Who fancy's teaching me how to play online cash games?

Kamaldihnio

Who fancy's teaching me how to play online NL cash games?

The truth is I am brutal at this game.

I only play online STT's, MTT'S, a bit of live cash and the very rare live tournament.

Poker tracker is something I have never used and wouldn't know where to start. I presume this is useful if not essential for online cash.

Its a bit embarrassing really but I have never tried to improve my online cash game, the truth is I never play it anymore and have not done so properly for over a year.

Is it easy to be a winning player playing online cash? I don't think so personally but maybe it is!

I think I'm an ok player, love playing the game and always willing and wanting to improve but don't play cards as much as I used to as I cant seem to find the time.

Nevertheless I still play a bit and maybe some winning players can PM me with some useful info.

It would be much appreciated, cheers!

H8GHOTI

pm Twinksno1flan - he's very helpful!

H8GHOTI

^^^ That's a joke, please don't pm him.

Kamaldihnio wrote: »

I only play online STT's, MTT'S, a bit of live cash and the very rare live tournament.

Are you good a SNGs & MTTS and bad at cash?

Kamaldihnio wrote: »

Poker tracker is something I have never used and wouldn't know where to start. I presume this is useful if not essential for online cash.

I'd say it's useful, maybe the higher the stakes the more benifit you'd get from it. Not essential.

Kamaldihnio wrote: »

Is it easy to be a winning player playing online cash? I don't think so personally but maybe it is!

No you're right, it's not. But it is possible.

Kamaldihnio wrote: »

I think I'm an ok player, love playing the game and always willing and wanting to improve but don't play cards as much as I used to as I cant seem to find the time.

Good attitude, it helps.

flushje

gl to you, but is Poker Tracker is essential is you are in a anyway serious

hotspur

http://www.pokerswat.com/

Training videos are what you need, they are the new having talent.

opr

http://dailyvariance.com/index.php/Poker-Coaching/Book.html

Opr

Slash/ED

I disagree, PT/Holdem manager are Completely essential. Especially if you aren't a winning player already, it can help you plug so many leaks and turn that around as well as the Hud benefits. Get HEM if you want to have a real shot at online cash, without a shadow of a doubt.

TommyGunne

HEM is vital. You can assume most guys you will be playing against have it so you are simply giving them an edge by not getting it.

Is the cousin not forthcoming with help????!!!!!!

Flipz4Rollz

All the video training sites are v.good for getting you started

HM is essential IMO if you're multi-tabling and its not that costly

Also looking in the 2plus2 small stakes NL is very helpful

Tight Ted

hotspur wrote: »

http://www.pokerswat.com/

Training videos are what you need, they are the new having talent.

If people on the golf forum were watching golf instructional DVDs, would you start saying golf instructional DVDs were the new having talent?:rolleyes:

Treehouse72

OP, what you are looking for is called "coaching". I have been lead to believe you can acquire it on the open market in the form of a commercial transaction whereby you (the "student") pays a second party (the "coach") some money (€/$/£) in return for aforementioned "coaching".

H8GHOTI

I really don't think PT or HM are essential. It's not impossible to win without them.

No doubt they are valuable tools and beneficial to ones game, I just think essential is a bit too strong a word. Am I just being pedantic?

As stated above they are relatively cheap & would be a good investment if taking this serious and trying move up through the levels.

1-tabling 20nl => I wouldn't bother
4-tabling 100nl+ => No brainer

Slash/ED

Even one tabling 20nl I'd buy HEM. Not so much for the HUD in that case, but for being able to analyse your own game and plug your own leaks. Afterall if anything at 20nl it's the best time to do that before you develop habbits and before you're playing high enough for the leaks to cost alot of money

Tight Ted

If you don't wanna download PT/HEM, play on Cake poker. They're not allowed there, so you're on a level playing field to everyone else.

I 8 table .5/1 there. EZ.

AdMMM

I'm surprised there's even 8 tables going on cake! I found it hard to get 4 $50NL tables running at once while I was there.

I really don't think PT or HM are essential. It's not impossible to win without them.

True, it's not impossible to win without them, but at the same time you want to try and maximise your edge. By passing on a nominal initial investment, you are pretty much just pissing value away!

Hosef

AdMMM wrote: »

I'm surprised there's even 8 tables going on cake! I found it hard to get 4 $50NL tables running at once while I was there.

Used to get 4 tables of 100NL running fairly easily a few months back.
True, you don't have the same amount of choice, but the standard is poor enough that game selection isn't as big a priority as on iPoker

Mr.Plough

Tight Ted wrote: »

I 8 table .5/1 there. EZ.

NickyOD

Hud is probably very necessary for grinding on lots of tables. At 2/4 I prefer to play less tables without a hud.

Kamaldihnio

I've been in bed all day as I am working nights this week so I am only getting back now.

The game I have a problem with is online cash, I suppose I could improve on live tournaments but the fact I've only ever played around 3 would prob have something to do with that. I'm definitely not saying I am brilliant at MTT'S, STT's or live cash but I feel I can hold my own. Online cash always ends in tears, 80% of the time anyway.

To answer your question Tommy Gunne, No! I teach him how to play Tiger Woods golf on the PS3 and that's the only teaching going on between us. If he is reading this he is brooooootal and pays for my lunch every week with his tenners and scores. He doesn't play poker anymore or so he says anyway.

Lads I don't know what HUD is, HM is holdem manager I presume and HEM is HM?

Was wondering what software do I need? Surely not 3 different kinds or do I? Because I honestly don't know. How much is this software?

Is there a special strategy people use for online cash games? This is prob my most important question.

Any books out there that are good and specifically teach you about online cash?

Nobody has pm'd me anyway but I still appreciate the feedback.

Thanks in advance

Drakar

I notice very few videos have HUDs in them, maybe they don't want to be shown to support a particular product or something, but its weird since the sites have discount agreements.

The full HEM is $80, or $50 for small stakes (you can upgrade later).

Hosef

Kamaldihnio wrote: »

Lads I don't know what HUD is, HM is holdem manager I presume and HEM is HM?

Was wondering what software do I need? Surely not 3 different kinds or do I? Because I honestly don't know. How much is this software?

HUD = Heads Up Display
Programs like Poker Tracker (PT) and Hold'em Manager (HM / HEM) store all your hand history files in a database on your PC.
The HUD overlays statistics from this database onto the table you are playing on for the other players in the hand.

This is where stats like 24/17/3 that are referred to in the theory forum come from. They are used to give an insight into other players tendencies.

Both Pt and HM have built in HUDs, so you do not need to purchase separately

semibluff

Kamaldihnio,

you've received replies letting you know all you need to become a competent poker player. Why look for pm's? when you get the time, spend it looking at forums, posting hand histories and learning from the replies and reading some strategy articles. Its the same as with most things, there is no quick fix. If you work on it, then there are benefits to be had from it. Try using whichever of the tools described to you that suits you best. Good luck

H8GHOTI

Kamaldihnio wrote: »

..... I'm definitely not saying I am brilliant at MTT'S, STT's or live cash but I feel I can hold my own. Online cash always ends in tears, 80% of the time anyway.....

......Is there a special strategy people use for online cash games? This is prob my most important question.........

I wouldn't really say there's a special strategy for cash, where you can just click your fingers & start winning regularly. It takes time & effort.

There are a few differences between tournaments & cash. Some people find cash boring and more of a grind. It can get repetitive. Obviously the blinds don't increase, so you don't usually end up in push or fold situations as often. Average stacks are ~100BB, therefore more play happens post flop and so more skill is required.

Two things I found that I needed when moving to cash, maybe you're the same, was more patience & better tilt control. If I suffered a badbeat in a MTT and got knocked out I could just stop playing and chill. It's like meh, I just lost $20 or whatever and got a couple of hours play for it. In cash games, even playing 20nl, you can lose the same amount in one hand. Just an example, I have no idea what level you're playing at.

Every time you lose a big pot, it can affect you (especially if you're not rolled) and then you top up and keep playing while tilted. So it's important you play at a level you're rolled for, so any beats don't affect you as much.

If you suffer from boredom try and find something to alleviate it. I find listening to music helps. For improving your play read, watch videos and post hands or specific questions in the theory section.

mits2006

Use your money setting up a cardrunners or pokerswat account.Hundreds of videos which should help u a lot:D

DeadMoney

Join cardrunners imo. Study brystmar's SSNL series, aswell as the other vids on micro stakes. Adhere to the 6-max hand chart. Purchase poker tracker or HEM, and get grinding at the micro limits. If you study the game, apply good bankroll management, and are motivated, you should move up over time. Coaching sites are definitely the way to go and I don't think that personal coaching is required to learn to beat micro-small stakes. It is more for players who are progressing on to the mid stakes games. I have not had the pleasure of checking out pokerswat yet but I am sure this is a fine coaching site also.
Good Luck!

Kamaldihnio

Interesting replies.

What's better poker tracker or holdem manager?

I would like to start playing 100NL.

What kind of bankroll should I have to play this?

How many tables would you recommend to be playing at once?

Would you say play 6 tables and only play strong hands? Or would you play 2 tables and from time to time play any 2 cards in position and try and outplay your opponent? Which way of playing is more profitable for online cash? What is the best strategy to use when you do not know your opponent and cant get reads from them?

For example if I go to a card club and play live I generally know after an hour or two who is good and bad and who I am going to make my money off, I have not been to any live game without players like this in my life and have been playing for years. But online, you rarely find these players as most people are serious about their poker. Is this not a fair statement? I know you do find maniacs and its great when it happens, you just wait to get a hand against them but this is not always the case.

How are you making your money when you play 6 players who know how to play the game, all are on poker forums and understand the concept of position, outs and know the strength of their hands pre and post flop? Are you just relying on good cards? If you get good cards its very rare you are getting paid unless you get AA against KK or QQ (just an example) but this can also happen to you, which it does I am sure, so where are we making money?

I genuinely thought there was a strategy to online cash games which is different to live cash games. Maybe I was wrong.

One person pm'd me and said he would show me the ropes, the worrying thing is he only has 20 odd posts but I will take a chance and listen to him. Without sounding ungrateful or a ge*bag, was kinda hoping some recognised boards players I hear about beating 100nl and 200nl to pm me and tell me their strategy. Probably a bit too much info to ask for.

Eitherway PM's are not essential, you are right, I need to put my own work into it. I do appreciate them though.

Thanks for the feedback.

Grafter

A couple of years ago trolls were so amateurish and only wrote short posts.

AdMMM

recognised boards players I hear about beating 100nl and 200nl and could programme bots to beat it, to pm me and tell me their strategy. Probably a bit too much info to ask for.

Sorry, what?

Kamaldihnio

AdMMM wrote: »

Sorry, what?

Is this not the case? Maybe I got that wrong too. Honestly looking for advice rather than one liner sorry whats? If I said something which isnt correct, fair enough, these are things I assumed.

DeadMoney

I assume you have $3000 bankroll if you are going to be playing 100NL???

Kamaldihnio

DeadMoney wrote: »

I assume you have $3000 bankroll if you are going to be playing 100NL???

Yeah I could swing that. Why what do you reccomend? 50NL and a 1500$ bankroll?

Kamaldihnio

Grafter wrote: »

A couple of years ago trolls were so amateurish and only wrote short posts.

Cheers man! Nice one, LOL!

DeadMoney

Yeah roughly 30 buy in's at what ever level you are playing. You could take shots with 25 but 30 is a good safety net. I would also start at 25NL if I had no experience with online cash games. I'd play a large enough sample to make sure I could beat these games before moving up. Remember, online cash games are a lot tougher than live games. The standard at 25nl is better that a lot of player you will see playing live in casinos around Ireland imo

Kamaldihnio

DeadMoney wrote: »

Yeah roughly 30 buy in's at what ever level you are playing. You could take shots with 25 but 30 is a good safety net. I would also start at 25NL if I had no experience with online cash games. I'd play a large enough sample to make sure I could beat these games before moving up. Remember, online cash games are a lot tougher than live games. The standard at 25nl is better that a lot of player you will see playing live in casinos around Ireland imo

I totally agree with you about the standard so maybe I will take your advice. How many tables do you reccomend playing? What kind of money should you hope to make?

DeadMoney

I would 4 table 6-max. Your win rate would depend on the sample size. The larger, the more accurate it would be. A rate of 5bb/100 would be pretty good. I haven't got a huge amount of experience with cash games so I'm probably not the best person to be asking. Anyway just grind it out and see how you get on. Building your confidence is important before moving up. Get comfortable with the play and review your sessions after playing. Look over any key hands where you won or lost money and see if you could have played it any differently. Playing a solid TAG game would yield a decent win rate at these limits. Get used to putting your opponents on hand ranges and try stay away from making any plays that are too crazy. The level of thinking at 25NL and 50Nl will not be too deep so playing some what nitty is often fine at these limits. Just concentrate on making +EV plays and the results will take care of themselves.
GL

Grafter

Kamaldihnio Rauoool Gonzalez

compared to forums, poker is easy

Kamaldihnio

DeadMoney wrote: »

I would 4 table 6-max. Your win rate would depend on the sample size. The larger, the more accurate it would be. A rate of 5bb/100 would be pretty good. I haven't got a huge amount of experience with cash games so I'm probably not the best person to be asking. Anyway just grind it out and see how you get on. Building your confidence is important before moving up. Get comfortable with the play and review your sessions after playing. Look over any key hands where you won or lost money and see if you could have played it any differently. Playing a solid TAG game would yield a decent win rate at these limits. Get used to putting your opponents on hand ranges and try stay away from making any plays that are too crazy. The level of thinking at 25NL and 50Nl will not be too deep so playing some what nitty is often fine at these limits. Just concentrate on making +EV plays and the results will take care of themselves.
GL

Is there any reason that you suggest 6 max opposed to 8 or 10 player tables?

Sorry for my ignorance but whats a +EV play?

I think I will start at 50 NL and go from there. As I said in my op I dont play as often as I used to but still play a bit and would really just like to be able to play online cash with the confidence I can play online Stt's, Mtt's or live cash with.

Once again thanks for all the feedback.

In work here bored, laptop screen is broke so no poker for the last few days. Always play poker on my night shift, sweet way to pass the night!

HoLLLLLaments

what skills have you got that you could coach in in exchange for cash game coaching?

Tight Ted

HoLLLLLaments wrote: »

what skills have you got that you could coach in in exchange for cash game coaching?

Wow that's pretty risque.

Gholimoli

Grafter wrote: »

A couple of years ago trolls were so amateurish and only wrote short posts.

i can assure you he is no troll and he is actually for real.
as funny as that sounds but it's ture.

cooker3

Kamaldihnio wrote: »

Interesting replies.

What's better poker tracker or holdem manager?

I would like to start playing 100NL.

What kind of bankroll should I have to play this?

How many tables would you recommend to be playing at once?

Would you say play 6 tables and only play strong hands? Or would you play 2 tables and from time to time play any 2 cards in position and try and outplay your opponent? Which way of playing is more profitable for online cash? What is the best strategy to use when you do not know your opponent and cant get reads from them?

For example if I go to a card club and play live I generally know after an hour or two who is good and bad and who I am going to make my money off, I have not been to any live game without players like this in my life and have been playing for years. But online, you rarely find these players as most people are serious about their poker. Is this not a fair statement? I know you do find maniacs and its great when it happens, you just wait to get a hand against them but this is not always the case.

How are you making your money when you play 6 players who know how to play the game, all are on poker forums and understand the concept of position, outs and know the strength of their hands pre and post flop? Are you just relying on good cards? If you get good cards its very rare you are getting paid unless you get AA against KK or QQ (just an example) but this can also happen to you, which it does I am sure, so where are we making money?

I genuinely thought there was a strategy to online cash games which is different to live cash games. Maybe I was wrong.

One person pm'd me and said he would show me the ropes, the worrying thing is he only has 20 odd posts but I will take a chance and listen to him. Without sounding ungrateful or a ge*bag, was kinda hoping some recognised boards players I hear about beating 100nl and 200nl to pm me and tell me their strategy. Probably a bit too much info to ask for.

Eitherway PM's are not essential, you are right, I need to put my own work into it. I do appreciate them though.

Thanks for the feedback.

First of, I can't say which is better as not used PT3 properly but I can say HM is a fantastic product and I would highly recommend it to anyone.
For bankroll 20-30 buyins for whatever level should be fine.
I suggest starting lower then 100nl as you seem to be lacking in fundamentals.
Play as many tables as you feel comfortable with, seeing as you are relatively new, least relatively inexperienced when it comes to online you are probably best of starting of with 1 or 2 tables and gradually adding more on when you feel you can handle it.

As for strategy, you should aim to make +Ev plays. You say you don't know what that means, first of you need to learn it and understand it.
A simple explanation is say the pot is 100 and your hand is 80% favourite to win. Your ev in that situation is 80. If your hand was 40% to win the pot and you had put 50 in as well as your opponent. That would be a -ev play as you only get 40 back despite in 50 for a loss of 10. Google for articles on it and search 2+2 and you find some good explanations of it how it works.

As for how you make money. At lower levels you can just play tight and get away it as players are so bad and don't exploit it. To use your example of a table full of people who read forums and are all regs. Well point A) table select better. Just because someone is a reg who reads 2+2, that doesn't mean that are in anyway good. Sure they are going to better then some calling station donk but lots are still very exploitable. Figure out how to exploit them(hint: just playing good starting hands is not going to suffice) If you can do this you will start crushing whatever level you are at, also it's much more fun to beat up on regs.

In general, read forums, play hands, post when your stuck or unsure what to do, rinse and repeat.

Kamaldihnio

Cheers Cooker, I really appreciate your feedback, sounds good and will deffo take all your advice on board.

And cheers to the bloke who PM'd me too.

hotspur

Since you want to be told how to play read this 6max strategy ebook, it's not bad:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/ryanfee/2p2pdf.pdf

Kamaldihnio

hotspur wrote: »

Since you want to be told how to play read this 6max strategy ebook, it's not bad:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/ryanfee/2p2pdf.pdf

I dont want to be told how to play, just wondering whats the best way to approach an online cash game.

Havin a quick look through this at the mo, thanks for the link!

semibluff

think this whole thing is a bit LOL - will i PM you the secrets of life aswell?

DeadMoney

semibluff wrote: »

think this whole thing is a bit LOL - will i PM you the secrets of life aswell?

LOL

newbie2

hotspur wrote: »

Since you want to be told how to play read this 6max strategy ebook, it's not bad:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/ryanfee/2p2pdf.pdf

i'll second that -It's a good piece of writing. This is the best way to approach 6max online cash