New Dell Precision Series and MBox2 or Pro Tools

warcam

Hi All,

New to this forum.
I've been using Pro Tools 7 LE with an MBox 2 and Inspiron 6000 for some time with very few issues. It was effective and allowed me to do nearly everything I wanted to but was limited in power (chip and ram).

I also use Cakewalk Sonar for collaborative projects.

In lieu of this I recently splashed out on a new Dell Precision M4400.
I based my choice on the following Dell Articles:
Pro Tools:

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/solutions/en/wsadvisor?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz&~page=33&~tab=1

Cakewalk:

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/solutions/en/wsadvisor?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz&~page=35&~tab=1

Digidesign recommended laptops are well out of date, they obviously have not been testing any new machines over there, so I had little to go on.

Despite following all recommended configurations, running XP Pro 32 bit and doing several formats and fresh installs, disabling almost everything on my device manager I have not been able to get either software package to play back audio for more than a couple of seconds without throwing an interrupt error.

In there anyone on this board using any of the new Precision models successfully with audio? Anyone using it successfully with Pro Tools and any digidesign hardware?

Can anyone recommend anything to try to see if I can get it to work?

Are Dell's claims about these models being ideal for audio professionals utter rubbish?

My head is completely done in by this. Any info appreciated.

Thanks,

Wcm.

edit: Just to add, I've run the DPC Latency Checker app and it stays in the green, according to that tool it should run audio without drop outs.

artvandulet

have you had a look at my post in the tips and hints sticky? might help.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055035319 - 2nd last post

dav nagle

My guess is that you are using pro tools 7.4? When I had a PC version 7.1 and 7.3 worked very well indeed.

Doctor J

You may have a load of unnecessary services running on the machine, are you using Vista? Do you have anit-virus, anti-spyware, etc?

warcam

Running XP Pro 32 and it's a lower version of 7 but as it worked on the Inspiron I'm pretty sure it's not related to a later version issue.
Will have a look at the sticky, thanks, to see if there's anything I've not tried yet, but tried a hell of alot already!

Anyone using this series of Dell Precision for audio, I'd love to hear how it went for you (with any serious production package).

Will keep thread updated anyway if I find a solution for the list of users here and anywhere else who has felt this pain!

Thanks guys.

Wcm.

Seziertisch

The Mbox is firewire. The Texas Instruments firewire chipset is recommended by most firewire unit manufacturerers as the one that works best.

Some cheaper/newer Dells come with other generic chipsets. A friend of mine had/has terrible difficulties using a firewire interface with a Dell probably for this reason.

ogy

if seziertisch is right (which i reckon he may very well be) you can buy a little PCI card in the laptop shop in stephens green for about 25 quid which you can then plug your interface into. dell native firewire is often problematic

artvandulet

Seziertisch wrote: »

The Mbox is firewire. The Texas Instruments firewire chipset is recommended by most firewire unit manufacturerers as the one that works best.

Some cheaper/newer Dells come with other generic chipsets. A friend of mine had/has terrible difficulties using a firewire interface with a Dell probably for this reason.

The Mbox 2 is USB!:D
At least any I've used or seen. Mbox 2 pro is firewire.

Soundman

The MBox 2 that I have is USB too. Don't think I have seen a Firewire one. Think you might be right in saying that it's the Pro version that is FW.

Seziertisch

If that's the case, it could well just be the bus architecture of the computer. There may be a number of inputs (USB, firewire etc.), but they could all be sharing the same bus, which could potentially lead to traffic/bandwidth issues.

warcam

Seziertisch wrote: »

If that's the case, it could well just be the bus architecture of the computer. There may be a number of inputs (USB, firewire etc.), but they could all be sharing the same bus, which could potentially lead to traffic/bandwidth issues.

Update:

It is the case (pro has fw, mbox2 is usb 2).

Tried everything in the sticky and a hell of alot more besides with no luck.

Process explorer diagnostic shows a big jump in hw interrupts and DPC's as soon as pro tools and even cakewalk starts.

DPCLatency says everything should work fine, it does not.

It could be the bus architecture but that doesn't really point me towards resolving it.

Current recommendation: Don't go new Dell Precision series for audio.
I will post any update if I get some success.
An engineer in Dell support is taking an interest in it and I expect to hear more from them.

This is painful stuff and I've done some weird installs / configurations in my time.

My acoustic guitar is getting lot's of attention, I'm beginning to think it's sabotaging my pc while I sleep.

Seziertisch

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep06/articles/pcmusician_0906.htm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may05/articles/protoolsbad.htm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct06/articles/pcmusician_1006.htm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar07/articles/pcmusician_0307.htm

These might be of help. Of particular interest might be the section on hotfixes in the last article.

warcam

Seziertisch wrote: »

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep06/articles/pcmusician_0906.htm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may05/articles/protoolsbad.htm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct06/articles/pcmusician_1006.htm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar07/articles/pcmusician_0307.htm

These might be of help. Of particular interest might be the section on hotfixes in the last article.

Will take a look, many thanks!

bedbugs

Just looking at that Dell link. They say that Audio Professionals rely on Dell Prescision. And then at the bottom of the screen they write..

Additional Recommendations: Sound Blaster Audigy II with onboard 1394 Option Option for premium sound.

they have to be kidding.

Having said that, I had a Dell machine for about 3 years that I used for audio. It was grand.

Seziertisch

I used an oldish Dell Laptop that was top of the range when it came out. It worked problem free for as long as I had it. Of course, being top of the range, it would have had the best of everything in it when it came out.

Did you try turning off wireless?

warcam

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you try turning off wireless?

I have disabled nearly everything, to no avail, this includes turning off all nw cards including wireless.

This laptop is pretty much top of the range too, which makes it twice as soul destroying that after such an investment it won't do what I need it to.

fitz

This is precisely why I went Mac.

warcam

fitz wrote: »

This is precisely why I went Mac.

Thanks for the insight

warcam

As posted on SOS forum this morning:

*********

I wanted to check back in with you to give you an update...

Success!!!

After a serious amount of pain I have now got the machine performing well with audio.

Note, what is between the broken lines here did not achieve success for me with the MBox2 running PTLE 7.0, but I did make these tweaks before I achieved a solution, so they may have had a positive impact, you can always make them and when up and running undo one at a time of the ones you'd rather not change, such as disabling of different services.
You can't undo the switch from AHCI without a windows repair or reinstall after - back up everything if you want to risk that one.

---

I have switched the machine (Dell Precision M4400) to ATA from AHCI in the BIOS (required windows repair or complete reinstall, i did the latter).

I had performed all the standard tweaks Pro Tools requests and many more besides garnered from other forums.

Some of these here:

in the Nvidia Control Panel -> Advanced Settings -> Base Profile ->
set vertical Sync to "Always Off"
Turn off windows Firewall

Most of these (courtesy Boards.ie music production forum):
(this is from the sticky on the index page of this board)

Right-click on My Computer and select 'Properties.' Click on the Hardware tab and select Hardware Profiles - you should see a list with your computer's default profile. This profile will become the Pro Tools optimized profile, so you can rename it accordingly. Click Copy to create a duplicate profile before the changes we'll make - this will be your computer's access to the internet and other applications, so name it accordingly as well (i.e. Pro Tools (Current) and Default). Then make sure that 'Wait until I select a hardware profile' is checked. Close the Hardware Profiles dialog.


Disabling non-essential devices:

You should be back in the Hardware tab of System Properties - click on Device Manager. Click on the '+' symbol next to Network Adapters. Double-click on the first device listed and select the 'Do not use this device in the current hardware profile (disable)' option under Device Usage. Close that device's properties dialog and repeat the last step for the next device listed. All items under Network Adapters, Ports, and any default or built-in soundcard listed under Sound, Video, and Game Controllers should follow suit (disabling your network adapters will prevent you from using the internet).

Open the Universal Serial Bus controllers, and for any USB Root Hub, do the following: Right-click and select 'Properties.' Click on the Power Management tab and uncheck the 'Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power' option. Click 'Okay' to go back to the Device Manager.

If you have any external firewire drives, open the Disk Drives list and right-click on the icon of that drive to select 'Properties.' Go to the Policies tab and make sure the device is set to 'Optimize for Quick Removal.' Click 'Okay' to go back to the Device Manager.

You can now close the Device Manager and go back to the System Properties dialog.

Note: Combined with the previous step, you will now have two Hardware Profiles to choose from during boot. The 'Pro Tools' profile will now have these devices already disabled, whereas the 'Default' profile will not (i.e. your internet will still work on your ‘Default’ profile).


Disabling non-essential startup tasks and services:
lick on the Start menu and select 'Run.' Type "msconfig" in the prompt and click 'OK.' This will bring up the System Configuration Utility. In the General tab, click the 'Selective Startup' radio button. Uncheck everything but 'Load System Services.'

Click on the Services tab, and you'll see a 'Hide all Microsoft services' checkbox at the bottom - ensure this box is CHECKED, then select 'Disable All.' Now uncheck the 'Hide all Microsoft services' box, and you should see the list of services refresh with some default services and a green check in their box. Click 'OK' on the System Configuration Utility window to close. It will ask you to restart - do so.
Note: If you want to go back to your normal startup, simply run 'msconfig' again and select 'Normal Startup.' Also, this step will disable most anti-virus software (this is a good thing when running Pro Tools).

Enter the BIOS:

Disabling Speed-stepping:

This option is referred to as AMD Cool n' Quiet in AMD processor motherboards, and can show up as various things in Intel-based boards. Sometimes it simply shows up as 'speed-stepping.' If your motherboard has this option, disable it, as it can cause major conflicts with the processor scheduling of Pro Tools and the USB bus. It's usually found under the 'Advanced' tab.

This option is usually disabled by following the steps in the ‘Getting Started Guide’ that’s supplied with your product by setting your Power Options to the ‘Always On’ scheme (found in the Control Panel - for some Dell laptops, this can also be called Dell Quick-Set Performance Mode). Some manufacturers supply their own power management system - please confer with those manufacturers to find the correct option, or follow the step above to bypass their management and turn this off directly from the BIOS. Also, sometimes the manufacturers limit your access to the BIOS and you cannot disable speed-stepping - if you cannot set Power Scheme to ‘Always On’ or disable speed-stepping on a laptop.

Disabling C-State Transition and Optimizing Integrated USB Hub:

This option is specific to Core Duo laptops. If you see C-State Transition anywhere in the BIOS, be sure to disable it. Also, find the Integrated USB Hub and set it to High Speed. Note that not all computers or BIOS will have these options.


Other optimizations:

Aside from the steps above, here are some optional settings to get maximum performance.


Display Performance:

First, right-click on My Computer and select 'Properties.' Go to the Advanced tab and select 'Settings' under the Performance section. In the Visual Effects tab, select 'Adjust for best performance' Then click on the Advanced tab and set both Processor Scheduling and Memory Usage to 'Programs.' Close the Performance Options and System Properties windows by clicking 'OK.'


DEP Fix:

This option disables execution prevention, a feature of Windows Service Packs that can sometimes cause errors. This won’t harm anything, but also isn’t always necessary. To do this, right-click on My Computer and select Properties. Click on the Advanced tab and select ‘Settings’ under Startup and Recovery. In the Startup and Recovery window, click on the ‘Edit’ button. This will display a text document with system execution parameters - we want to find the part of the text that reads: “ /NoExecute=OptIn “ and change the “OptIn” to reflect “ /NoExecute=AlwaysOff “ - note that the ‘A’ and ‘O’ are capitalized and there are no spaces. Then go to the file menu and Save the document. Close the document and click ‘Okay’ in Startup and Recovery.

---

The other day, having purged and reinstalled drivers I got Cakewalk Sonar to run successfully with a number of plug ins, though not with the MBox2 (with a Sapphire).

Then I uninstalled PTLE 7.0 and installed 7.4.
It works, in fact it works incredibly well - PTLE 7.4, Reason 3, multiple, resource heavy third party plug ins and about ten channels of audio (plus about eight tracks fed from Reason to PT channels) all working smoothly.

Despite having only a single HD at the moment it also bounced to disk first time, no problem, even though this was a frequent headache on the old Inspiron 6000 with
PTLE 7.0.

I have to run some recording tests tonight and will let you know if these throw up any issues.

For now though I would say that the Dell Precision M4400 can be configured to run audio well and with a good deal of power.

I think that the latest version of PTLE (7.4, 8 is being released soon) may be required though (possibly to do with better support for dual core chips).

I hope this spares someone some pain and some time.
I should point out that Digidesign were very helpful in resolving this.

Garkah

<snip>

PaulBrewer

Jeeez! Mac anyone?

fitz

Yup.
I tried some of the above trying to get firewire working on Windows, to no avail.
Looking at the rest of the steps, and have seen that the interface worked straight away on Mac, with no driver installation required...that sold me. I switched platform and haven't looked back.