lisbon

trentf

Senior Spokesperson for Libertas, Caroline Simons, issued the following statement this evening in response to criticism of Czech President Vaclav Klaus from various sections of the Irish political establishment today:

"Today's spluttering, incoherent, bluster from the political establishment in this country is very revealing, in that it shows how angry they are that the central basis of their argument for a second referendum on the Lisbon Treaty has been so devastatingly undermined.

Ireland is not alone in Europe. President Klaus has shown himself to be a friend to the majority of Irish citizens who rejected the Lisbon Treaty. That he is the incoming President of the EU council is even more significant.

Dick Roche, Joe Costello, and Billy Timmins have spent today publicly regretting the fact that the Irish public were able to hear the views of a fellow democrat. I would hope that that would give them pause for thought.

The Irish people have eyes and ears. They can clearly see the truth of Ireland's position in Europe, and they can also see that the people they have elected would rather that they did not have all of the facts.

Combined with the reports yesterday that the Government may consider limiting access to the airwaves for its opponents, this paints an uncomfortable portrait of the view of democracy held by our leaders, - especially given Minister Roche's continued churlish and deceitful references to "free debate" in Ireland.

I congratulate President Klaus on his courage, dignity, and service, and we in Libertas will never for one moment regret that the Irish people are able to hear the stated positions of our European colleagues".

---

this from rte news state controlled of course so rather predictable - seems like they have been schooled by their masters to tell the public the right way to vote this time, you know ordinary joe soap who doesn't know anything and voted no because he just doesn't get it lets make him 'get it'


no doubt these so called concessions would be overruled as soon as the public would be guillable enough to vote for this
which they are not. Also i do not believe these figures, what did they go around asking each person for figures see 'made up stuff to suit agenda '


********************************

new poll shows that a modified version of the Lisbon Treaty would be carried if certain concessions are made to Ireland.

The TNS/mrbi poll in tomorrow's Irish Times asked voters would they vote Yes or No in another referendum if the Treaty was modified to allow Ireland retain its EU Commissioner and if concerns on neutrality, abortion and taxation were clarified in special declarations.

The result was 43% said Yes; 39% said No and 19% said they did not know.

AdvertisementWhen the 'Don't Knows' are eliminated the result gives a slightly bigger margin to supporters of the Treaty.

The Yes vote without the 'Don't Knows' is 52.5% with 47.5% for the No vote.

In the referendum last June, 53.4% voted to reject the treaty, while 46.6% voted in favour.

December decision on Lisbon referendum

The Government will make its decision on whether to hold another referendum on the Lisbon Treaty before the European Council meeting in December.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Micheál Martin, told RTE's 'The Week in Politics' that the decision has not been made yet.

He said the Government will bring the 'elements of a solution' to the meeting in Brussels next month.

Mr Martin said the Government wanted to restore the goodwill Ireland had built up in the EU over many years, because this would enable the country to play a part in future decisions.

When asked if the Government would hold another referendum if it got the necessary assurances it wanted, Mr Martin said: 'The Government will make that decision in advance of the December meeting.

'We haven't made that decision as of now and I mean we have looked at a variety of alternatives, and we have also consulted with our political parties here at home'.

The Minister said that doing nothing would leave Ireland at the margins of Europe.

'We want to be at the heart of European decision making,' he said.

'That would enable us to have some impact on decisions into the future and that would strengthen our hand in negotiations on agriculture and budgets and so forth.'



the goodwill of europe :pac::pac: such goodwill apparently doesn't include respecting the voice or vote of the majority. See this is their version of democracy 'its fine as long as you agree with us'

---

This report from tribune


Broadcast rules on referendum campaigns may be changed
An Oireachtas committee is examining the possibility of changing rules that require broadcasters to give equal air-time to both sides in a referendum campaign. At present, all broadcasters are obliged to give coverage on a 50-50 basis to voices from both sides of the argument in the run-up to a referendum. However, the Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution is now seeking submissions from the public on whether this should be changed. Fianna Fail TD Sean Ardagh, who chairs the committee, has denied that the move is a subtle attempt to justify a second referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. The treaty was rejected by voters in June, despite the fact that all the main political parties were calling for a 'yes' vote.
Oct. 23, 13:27

---

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...408553762.html

Source: http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1111/broadcasting.html

Source: http://en.epochtimes.com/n2/ireland/...ewed-6736.html



you take the red pill i show you how far the rabbit hole goes, you take the blue the story ends... i predict a revolution my friends..a revolution

Run_to_da_hills

"Misleading nature of the question asked in Irish Times opinion poll on Lisbon The planned deception envisaged for a Lisbon Two referendum become clearer. The poll actually shows 89% of the No side voted NOT due to 'neutrality, abortion and taxation' issues. Not a jot or tittle not a comma of the text of Lisbon can be changed, for otherwise it would be legally a new Treaty which would have to go around all 27 EU States for ratification again."

Diogenes

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

"Misleading nature of the question asked in Irish Times opinion poll on Lisbon The planned deception envisaged for a Lisbon Two referendum become clearer. The poll actually shows 89% of the No side voted NOT due to 'neutrality, abortion and taxation' issues. Not a jot or tittle not a comma of the text of Lisbon can be changed, for otherwise it would be legally a new Treaty which would have to go around all 27 EU States for ratification again."

But the Lisbon treaty specifically had a opt out clause named the Irish Clause aimed specifically at making sure countries could opt of a European task force. Theres no way to force abortion on Ireland, and no country who has agreed to Lisbon has had the EU control it's taxation despite europe entering the worst recession since the end of the second world war.

,8,1

Speculation, Diogenes, speculation. Your assurances are shallow and like those of the pro-Lisbon political elite, not legally binding. No one knows quite what will happen regarding conscription and abortion under Lisbon, and because of the vast scope of the Constitution, there's a good reason to believe they could be implicated at some point.

oscarBravo

,8,1 wrote: »

No one knows quite what will happen regarding conscription and abortion under Lisbon, and because of the vast scope of the Constitution, there's a good reason to believe they could be implicated at some point.

Heh. I'm glad to see this sort of rampant bullshít in the forum where it belongs, rather than the EU forum.

,8,1

Heh. I'm glad to see this sort of rampant bullshít in the forum where it belongs, rather than the EU forum.

Indeed, you just point-blank delete threads regarding Lisbon and abortion in the EU forum.

Nothing is "rampant bullshít" as regards the Lisbon Treaty/EU Constitution. It is an extensive document designed to overhaul Member State-EU relations. Only Lisbon's implementation will separate what is "rampant bullshít" [very emotional terminology there, well done] and what is not, and by then, it will be too late to register your discontent with the potential of that legal framework.

no country who has agreed to Lisbon has had the EU control it's taxation despite europe entering the worst recession since the end of the second world war.

Lisbon has not been implemented yet. Your point is therefore moot.

I'd love to see any evidence to support the notion that Europe is going to institute conscription.
I bet it's based on sound reasoning and fear mongering at all.

oscarBravo

,8,1 wrote: »

Indeed, you just point-blank delete threads regarding Lisbon and abortion in the EU forum.

Factually inaccurate. I closed a thread regarding Lisbon and abortion in the EU forum. I said at the time:

oscarBravo wrote: »

Thread closed. ,8,1 - this is a discussion forum. If you don't want a discussion, go somewhere else.

,8,1 wrote: »

Nothing is "rampant bullshít" as regards the Lisbon Treaty/EU Constitution.

I beg to differ.

trentf

:pac: stormfront ireland....lol they'll try anything wouldn't they..


as for Oscar. Yes he deletes treads from the european union board that don't suit his viewpoint i.e support for the european fascist state. He's not interested in debating points, because you must understand he's coming from the point of view whereby the governments in europe plans for the rest involve chocolate rivers, ponies and treats for the kids... a paid lackey if you will.. should have known from the hitler avatar:rolleyes:

but don't worry everybody gets whats coming to them in the end..

oscarBravo

trentf wrote: »

as for Oscar. Yes he deletes treads from the european union board that don't suit his viewpoint i.e support for the european fascist state.

Translated: "I started some rubbish threads on a serious forum and the nasty moderator deleted them."

I had a look back to see what pearls you deigned to cast before us swine. The two threads you started that I deleted are "Vote no and stop the new world order dead in its tracks", and "Jim corr the new world order and lisbon treaty".

The posts that opened these wonderful threads are, respectively:

Can't believe nobody has actually coped on to what is really going on here with the lisbon treaty. It is perfectly as aaron russo said it would be in the new world orders plans to enslave humanity, reduce the middle class and world population and create a slave population and have upper elite class in control. All the elements of the international bankers and elitists who really run the show are are contained in the lisbon treaty

http://wearechangeireland.org/get-educated/
http://www.wiseupjournal.com/

Don't take my word for it research it yourself's. Every vote counts to stop these evil peoples plans..

...and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPfszpqq2o4

Vote no and stop these evil people. Its up to us now..

Man, what a tragic loss to the EU forum.

trentf wrote: »

He's not interested in debating points, because you must understand he's coming from the point of view whereby the governments in europe plans for the rest involve chocolate rivers, ponies and treats for the kids... a paid lackey if you will.. should have known from the hitler avatar:rolleyes:

Or, alternatively, he's not interested in having a serious discussion forum turned into a raving paranoid soapbox.

but don't worry everybody gets whats coming to them in the end..

Is that a threat?

Mahatma coat

studiorat wrote: »

Ms Simon reminds me for the heady days of youth defence and SPUC.

She's the Pro Life Campaign Legal Consultant as well as being the senior lackie for Libertas (stormfront ireland).

Libertas represents "an extreme right wing catholic fascist egoist who is devoid of any mandate has never run for public office, who hires the debris thrown out of other political parties along youth defence-esque pro-life flotsam"

Stormfront Ireland Eh, I'll give you a chance to back that up with something tangible

also where did you pull that quote from? Link please

trentf

oscarBravo wrote: »

Translated: "I started some rubbish threads on a serious forum and the nasty moderator deleted them."

I had a look back to see what pearls you deigned to cast before us swine. The two threads you started that I deleted are "Vote no and stop the new world order dead in its tracks", and "Jim corr the new world order and lisbon treaty".

uh huh and because you don't think they exist despite the fact it has never been proven they don't exist you banned it anyway..because you feel in your mind they don't exist... no rules or forum rules were broken at all yet you banned it anyway

that says more about your beliefs in democracy then anything 'crazy' that could be started as a thread

studiorat

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Stormfront Ireland Eh, I'll give you a chance to back that up with something tangible

also where did you pull that quote from? Link please

The quote is from a journalist pal of mine, good prose no? Find it yourself. Personally I think it's spot on.

As for stormfront, well I had a little wander over there a while back and from the forums it would seem that Libertas has a quite a bit of support in those quarters. Who'd have thunk it!

Thanks for quoting me though, it would seem my original post has fallen off the board somehow.

Mahatma coat

I held the Post

A link to your 'Source' is what was requested, if this journalist is a pal then it shouldbnt be that hard.

studiorat

Why did you hold the post?

Mahatma coat

if youy want to write bile like that you are free to do so, as long as you can back it up with evidence

thats why

studiorat

Your use of bile and such language would suggest you are certainly not impartial in the matter. However as the forum mod that's your choice. But let's look at the thread's contents anyway.

“this from rte news state controlled of course so rather predictable - seems like they have been schooled by their masters”

Well since we are calling for citations and references let’s start with the OP. Let me point out here that RTE is part funded by the state. Now obviously a libertas supporter wouldn’t know the difference between something being funded and something being controlled, because they would only expect funding to go hand in hand with control. Well here in the real world it doesn’t.

“all broadcasters are obliged to give coverage on a 50-50 basis to voices from both sides of the argument in the run-up to a referendum.”

Moving along...

“no doubt these so called concessions would be overruled as soon as the public would be guillable enough to vote for this
which they are not. Also i do not believe these figures, what did they go around asking each person for figures see 'made up stuff to suit agenda “

The Treaty is not self-amending as its critics claim. The Treaty makes it absolutely clear that any future changes must be ratified in accordance with the constitutional requirements of each Member State.

Now let’s look at the issues you have with my post which apart from fascist seem to be pretty self evident. Where your pretendy indignation comes from I'm unsure.

Egotistical- I refer to the “private” meeting held in the Shelbourne Hotel. If this meeting was actually of any importance and actually meant to be private it would not have been held in the Shelbourne with the amount of media coverage that it got. Purely showboating for media profile and of no practical use apart from that.


Right Wing –Well Ganleys wishes for the EU to be modeled more on a US system would be a point here. Or has he taken that back yet. Now if you want to tell me he’s not right wing off you go.


Catholic – “Catholic tee-totaler” I believe is the quote bandied around in the press. I believe I’ve even seen “pious” used. Laughable!

Mandate/Policy- Well apart from a No vote there seems to be little actual policy. An elected european president, which given the population of Ireland is even worse for the country, at best a joke. An election such as this would make the Eurovision Song Contest look impartial IMO. What else? Oh the lisbon treaty to be a 25 page document or is it 18 pages? Another completely un feasible project IMO.

Ganley's underlying message is clear however the more tightly integrated the EU is politically, the harder it will be for the US to influence it. The non-popularly elected president will be able to resist the 'bad-behaviour' of supporting US imperial adventures. Lisbon does not "advance US national interests".

Never Run for Office – If you’s like to point out where Ganley has actulally run for any public office be my guest…

And As I've said already Simons is in fact the Legal Council for the Pro Life Group. Tell me she's not if you will...




http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=455838

Re: The Political Party with Declan Ganley
It was shockingly bad.I won't watch this show ever again. She kept interupting him and tried to smear him. However he was well able for the transexual freak. This is exactly the kind of biased attack dog coverage we will get over the 'reform' treaty

Support from the grassroots there eh?





Now let me point out just one example of Libertas bending the truth…

http://www.betterregulation.ie/upload/Regulating_Better_html/overview.html

The actual Paper...

Taking 3% of GDP as a guideline estimate of the overall administrative burden, and assuming the EU estimate that 15% of this burden was avoidable, then unnecessary regulation could have cost Irish business about €582 million in 2002.

http://www.libertas.org/content/view/252/131/

Libertas' quoting of it.

According to a White Paper on regulation from the Department of the Taoiseach, “unnecessary EU regulation could have cost Irish business €582 million” in a single year. The total cost to business of regulation in Europe is already estimated at more than €40 billion per annum, 15% of which is unnecessary.

The regulation that cost Irish business about €582 was Irish regulation, they inserted EU into the quote. The total cost for the WHOLE of Europe was €40 billion...

More lies.