What the NPWS are up to!

thelurcher

I have to say that my blood is boiling so I'll make this short - a friend passed on a link to the article pasted below - with all the comments I read on here about how the rangers are under staffed etc etc to control deer poaching amongst other things - it's amazes me how they can find the time to film the WUH :mad:

// Hunt's legal threat to Gormley's video spies
It is, as Oscar Wilde might say, a case of the Unreasonable in hot pursuit of the Unspeakable.
Environment Minister John Gormley is threatening to achieve overnight what hasn't happened in 154 years - evoke public sympathy for the property tycoons of the Ward Union Hunt.
Instead of simply banning the anachronistic stag hunt outright, Mr Gormley has declared a war of attrition - and, the hunters say, he has sent out an army of park rangers to videotape their activities, at an eye-watering cost to the taxpayer of EUR11,000 a pop.

The furious horsemen are threatening a legal challenge, saying the rangers are filming on private property and making tapes of children as young as 12, in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights.
Now, the Irish Mail on Sunday can reveal, the minister's advisers told him precisely the same thing - but he ignored their counsel and went ahead anyway.
It is not the first time Mr Gormley, who is the Green Party TD for Dublin South East, has refused to take legal advice on the hunt, whose members include developer Johnny Ronan and planning tribunal 'star witness' Michael Bailey. The late Charles Haughey was also a WUH member.
In granting last year's licence, Mr Gormley tried to attach limitations including a stipulation that the stag was to be caught before hunt dogs were released. The Ward Union obtained a High Court injunction restraining him from enforcing the conditions and, pending a judicial review, the department was forced into a U-turn and picked up the EUR300,000 legal tab.
Now, thanks to his ignoring of his advisers, Mr Gormley faces another court case - one that could prove equally costly.
Documents released under the Freedom of Information Act (Fol) show that the Ward Union wrote to the department, objecting to the 'unwarranted' use of video cameras and pointing out thatNational Parks and Wildlife Service Rangers could just as easily give eyewitness reports of what they observe.
In the documents released under the Fol, the department deleted the legal recommendation to Mr Gormley.
But the MoS has learned that a legal adviser informed Mr Gormley of her concerns that 'the filming of these events could be in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights for reasons of privacy'.
She also said she was 'of the view that, if at all possible, the filming of these hunt meetings should be avoided and that an eyewitness account of the meetings should be sufficient.'
After being threatened again with legal action if he did not grant the WUH a licence in a 'timely fashion' - in accord with last year's agreement - the minister did so on the September 8.
But when granting the licence, the department wrote to the WUH stating: 'The minister has considered your views and is of the opin. It is dangerous to ignore good advice' on that, as the hunt meetings are essentially public events, there is no impediment to video recording.'
To 'allay' the WUH concerns, it added that the camera operator 'avoids, where possible, filming minors and private property'.
Declan Brooks, secretary of the Ward Union, said: 'We are surprised that the minister ignored his own legal advice, even when we flagged this up with him. It is a very dangerous thing to ignore good advice.'
Luke Byrne
luke.byme@mailonsunday.ie
© Irish Mail On Sunday 16.11.08

The civil service is quite literally gone to the dogs in this country.

whitser

gormley had his eye wiped big time over this issue last year and is now desperate to be seen to be taking on the hunt and in the process making himself look even more desperate and clueless.

k_d

the man just cant give up, hes had his day in court. it was settled if you could call it that, just not the way he wanted, i hope the members of the WUH battle this and best of look to them,
many on here hunt on horses or are they al over in equestrian forum?

BryanL

whats a couple of hundred thousand to the NPWS?:eek:
shocking waste of resources,i wonder how much he is spending to control Muntjac, stop Sika spreading or stopping poaching at night? sweet FA i bet

amazing the government couldn't even afford medical cards for over 70's a few weeks ago, maybe the celtic tiger is back and he wants the rangers to film it.
Bryan

tiny-nioclas

What a waste of resources,a man like Gormley, that has such a personal and political vendetta against practical environment control and management eg. hunting/culling etc should never have got the position that that man has in government in the first place, and our government couldnt even afford our elderly a better health service, some joke:mad:

BryanL

The whole thing just smacks of a personel crusade. I suppose he wants to throw something to the animal rights groups that have supported and make up some of the green party.
I would love to know What sort of budget does the NPWS have? how much is spent on individual projects like protecting red squirrels? Is the NPWS just there for the personal whims of a Minister in charge of the Dept. for hunting who is completley opposed to hunting?
Bryan

dresden8

thelurcher wrote: »

The civil service is quite literally gone to the dogs in this country.

This is not the civil service. If you read the article the minister ignored the good advice of his civil servants and ploughed on regardless. It's the civil servants who will have to pick up the debris from yet another ministerial fiasco.

The civil service gets a lot of blame for the stupid decisions of the politicians that the people vote in. And vote in again. And again. And again.

dresden8

BryanL wrote: »

Is the NPWS just there for the personal whims of a Minister in charge of the Dept. for hunting who is completley opposed to hunting?
Bryan

Yes.

pullandbang

dresden8 wrote: »

stupid decisions of the politicians that the people vote in. And vote in again. And again. And again.

And we do it election after election........

If not us, then our spouses, friends and family. It's up to us to point out the truth to all around us and make sure the likes of the Greens never get into power again.

thelurcher

Very true - reading what I wrote earlier seems as if I'm having a pop at the rangers - have no doubt but Gormley is the target of my anger
I pity the people working under him.

dresden8 wrote: »

This is not the civil service. If you read the article the minister ignored the good advice of his civil servants and ploughed on regardless. It's the civil servants who will have to pick up the debris from yet another ministerial fiasco.

The civil service gets a lot of blame for the stupid decisions of the politicians that the people vote in. And vote in again. And again. And again.

NoNameRanger

thelurcher wrote: »

Very true - reading what I wrote earlier seems as if I'm having a pop at the rangers - have no doubt but Gormley is the target of my anger
I pity the people working under him.

It's not all going the Ministers way. The minister requested that every hunt (two a week if my memory serves correctly) must be followed. This has not happened yet and will not happen, he can't find the staff to do it, surprise surprise. There is absolutely zero enthusiasm for this work by either Rangers or Managers. There was a country wide call for Rangers to volunteer. I don't think there were any apart from the few anti's we have, then it became an order, a lot of Rangers became unavailable for this "high priority job" passed down by the minister. If i was forced to do it the camera might get broke, i can be such a butter fingers with things like that. For the few anti's in our ranks that volunteered and the others that he does manage to force out there, well, they won't see much from a van anyway, as you know yourself. But it will help him keep his party happy for a while. :rolleyes:
And would more of you lads please start applying for Ranger jobs and stop leaving the doors open for treehuggers:o:rolleyes:

Vegeta

NoNameRanger wrote: »

It's not all going the Ministers way. The minister requested that every hunt (two a week if my memory serves correctly) must be followed. This has not happened yet and will not happen, he can't find the staff to do it, surprise surprise. There is absolutely zero enthusiasm for this work by either Rangers or Managers. There was a country wide call for Rangers to volunteer. I don't think there were any apart from the few anti's we have, then it became an order, a lot of Rangers became unavailable for this "high priority job" passed down by the minister. If i was forced to do it the camera might get broke, i can be such a butter fingers with things like that. For the few anti's in our ranks that volunteered and the others that he does manage to force out there, well, they won't see much from a van anyway, as you know yourself. But it will help him keep his party happy for a while. :rolleyes:
And would more of you lads please start applying for Ranger jobs and stop leaving the doors open for treehuggers:o:rolleyes:

Would they hire someone who only has hunting experience though. A lot of people here wouldn't be qualified I'd imagine (myself included)

BryanL

Nice to hear that, No name ranger,

i have a few friends that'd like being rangers i reckon. I certainly point them in that direction.
Bryan

thelurcher

NoNameRanger wrote: »

It's not all going the Ministers way. The minister requested that every hunt (two a week if my memory serves correctly) must be followed. This has not happened yet and will not happen, he can't find the staff to do it, surprise surprise. There is absolutely zero enthusiasm for this work by either Rangers or Managers. There was a country wide call for Rangers to volunteer. I don't think there were any apart from the few anti's we have, then it became an order, a lot of Rangers became unavailable for this "high priority job" passed down by the minister. If i was forced to do it the camera might get broke, i can be such a butter fingers with things like that. For the few anti's in our ranks that volunteered and the others that he does manage to force out there, well, they won't see much from a van anyway, as you know yourself. But it will help him keep his party happy for a while. :rolleyes:
And would more of you lads please start applying for Ranger jobs and stop leaving the doors open for treehuggers:o:rolleyes:

Fair dues to everyone that stood up to him - where does he come up with these 'initiatives' :rolleyes:

meathstevie

Right to privacy and government officials filming what's basicly a perfectly legal activity.....would be nice to see the outcome in court. If Mr. Gormley can justify the need for this type of surveillance and the courts accept it OK but I can see it being quite a struggle to let a court accept such resources and intrusiveness being needed to monitor something that's not illegal.

dresden8

Can a minister legally order his civil servants to carry out an allegedly illegal act, i.e. film children?

That sentence could probably be drafted 20 better ways but you know what I mean.

meathstevie

You can't order someone to do something illegal and expect to be operating inside the law. This applies especially to human rights related issues. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if there's some code of ethics floating around somewhere in the NPWS that obliges a member of staff to report this sort of orders.

Anyway, no matter what you don't carry out illegal orders. The humblest private can tell the chief of staff to get stuffed ( do it politely though ) if he issues an illegal order.