Lennox Lewis

nacho libre

http://www.setantasports.com/en/Sport/News/Other-sports/2008/11/17/Boxing-Steward-on-Lewis/?facets/sport-space/great-britain-locale/boxing/

i hope he quashes the speculation. He'd be mad to come back after so long out of the game.

cowzerp

I never liked Lewis tbh, he fought all the names on his record when they where past there best and i never really got entertained watching him, you could say he came along at the right time..

also i feel vitali was going to win there fight bar the cuts so feel there is some unfinished business to attend to, if i was advising lewis though it would be stay away.

T-K-O

I'd love him to come back so Vitali could KO him.

Overrated.

walshb

I was never a big fan of Lewis who I think never used those massive physical advantages to the best of their potential. He was quite negative in fights and boring and also was weak chinned. Those two KO losses will always tarnish the guy!

But, to come back and face and beat both men who destroyed him showed Lewis to
have enormous courage and heart. That's a big PLUS IMO!

conceited

Vitali HAMMERED him already! Only for that cut lewis was finished.
I never liked his style !

megadodge

Even though it's a boxer we're talking about I have no doubt that Lewis will stay retired.

I also feel you're all underestimating him. While there is no doubt that he could be very frustrating at times as he had the ability to bomb almost anyone out (I really do believe his right hand was as hard as any in history), he often took the cautious route instead of opening up. However, there was nobody on the scene he didn't beat with one obvious exception - Riddick Bowe, who refused point blank to fight him after Lewis demolished him in the Olympic final of 1988. The two men who beat him were very decisively beaten in rematches. His chin wasn't brilliant, but it was still reasonably good.

He was a much better version of Vladimir Klitchko and would have given any heavy in history serious problems with his physical attributes and ring intelligence.

eagle eye

I agree with Megadodge fully. Lewis was the best of his generation by a country mile. I don't think his chin was that bad either and as mentioned by Walshb he fought both men again and beat them convincingly which shows great heart.

I was pretty sure he would have beat Klichko that night. He was getting on top when the cuts stopped the fight but he was fighting smart as usual. His long straight jab was a powerful weapon and to me he had more ring savvy than any other heavyweight I have seen. While the to ko's really do stain his record he still remains one of the best heavyweights ever to have fought and definitely the best since the golden years of Ali/Frazier et al, along with Holmes and Tyson.

Shane-1

You must be joking right?

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Even though it's a boxer we're talking about I have no doubt that Lewis will stay retired.

I also feel you're all underestimating him. While there is no doubt that he could be very frustrating at times as he had the ability to bomb almost anyone out (I really do believe his right hand was as hard as any in history), he often took the cautious route instead of opening up. However, there was nobody on the scene he didn't beat with one obvious exception - Riddick Bowe, who refused point blank to fight him after Lewis demolished him in the Olympic final of 1988. The two men who beat him were very decisively beaten in rematches. His chin wasn't brilliant, but it was still reasonably good.

He was a much better version of Vladimir Klitchko and would have given any heavy in history serious problems with his physical attributes and ring intelligence.

I never thought Lewis hammered Bowe. He TKO'd him in the
amateurs.

He never floored him or clean KO'd him and I don't think the fight
would be any indicator of how the pro bout would go. I would definitely favor a peak Bowe to beat Lewis. Bowe's chin was better and he was more aggressive and was faster.

It is my all time ultimate fantasy fight. Shame it never happened.

I have watched the AM fight and up to the point where Lewis landed clean, the fight
was so competitive. Bowe took the shots very well; but because of the amateur
rules, the fight had to be stopped.

BTW Mega, I know you never mentioned how the PRO bout would go.
Just my added thoughts!

megadodge

Ok, maybe the word 'demolished' was a bit strong, but a 2nd round stoppage, that was a legit stoppage and got no protest from either Bowe or his corner, is pretty decisive in anyone's language.

The fact that Lewis wanted to fight Bowe as a pro, and Bowe flat out refused to fight him looks very much to me like he just didn't believe he could beat Lewis and as most people know (once the competitors have prepared well physically) it's what goes on inside the head that wins and loses most sports contests.

cowzerp

Peak Bowe shape would prob beat any other heavyweight in history, bar maybe Foreman peak-imagine that for a fight...WOWAWEEYA

megadodge

You don't really believe he'd beat Ali do you ?

I think Bowe gets far too much credit for basically beating one man - Holyfield. Because if you look at it, who else of note did he beat as a pro ?
Absolutely nobody. Please don't include the Golota "victories" as he was getting hammered in both before the Pole blew them.

He beat Holyfield, lost to Holyfield and beat Holyfield. They were good wins but when people talk about his "peak" they're effectively talking about the first Holyfield fight, which is like saying Buster Douglas at his peak (Tyson) would have given any heavy in history problems !!

Bowe is a seriously overrated fighter, based on what he did. He had talent, but showed it all too briefly and didn't have the balls to face the best challenger out there !!

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Peak Bowe shape would prob beat any other heavyweight in history, bar maybe Foreman peak-imagine that for a fight...WOWAWEEYA

Paul, on a perfect night, Bowe was capable of beating any man.
He was that good. He was a prime example of a real real special BIG Heavyweight.
He had speed, stamina, brilliant inside work, a heavy punch and a monstrous jab.
At 230 lbs and 6 feet 5, he was the perfect specimen.

The funny thing is, not many would agree with our position on this!

Mega, the AM fight is no indicator IMO of how the PRO fight would go.
One thing gives the edge to Bowe, DURABILITY!
Lewis lacked it in abundance and hadn't the CHIN that Bowe had.

I do agree that maybe Bowe didn't feel that he could beat Lewis.
He may have been a little scared. I say MAY, not a definite by any stretch!

Mega, career wise, Bowe wasn't the best'; but on his BEST night
he would be an absolute handful for the best heavyweights ever. It's not a given that
any of them win, and in winning, it will be a very close and hard fought win.

cowzerp

megadodge wrote: »

You don't really believe he'd beat Ali do you ?!!

On his best form i'd say yes, bowe's problems where never down to ability, it was always down to training and poor diet, when he was fit and peak-wow, like big george only maybe better, Brens assesment of him is good, also, i'd never bet against Ali-the rumble in the jungle proved why..

numerocinco

Ha, am I the only person who rates Lennox Lewis highly, I probably even have him in my top 5 heavies, I think he was better than Bowe and if he trained hard he could beat anybody. When he was knocked about, a lot of it was because he was out of shape which I think is no excuse and as Ali, Foreman, Joe etc were generally in perfect shape when it mattered. Anyway I rate lennox Lewis and he has a good record although the decade wasnt as strong or popular as others. Would have loved to see Bowe v Lewis but I dont think their Amateur fights count for much as a comparison.

walshb

numerocinco wrote: »

Ha, am I the only person who rates Lennox Lewis highly, I probably even have him in my top 5 heavies, I think he was better than Bowe and if he trained hard he could beat anybody. When he was knocked about, a lot of it was because he was out of shape which I think is no excuse and as Ali, Foreman, Joe etc were generally in perfect shape when it mattered. Anyway I rate lennox Lewis and he has a good record although the decade wasnt as strong or popular as others. Would have loved to see Bowe v Lewis but I dont think their Amateur fights count for much as a comparison.

Mate, again, on any given night, Lewis' size and physical advantages will be very
beneficial and he will be a very hard man to back against. He also had a monstrous punch. However, where I see problems is his fragile or less than stellar ability to take a shot AND recover quickly enough.

Tyson for example, at PEAK, I would bet on Tyson
to KO Lewis. Tyson had the punch; but he also had a terrific CHIN. Lewis had the punch and had not got the CHIN to withstand Tyson's shots. Maybe Lewis would withstand Ali's
or Norton's or Holy's shots; but not Tyson's or Foreman's or Dempsey's

I am NOT saying Lewis had a crap chin. It was just less reliable than some of the greats.
And in the heavies, CHIN is ultra important. Any match with Lewis and a great would be a rollercoaster. He could end it any second; but he could be ENDED himself any second!

megadodge

Bren, the reason we're discussing how their pro fight COULD have gone is because one man refused point blank to fight - Bowe !! That counts for a lot in my book.

People talk about the talent he had, but he only showed it against mediocre opposition, bar Holyfield, who was a naturally smaller man. How powerful would he look against an equally big (possibly bigger) man in Lewis. His jab wasn't any better than Lewis's, Lewis hit harder and there wasn't much in it in terms of speed. Lewis was a lot more intelligent. Bowe was better inside and had a better chin, but it's not like Lewis was vulnerable (a la Vlad) when hit.

There's no doubt it could have been a very interesting bout and I'm not saying Bowe could never have won, but if we're talking peak versus peak, I think Lewis beats him with intelligence and power.

Too bad it didn't happen, but we know whose fault that is.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Bren, the reason we're discussing how their pro fight COULD have gone is because one man refused point blank to fight - Bowe !! That counts for a lot in my book.

People talk about the talent he had, but he only showed it against mediocre opposition, bar Holyfield, who was a naturally smaller man. How powerful would he look against an equally big (possibly bigger) man in Lewis. His jab wasn't any better than Lewis's, Lewis hit harder and there wasn't much in it in terms of speed. Lewis was a lot more intelligent. Bowe was better inside and had a better chin, but it's not like Lewis was vulnerable (a la Vlad) when hit.

There's no doubt it could have been a very interesting bout and I'm not saying Bowe could never have won, but if we're talking peak versus peak, I think Lewis beats him with intelligence and power.

Too bad it didn't happen, but we know whose fault that is.

I alluded to the fact that Bowe MAY have been scared. He did refuse; but in boxing, sometimes it is NOT the fighter, but the money men behind the scenes and the management etc. Personally, I don't believe Bowe was scared. I think it was all down
to Rock Newman and business. Bowe was simply following orders!

What a fight it would have been, around early 1993. I can barely think of a bigger fight. The whole Olympic final is what made the PRO bout all the more 'salivating'

If you ask me to pick, I think the more durable and tough man wins.This to me is Bowe!
His CHIN was better!

cowzerp

megadodge wrote: »

How powerful would he look against an equally big (possibly bigger) man in Lewis. His jab wasn't any better than Lewis's, Lewis hit harder and there wasn't much in it in terms of speed. Lewis was a lot more intelligent. Bowe was better inside and had a better chin, but it's not like Lewis was vulnerable (a la Vlad) when hit.

Bowe hit harder than lewis, he destroyed the then unbeaten herbie hyde, tony tubbs and bruce seldon, and obviously the holyfield fights which where legendary, his jab was more damaging, lewis been more rangy, and his chin was much better, also he fought with more conviction and less caution than lewis.. Bowe would win 7-10 times in my opinion

walshb

Mega, I meant to say as Paul said, Bowe's jab was better. It had a lot more snap and speed. Plus, it was powerful.

megadodge

Maybe Lewis would withstand Ali's
or Norton's or Holy's shots; but not Tyson's or Foreman's or Dempsey's

I agree Tyson at his peak would have beaten Lewis and probably inside the distance, but Foreman could well have been outboxed. Don't forget he would be facing a bigger man for once and his own stamina was always iffy. Lewis had the power to keep him honest (and hurt him) and the jab and straight punches to counter his wide shots. Obviously if Foreman connected it could mean serious trouble, but I think Lewis was intelligent enough to outsmart Foreman and beat him. It would have been an intruiging fight though.

As for Dempsey, he was 6 foot and 13 1/2 stone facing a man who was absolutely massive in comparison, but unlike Jess Willard, could really box, punched harder and was extremely smart. Dempsey was floored and hurt quite a number of times in his career along with being KO'd once. I really can't see this as being anything other than a KO for Lewis within 3-4 rounds.

cuculainn

My lasting memory of Lewis was on the late late show saying that he would have his money made and be world champion at 29. and would then retire....I dont think he actually won it till he was 34 (guessing).

Think he was slightly underrated cause he was boring to watch but he was very talented.

Quality of opponents was questionable (as always is nowadays in heavyweight division)

walshb

I agree, Dempsey, no matter how ferocious, is still giving away a hell of a lot to a really good heavy and to me, like you, it matters.
If Fireman Jim Flynn could DENT Dempsey, then Lewis could too!

The Foreman bout would be touch and go; but if Foreman fights clever and doesn't try to steamroll too much, I feel he wins by early to mid rds KO. I agree, Lewis will be very dangerous in this one and will keep George honest. George did have a hell of a chin, as well as the punch. He was IMO, more durable and this could be the decider!

As strong as Lewis was, I don't believe there was ever a naturally stronger fighter in history than a prime Foreman! Plus, when was George ever intimidated. He was scared of NOTHING; even though he claims he was ****ting against Frazier. That was out of respect more than anything!

This belief and lack of fear also will play a part. Lewis was at times very tentative and unsure and also lacked that bit of confidence. Foreman 'smells' this and it's lights out!

Finally, Lewis gets a lot of credit for facing and wanting to face everyone. He never turned down a fight and fought the best men
that were around.

For one punch power, Lewis was one of the hardest hitters in history. Bowe could bang, but a shade below Lewis!

megadodge

Bowe hit harder than lewis

I very strongly disagree with that statement.

he destroyed the then unbeaten herbie hyde, tony tubbs and bruce seldon

So what ?
That's my whole point about mediocre opposition.
And the Tubbs fight (against a 33 year old) was a very close decision.

megadodge

cuculainn wrote: »

My lasting memory of Lewis was on the late late show saying that he would have his money made and be world champion at 29. and would then retire....I dont think he actually won it till he was 34 (guessing).

Think he was slightly underrated cause he was boring to watch but he was very talented.

Quality of opponents was questionable (as always is nowadays in heavyweight division)

He first won the title at 27.

I agree that at times he was boring, but people often mix that up with being no good. There's a difference. Lot's of great fighters were boring (Pernell Whittaker, Hopkins, etc.).

I reckon the quality of opposition he faced can match up to any era in history bar the early/mid 70's - which was exceptional !!

cuculainn

megadodge wrote: »

He first won the title at 27.

Yeah he was made WBC champ by being the #1 contender. After he lost that title to McCaul he didnt win again till 1997 when he was 33.

I guess I was just pointing out that his career had to go on a lot longer than he had planned in order to achive what he said he would

megadodge

I've lost count of all the boxers I've heard say "I'll retire by (n) and never come back" who didn't keep their promise. It's just the nature of the beast.

numerocinco

I don't think Lewis would come back especially if there was a chance that Vitali could beat him and ruin his record, just couldn't see it happening as Lewis always appeared to have a smart head on him. Some of you mentioned Dempsey and other past greats but I think its to hard to compare due to the size difference, even foreman I think would have struggled with Bowe/Lewis size but it would have been some scrap. Personally I dont think Tyson would have beaten Lewis either as I dont think Lewis would not have been intimated and thats half the battle with tyson and I also dont think Bowes record is that strong either, as I would never have rated Herbie Hide/ Tubbs as strong heavyweight esp Hide who was too small. Albeit I'd say Lewis would be crying if the likes of David Haye was walking around calling himself HW Champ.

nacho libre

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/7740680.stm

cowzerp

maybe we'll get the bowe v lewis fight after all! If he wins a couple and lewis could beat vitali then we have a fight. I'd love to see a fit bowe back for a year or so, will prob win a title. He'd defo beat valuev!

Tony Broke

Lewis could beat Valuev for sure, even with no run up match I would fancy him.Its hard to like his style but the man had skills, too much skill for someone like Valuev.I would fancy him to beat Haye too, not sure about either of the klitschkos.

Fantasy matches wise, I cant see many fighters beating prime Foreman or Tyson, especially Foreman.Both could take serious punishment and had scary firepower.

I agree with Walsh, that Lewis had an average chin.Rachman and McCall both ko'd Lewis and while he did beat a decade past his peak Tyson well enough, it wasnt total domination.In the first few rounds Tyson did very well.He dodged alot of lennox's punches repeatedly tagged Lennox again and again.This was a terribile Tyson, with none of that speed and overweight.

I firmly believe that a 1986 Tyson would have been too much for Lewis, he gave him a decent scrap for the first few rounds way past his best after all.

On that evidence no way would a prime Lewis beat a prime Foreman.Big George is going to hit with a bomb eventually.

megadodge

maybe we'll get the bowe v lewis fight after all! If he wins a couple and lewis could beat vitali then we have a fight. I'd love to see a fit bowe back for a year or so, will prob win a title. He'd defo beat valuev!

Jesus Paul, I hope for his own sake he doesn't come back !
Any reports I've read or heard about him are that from a health perspective he could be an awful lot better. I think he'd get seriously hurt if he came back now.

I definitely don't want to see him come back.

megadodge

especially Foreman.Both could take serious punishment and had scary firepower.

Have you ever seen Ron Lyle's fight with Foreman ? One of my all-time favourites and an absolute crazy brawl. However, it showed Foreman could be badly hurt. At one stage he was face-first on the canvas and barely beat the count only to be saved by the bell. He was also down another time and badly shook repeatedly.

And there's no way Ron Lyle hits as hard as Lennox Lewis !!

As far as I remember the non-punching Jimmy Young had Foreman down as well.

past his peak Tyson well enough, it wasnt total domination.In the first few rounds Tyson did very well.He dodged alot of lennox's punches repeatedly tagged Lennox again and again.This was a terribile Tyson, with none of that speed and overweight.

If you gave Tyson any round other than the first you were looking at a different fight. It was a domination !

He didn't hit Lewis "again and again" IMO, cos if he did then surely questions over Lewis's chin would have been put to bed, cos one thing even a shot Tyson had was a huge punch.

Please note that I said earlier that I do think a prime Tyson would have beaten Lewis.

walshb

I have to say, that if we are actaully "looking forward to Bowe-Lewis," we are in a sad state regarding the sports most prized division.

However, I would still like to see an OLD and past it Lewis V an OLD and past it Bowe

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Have you ever seen Ron Lyle's fight with Foreman ? One of my all-time favourites and an absolute crazy brawl. However, it showed Foreman could be badly hurt. At one stage he was face-first on the canvas and barely beat the count only to be saved by the bell. He was also down another time and badly shook repeatedly.

And there's no way Ron Lyle hits as hard as Lennox Lewis !!

As far as I remember the non-punching Jimmy Young had Foreman down as well.

Foreman was more 'down' due to fatigue and exhaustion in the Lyle bout.
Main thing is, he got UP and won. He was also down from Young who was no LL in the power stakes; but again, tired and off balance was more Foreman's problem.

Even the Rumble with Ali. Ali landed lovely flush shots; but Foreman was also knackered and the shots were therefore more damaging!

Lewis V Foreman is going to be scary and not a sure thing for either man. I pick George because of chin and durability and because Lewis' chin is unreliable and not GRADE A; but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis cause the 'upset.' I'm 65-35 on this, so I'm not real confident!

megadodge

But in the Lyle bout it was only the 3rd round !!

If exhaustion sets in that early, surely Lewis just has to play cautious for a few rounds (something he's well familiar with) and then take over.

As I said this is no certainty of a bout, but Foreman's stamina was most definitely iffy and Lyle floored him quite legitimately, so with Lewis being a superior skilled boxer and a very dangerous puncher and very smart tactically, a Lewis win is a very distinct possiblity.

It's definitely a dangerous fight for both though !!

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

But in the Lyle bout it was only the 3rd round !!

If exhaustion sets in that early, surely Lewis just has to play cautious for a few rounds (something he's well familiar with) and then take over.

As I said this is no certainty of a bout, but Foreman's stamina was most definitely iffy and Lyle floored him quite legitimately, so with Lewis being a superior skilled boxer and a very dangerous puncher and very smart tactically, a Lewis win is a very distinct possiblity.

It's definitely a dangerous fight for both though !!

Mega, I agree completely and this is why the bout is NOT a definite for George. He fights stupid and wastes and wastEs huge amounts of energy, it could see him exposed; providing of course Lewis can withstand the wastes of energy.