purpose of what a motorway is for. They are "clearways" i.e no stopping at anytime.

Wishbone Ash

It's usually done because of complete ignorance. I occasionally travel with other people and sometimes they pull over to the hard shoulder. When i point out that it's illegal, most of them admit that they never realised that it was illegal. When I show them the continuous yellow line, they usually say that they never noticed before that it was continuous.

Anyone who travels the M1 regularly will know that at around 10am each morning, many truck and van drivers can be seen taking their morning break on the hard shoulder (especially between the Lissenhall and Airport interchanges). :rolleyes:

In fairness to the coal truck driver who was killed, he pulled over to check part of his load which had become dislodged.

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

don't the gardai often put a Gatso camera under a bridge in the hard shoulder on the M1. Crazy stuff.

No, it's usually further in and off the hard shoulder.

loyatemu

I've seen people cycling on motorways, hitchhiking, running across the road and once, kicking a football down the central reservation. As with everything else in Ireland, its lack of enforcement thats the problem.

Alun

Saw a father with two young kids behind him setting a fine example by cycling along the hard shoulder of the M11 yesterday. Well, they did have cycling helmets on, I suppose

Davidth88

Basically there are two problems on Irish motorways ( well two I going to put here )

Education , people are not taught how to drive on them, indeed it seems half the drivers here don't have any lessons at all , they just strap on the L plates and off you go. Or now a days don't put on the L plates , just drive anyway . Which leads me to the next one.....

Enforcement. There is a total lack of enforcement , as I have stated in other threads . I see parked cars EVERY day on the M4 , I have seen tractors, pedestrians , people jumping into the river from the motor way, I even saw a pedestrian one day in the central reservation with a fishing rod ...
If I can see them , then are the garda patrols blind ? No , I suspect they are non-existant. In the case of the people jumping in the river I phoned the local Garda station because it was a dangerous distraction to drivers ( the guys were naked ! ) ...... guess what the local Garda station the number just rang out.( no answer )

On the M7 one time I saw a Garda car speed trapping 300 yds from a parked car when the kids were out playing in the hard shoulder !........ just about sums it up.

Wishbone Ash

Davidth88 wrote: »

I have seen tractors, pedestrians , people jumping into the river from the motor way

There is a common belief that tractors are automatically prohibited from using motorways. The regulations state that the vehicle must have an internal combustion engine and be capable of reaching a speed of 50kph. Many modern tractors, especially those equipped with suspension, are capable of speeds in excess of this and are therefore entitled to use a motorway.

The maximum permissable speed for a double deck bus on a motorway is 64kph but I have yet to see a thread here complaining about buses on motorways.

Davidth88

The regulations state that the vehicle must have an internal combustion engine and be capable of reaching a speed of 50kph. Many modern tractors, especially those equipped with suspension, are capable of speeds in excess of this and are therefore entitled to use a motorway.

Well well well , I live and learn ! Just checked the ROTR and you are right ( of course )

I learnt to drive in the UK, and passed my test there , over there the following are not allowed to be on m/ways

Motorways MUST NOT be used by pedestrians, holders of provisional motorcycle or car licences, riders of motorcycles under 50 cc, cyclists, horse riders, certain slow-moving vehicles and those carrying oversized loads (except by special permission), agricultural vehicles, and powered wheelchairs/powered mobility scooters

So I now retreat with my tail between my legs