Slow or a player?

LegacyUser

Have been on about 6 dates with a guy over a couple of months. We haven't slept together so far but there's a lot of chemistry.
We've had 'the chat' and he has said he isn't seeing what we're doing as a relationship or dating, just getting to know each other over time, and it may become a relationship if we're right for each other. When questioned he said he may see other people while this is going on.
I've said that we won't see each other until he can guarantee it's exclusive, and I mean it.
However, I feel a really strong connection with him, one that I haven't felt for a long long time. I know that he feels something too.
Now there's taking things slow and there's what he's talking about which I've never come across before... How likely is it that he genuinely wants to take things slow versus the obvious conclusion that he's just a player? I want to believe the first in which case I'll wait and see what happens, if he comes round. If it's the second then I'll try hard to move on...

Wibbs

Probably the actual "obvious conclusion", he's taking his time to get to know you. A player would have likely bedded you by now. Any players I've known would have anyway. Usually that's all they want.

LegacyUser

gosh, thanks for the quick reply wibbs...
My friends are telling me to drop him fast, but they've seen how upset I get when I don't hear from him etc. I am working on my insecurities, I've been going for weekly counselling for a while now and feeling better about myself...
How can I make this work if he's also seeing other people though? It's a dealbreaker for me especially if we sleep together, which I do really want to do...

star-pants

Would agree with Wibbs - it's somewhat normal it seems for guys and girls to be open in the early stages of dating - in the sense that they may have clicked with a few people, don't want all their eggs in one basket so are taking their time getting to know the person first to see if they'd be a good match, or just a friend. If he was a player I reckon he would have tried to push the physical side of things more by now, he could just be being cautious and has an interest in someone else he's ''getting to know'' so doesn't want to make promises to anyone yet.

shellyboo

Unregistered wrote: »

Have been on about 6 dates with a guy over a couple of months. We haven't slept together so far but there's a lot of chemistry.
We've had 'the chat' and he has said he isn't seeing what we're doing as a relationship or dating, just getting to know each other over time, and it may become a relationship if we're right for each other. When questioned he said he may see other people while this is going on.

This is so bizzare. Have you kissed him? Is there any kind of intimacy happening at all?

If you have and there is then what you are doing with this guy is dating, whether he likes it or not.

Guys who are all "I don't want a relationship" but yet want to spend time with you, go out on dates, have sex, and be part of your life piss me off - that IS a relationship. Men seem to think they can glean all the good bits of having a gf from a girl without any commitment just by saying 'I don't want a relationship'. But anyway... tangent.

It sort of seems like he's trying to relieve himself of any responsibility for your feelings - keeping his options open, as it were... and I know I wouldn't be sitting still for too long for a guy who was on the lookout for something better to come along. Tbh, that "if we're right for eachother" comment kind of sounds like, "If I decide we're right for eachother".

He's hedging his bets. Fair enough, he hasn't slept with you yet... but he's still messing you around, imo.

LegacyUser

shellyboo wrote: »

If you have and there is then what you are doing with this guy is dating, whether he likes it or not.

It sort of seems like he's trying to relieve himself of any responsibility for your feelings - keeping his options open, as it were...

He's hedging his bets. Fair enough, he hasn't slept with you yet... but he's still messing you around, imo.

Thanks shellyboo, these are all (almost word for word) things I've said/ thought over the last while.

We haven't gone so far as to have sex, but we have been physical, and there's a strong attraction there. Things would have gone further if I'd allowed, but I wanted to have an idea what we were doing first. He says it's not about sex either, as in, it's not because we haven't slept together that he may see other people...

not yet

Sounds very like the new york way of doing things, They see lots of people at the same time until they decide to become exclusive with one.

I agree with the above comment about him bedding you by now if he was a player, that's what I done oops would do.

Wibbs

star-pants wrote: »

Would agree with Wibbs - it's somewhat normal it seems for guys and girls to be open in the early stages of dating - in the sense that they may have clicked with a few people, don't want all their eggs in one basket so are taking their time getting to know the person first to see if they'd be a good match, or just a friend. If he was a player I reckon he would have tried to push the physical side of things more by now, he could just be being cautious and has an interest in someone else he's ''getting to know'' so doesn't want to make promises to anyone yet.

Nail on the head there.

I agree with not yet too. Sounds like the new york dating thing. Both angles have their advantages and disadvantages.

I don't think he'a a player in the sexual sense anyway. If he was he wouldnt have told you about the other women and he would have bedded you by now. He knows you're not happy with this. At least not happy enough to lift your skirt, so if that was his aim, he's crap at being a player. Then again a really good manipulating type would tell you. That way no matter what, he can say "well I did tell you". He could be an emotional player. They're out there too. More common than the walking willy types.

It boils down to your level of discomfort. If it's upsetting you then call him on it. He may say lets go exclusive or he may not, but you do get an answer you can move forward from. Going for counseling(fair play) for insecurity while this is going on is gonna be a headwreck of course. Imagine if you weren't insecure at all, would you call him on this? That would be your answer(not necessarily yes either btw)

LegacyUser

Wibbs wrote: »

Nail on the head there.

I agree with not yet too. Sounds like the new york dating thing. Both angles have their advantages and disadvantages.

I don't think he'a a player in the sexual sense anyway. If he was he wouldnt have told you about the other women and he would have bedded you by now. He knows you're not happy with this. At least not happy enough to lift your skirt, so if that was his aim, he's crap at being a player. Then again a really good manipulating type would tell you. That way no matter what, he can say "well I did tell you". He could be an emotional player. They're out there too. More common than the walking willy types.

It boils down to your level of discomfort. If it's upsetting you then call him on it. He may say lets go exclusive or he may not, but you do get an answer you can move forward from. Going for counseling(fair play) for insecurity while this is going on is gonna be a headwreck of course. Imagine if you weren't insecure at all, would you call him on this? That would be your answer(not necessarily yes either btw)

To his credit, he instigated the conversation. He is comfortable, I'm not and he knows it. I've called him on it. I've said I can't see him unless it's exclusive. I've said there's no pressure or heaviness, but I can't get my head around seeing other people (I genuinely don't understand it, I would give each person a fair chance without distractions from other guys, always). He says he can't, it's just not how he sees things.
So we're kind of at stalemate, but I have left the door open for him to let me know if he changes his mind, and told him to stay in touch either way. It does feel like an inevitablility that we'll end up back at square one again though.

I'm not sure at all what I'd do if I was not insecure - in my stronger moments I think he has a very good point, there is no rush, and I'm not in any rush either. I'm enjoying the space.
In one way I really admire his honesty. My friends think he's taking the proverbial...

If I was perfecly secure, I'd possibly go out and meet other people too, but I probably wouldn't. I've never done it and don't condemn anyone, it's just not for me.

It's the seeing other people, and the fear that I'll fall for him in a big way and he'll meet someone else he likes better that's getting me (which I do realise could happen no matter what the arrangement might be).

I have thought also of making the most of this time out to continue the counselling and see what happens at the end if we do meet up again when I'm feeling more centred.

littlebug

i think you've done the right thing OP. I haven't been in the dating game for a long time but that "style" of dating would do my head in. You're not comfortable with it and it's adding to your already present insecurities so you're right to step back from it.
I honestly can't imagine seeing someone, liking them, kissing them and more on a regularish basis and being ok with the fact that they're doing the exact same and more with other people
OK you can admire him for being honest but it doesn't mean you have to fall into line and be ok with it. Kudos to you and hopefully a boost to your self esteem for taking some control.

LegacyUser

littlebug wrote: »

I honestly can't imagine seeing someone, liking them, kissing them and more on a regularish basis and being ok with the fact that they're doing the exact same and more with other people

Neither can I, I know it won't make me happy. I need to stand my ground. If he was interested enough I don't think we'd be having the conversation.

shellyboo

Unregistered wrote: »

We haven't gone so far as to have sex, but we have been physical, and there's a strong attraction there. Things would have gone further if I'd allowed, but I wanted to have an idea what we were doing first. He says it's not about sex either, as in, it's not because we haven't slept together that he may see other people...

Ok, well, I'll repeat what I said... you're dating this guy. What you two are doing is dating. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... it's a duck.

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't think he'a a player in the sexual sense anyway...

...Then again a really good manipulating type would tell you. That way no matter what, he can say "well I did tell you". He could be an emotional player. They're out there too. More common than the walking willy types.

+1

But he IS a player. He's definitely playing the field by wanting to see other people, and I would say that he's playing with the OP as well.

Tbh - and bearing in mind that I'm extremely cynical - he could be getting his jollies elsewhere and that's why he's prepared to wait for the OP.

OP, he sounds very manipulative to me - and I hate to be harsh, but for me it sounds like one of two options: he's playing you and waiting for you to cave, or he's just not that into you

vandermeyde

Unregistered wrote: »

I have thought also of making the most of this time out to continue the counselling and see what happens at the end if we do meet up again when I'm feeling more centred.

He sounds like a headwreck to be honest and I'd advise that you concentrate on getting yourself right rather than let him play games with you.

LegacyUser

shellyboo wrote: »

Ok, well, I'll repeat what I said... you're dating this guy. What you two are doing is dating. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... it's a duck.

I agree

shellyboo wrote: »

Tbh - and bearing in mind that I'm extremely cynical - he could be getting his jollies elsewhere and that's why he's prepared to wait for the OP.

Then I'm cynical too because the same thing crossed my mind more than once.

shellyboo wrote: »

OP, he sounds very manipulative to me - and I hate to be harsh, but for me it sounds like one of two options: he's playing you and waiting for you to cave, or he's just not that into you

Both possibilities have also occurred to me. I've fallen into the trap of a manipulator before and it's not going to happen again. My gut says he's not a manipulator though.
I have said to him if he was really interested we wouldn't be having these conversations.
I won't cave though, not happening.
I'll go with my plan of seeing how the counselling goes, take this time for myself and see if he comes around. Maybe he will. I know I probably sound deluded, but there's more to this, I really feel there is.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Maybe try and get him to like you? You know, try to charm him etc, or do you expect it's only up to men to do that?

He's been honest with you, walk away if you're unhappy but I don't think he's messed you around. I get the impression you're a lot more interested than he is and you're pissed off about that, but it's easier to just decide he's messing you around.

Wibbs

Of course the rarer possibility is that he is who he is. He wants to take the time to make an important decision for him and the person he's with on a compatibility front. He could be subconsciously testing for insecurity in his dates. Its more than a bit cold though. A fully self realised person would not mistake "honesty" for taking the píss.

shellyboo

Wibbs wrote: »

Of course the rarer possibility is that he is who he is. He wants to take the time to make an important decision for him and the person he's with on a compatibility front. He could be subconsciously testing for insecurity in his dates. Its more than a bit cold though. A fully self realised person would not mistake "honesty" for taking the píss.

This is a great point... but it's the fact that he wants to see other people while he's taking his sweet time that jars with me. Surely after seeing someone for a few months you'd know if you were compatible or not? And if you're not sure after a few months, would that not tell you something? It's either there or it's not, you know?

LegacyUser

Wibbs wrote: »

Of course the rarer possibility is that he is who he is. He wants to take the time to make an important decision for him and the person he's with on a compatibility front. He could be subconsciously testing for insecurity in his dates. Its more than a bit cold though. A fully self realised person would not mistake "honesty" for taking the píss.

It's what I'd like to believe, the first part anyway. As for testing his dates I'm not so sure. Either way, taking his time isn't the problem, I would respect that, it's the seeing other people while he does. It doesn't work for me.

vorbis

What age are you OP?

I'm wondering as a barring religious reasons, a normal adult relationship would have resulted in sex long before now.

AS a guy, my take is quite simple, there's no real relationship until there's sex involved. Exclusivity shouldn't even be a topic at the moment.

~nop~

I'm following this thread with interest because im in pretty much the same situation atm, except that it's not bothering me as much. Don't have any advice for you though, except that you should try and make sure you don't get too attached to this guy for the moment, and just see how your ultimatium goes.
A few months is a pretty long time alright, but maybe the guys not just the type to settle down. Be wary anyway just in case you should end up getting hurt!

daisybelle2008

Well whatever he is, it is a mindf*ck for you. TBH he has been upfront about his playing the field while he makes up his mind and sees if there is anything better out there. You find that impossible and have told him and are now in a stalemate. What you are asking here is how can I make him jump to my tune?
Ironically his actions are driving you to obsess about him more. With your insecurities etc. he is not a good match for you. But it is kind of catch 22, he is attractive to you because he is dangling the golden carrott inches away from your face while persuing other women.
It is dangerous for you, you say you will end up back at square one. Yeah you will as long as you don't accept what he is saying to you.
Your head is wrecked from him and you are not even 'dating or in a relationship' according to him!! Imagine what it will be like if you get further along and he wants an open relationship.
He has tried to get into your knickers already, personally I think he will be gone as soon as you let him.

LegacyUser

vorbis wrote: »

What age are you OP?

I'm wondering as a barring religious reasons, a normal adult relationship would have resulted in sex long before now.

AS a guy, my take is quite simple, there's no real relationship until there's sex involved. Exclusivity shouldn't even be a topic at the moment.

OP here again. I'm early 30's. I just don't throw sex around like I might have when I was younger. It's obviously on the agenda, but it's not something I'm prepared to go through with until I know where I stand. This guy hasn't been as available as I'd like so far and that's why I haven't been comfortable to sleep with him. At the moment I'm glad I didn't. It's not a huge issue, but I wouldn't be comfortable taking that next step without some sort of committment on his part. Which is a pity cos I'm actually dying to sleep with him.

LegacyUser

I just don't know. I've probably changed my mind 10 times in the course of this thread...

It's all theoretical anyway, as what he wants isn't going to happen.
Funnily enough, I dropped a comment about him playing with my heart the other evening and he got quite annoyed... he reckons I'm the one playing him!

metrovelvet

Your dating him but he's not dating you, already a difference in perspective.

So he sees you as a friend? Sounds like an imbalance in the relationship. My suspcicion is your are on the subs bench. That he is seeing someone and it is either about to end or just beginning and you are back up for when/if it falls through.

Either way its wrecking your head, enough to exit.

Kirnsy

what about the classic ultimatum

"me and only me or no me"?


this will clear things up sharpish no?

tommmy1979

Tell him to make up his mind...actually, no... don't tell him that, tell him that you've wasted enough time with him. In all fairness.. a couple of months? Jeebus, we're here for a good time not a long time. I'm a firm DISbeliever in the whole soulmate idea. So many times at the end of a relationship have i thought to myself "I'll never meet another girl like her again" and then i go and prove myself wrong. There's plenty of fish in the sea OP.

Monkey61

ah come on now...it surely can't take more than 6 dates to decide if you like someone or not? If I like someone, I want to go out with them and I would usually know that pretty quickly. It couldn't take that long to decide.

I don't think that just cos you're not sleeping with him, that it's cool for him to see other people while he makes up his mind if he likes you enough. It sounds like you are auditioning for him...and he's the one who ultimately gets to decide if he wants you or not.

LegacyUser

Thanks everyone for all the responses, it's given me a lot to think about.

To Wibbs, I thought a lot about one of your remarks - that a self-realised person would tell the difference between honesty and taking the piss, is how I interpreted it. Well, at the moment I'm not even self-actualised I would say, so maybe I should take a big step back from all this until I sort that out. My therapist thought it would be ok to continue this as long as I took it slowly, but this isn't what I had in mind.

We're in touch still, but I'm going to keep it very light, no flirting, just chatting, and no meeting unless he changes his tune. And I'll probably try to go on another date or two and see what happens there.

Thanks again everyone.

Wibbs

Unregistered wrote: »

To Wibbs, I thought a lot about one of your remarks - that a self-realised person would tell the difference between honesty and taking the piss, is how I interpreted it. Well, at the moment I'm not even self-actualised I would say, so maybe I should take a big step back from all this until I sort that out.

I was thinking in terms of both him and you. If he's self centered and not self aware, he may say he understands, but actually doesn't or chooses not to take steps to avoiding hurting you. If you feel insecure and caught in the past, then the decisions you may make are still based on that past. Naturally. Decisions, even everyday ones that I have made in the past were based on my mindset at the time and my expectations. If I was down decisions made were based on that. If I was happy again those decisions were based on that too. Everyones are to some degree or other. If you feel you currently don't have the mindset to deal or work through this, or you feel you'll make a holy hames of it then I would say back off.

My therapist thought it would be ok to continue this as long as I took it slowly, but this isn't what I had in mind.

No. I can see your point. Continental drift is overtaking him at this stage.

Then again maybe he came along at the right time in a way. Maybe his slowness and dating others is forcing a rethink in a healthy way in your mind. A rewiring of unhealthy processes as it were. Maybe before therapy and you deciding to move forward with yourself, you may have been prone to just go along with this kinda thing. The fact that you're not is surely a good thing, regardless of how he feels or doesn't. Just a thought.

We're in touch still, but I'm going to keep it very light, no flirting, just chatting, and no meeting unless he changes his tune. And I'll probably try to go on another date or two and see what happens there.

Good plan. You start to drive what you want in this. If he doesn't follw well chalk it up to experience. What's for you, won't go by you. A cliched oul saying, but often true.

city girl

He sounds to be very selfish and cold, he is keeping his options open by keeping you on the back burner. The danger is that two months will turn into twelve or longer, you will become emotionally attached while he will simply become accustomed to the "arrangement" he has with you. Don't be played, you will be the one who gets hurt in this situation. Let him either nail his colours to the post or let him off to his other women.

Madame Razz

Wibbs wrote: »

Of course the rarer possibility is that he is who he is. He wants to take the time to make an important decision for him and the person he's with on a compatibility front. He could be subconsciously testing for insecurity in his dates. Its more than a bit cold though. A fully self realised person would not mistake "honesty" for taking the píss.

I think men, even the most complicated baggage laden men, even the epic player, can be wonderfully uncomplicated when they want to be. They can make things as simple as the alphabet when they want something. Monkey see monkey want monkey do.

Take the relationship I'm in at the moment. We were introduced, we got on well, we kissed at the end of the night, we swopped numbers, he rang the following day and invited me to dinner, we went to dinner, he invited me on a second date, and then a third, then he asked me out. He had not slept with me at this point either I might add, though we did spend the night of the third date together. Why did he do this?? Because he liked me, because he wanted to be with me. SIMPLE SIMPLE SIMPLE, uncomplicated and black and white....this is what happens when the two male brains agree.

Personally OP, I think this guy is taking the piss, and if you are already dealing with issues you don't need this BS. Its time to quit the wishful thinking, if he wanted to be with you he would be. I don't mean to be harsh, but its the truth.

Run before you get even more attached. Whatever about the whole sex issue, if he actually wanted to be with you, he would not be maintaining his outside position on the open market so to speak. He wants to have his cake and eat it.... may I suggest you shut down your bakery.

MH