How should Ireland behave during the Haka?

ironingbored

I just wanted to see if anyone had any opinions as to how the Irish players should respond to the Haka. Should they ignore it, link arms, do a Willie Anderson?

My preference would be for the team to link arms at a respectful distance and then applaud their guests once it finishes. This would be both respectful and take the psychological edge off the Haka by looking at it as a performance rather than a throwing down of the gauntlet.

If not the above, then imagine if Ireland secretly studied the Haka and did one back as good as the All Blacks had done! Now that would be **** cool!

Hagar

Moon the baxtards. Get the supporters to join in.

corny

Just keep warming up and let them get on with it. David Campese had the right idea. They show little respect to opponents on the pitch why should teams pay homage to them?

No matter what you do the New Zealanders will take offense. We're supposed to stand still and look intimidated! If we clapped or mocked them they'd spear tackle everyone in the stadium!

louthandproud

They should do a Willie Anderson on them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fg4FyhZ-Kg

XJR

Ignore it and get on with the warm up

Johnny Utah

Get some of the bigger lads to do a few cock-pushups! That'll scare the bejaysus out of them.....

TEH REAL CDP

willie anderson ftw!

tHE vAGGABOND

just shut up, and observe one of the greatest spectacles in world sport with the respect it deserves

DarkJager

I don't see what is so great about the Haka to be honest. Once you've seen it, its pretty boring to observe everytime thereafter. The Irish team shouldn't pay any attention to it and should just get on with the warming up.

[Jackass]

I think the Ireland players should stand around in a huddle doing there team talk and psyching themselves up with the Haka going on in the background. England did this to NZ in the Rugby League game recently and it really rattled NZ, players admitted afterwards they didn;t start as well because of it.

enda1

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

just shut up, and observe one of the greatest spectacles in world sport with the respect it deserves

Its not sport, its dancing!

Why does it "deserve" respect?

noel farrell

stand round laughing at grown men makeing fools of themselves :Dcheers

twinytwo

let them do it But the other shouldnt have to stand there and look at it out of respect...i mean seriously do u honestly think someone like paul o connell gets intimidated by some dudes waving their arms around.. eh no... the back line should drill balls at themor form a circle around them and start walking inwards screaming some irish slang

anonymous_joe

twinytwo wrote: »

let them do it But the other shouldnt have to stand there and look at it out of respect...i mean seriously do u honestly think someone like paul o connell gets intimidated by some dudes waving their arms around.. eh no... the back line should drill balls at themor form a circle around them and start walking inwards screaming some irish slang

It gets the New Zealanders pumped up, that might worry him slightly.

It gives NZ a pyschological advantage, England in the Rugbly League pissed them off and it actually worked well for them, the ABs were apparently quite distracted the first few minutes of the game.

spoon

The correct response would be to haka back at them. Given that the Irish don't really have a tradition of using the Haka, we should have probably do an Irish dance. That would scare them surely?

Carturo

The Haka is embarrassing. It's a joke. I don't see how that could unsettle anyone.

TarfHead

enda1 wrote: »

Why does it "deserve" respect?

It's a keystone of NZ rugby culture and, as hosts or guests, we should be gracious. It doesn't give them any advantage and it adds to the spectacle of attending the game.

I was in the Havelock Square end for the RWC 1991 semi-final against Australia and, to be surrounded by a load of NZ supporters chanting the words, is one of my best rugby memories.

Remember, it wasn't always so. If you see footage of the Haka from the 1980s, or before, it was very different to what it has become. There is a documentary on Setanta tonight about the 1978 game against Munster - they may have footage.

twinytwo

Carturo wrote: »

The Haka is embarrassing. It's a joke. I don't see how that could unsettle anyone.

but then none off us has stood on the pitch agaisnt it and realised what was coming our way

anonymous_joe

TarfHead wrote: »

It's a keystone of NZ rugby culture and, as hosts or guests, we should be gracious. It doesn't give them any advantage and it adds to the spectacle of attending the game.

I was in the Havelock Square end for the RWC 1991 semi-final against Australia and, to be surrounded by a load of NZ supporters chanting the words, is one of my best rugby memories.

Remember, it wasn't always so. If you see footage of the Haka from the 1980s, or before, it was very different to what it has become. There is a documentary on Setanta tonight about the 1978 game against Munster - they may have footage.

Lies.

It gives them a psychological advantage of the highest order. Take the infamous game against Wales when the Welsh asked for it to be done before the anthems. Now why would New Zealand refuse? Well, because that would give them a Haka, followed by an anthem that kinda sucks (so does ours(and ok it's not our national anthem, but the Irfu's), not their fault, curse the Irish blokes who wrote both) which is then followed by a belting rendition of Cymru's by their massed ranks of fans. Means the Welsh go out with their blood up. A haka done in a repsectfully silent stadium lets the New Zealanders rouse themselves. These things are evolutions of war dances. Why do you think our ancestors went all shouty and did their equivalents back when they were hitting each other with bits of pointy metal?

Look, I've plenty of respect for New Zealand, the players are renowned for being nice off the pitch usually, New Zealanders are sound, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the All Blacks are a ruthless team, who will cheat gladly, and get themselves any possible advantage during a game. Hence the great love of the Haka, which gives them a wonderful advantage over their rivals, who don't get to do anything similar.

daveharnett

Good response on saturday IMO.
Passing balls around for a few minutes post-haka before allowing the match to start served as a nice anti-climax (for all the good it did us).

villager

maybe we should have got michael flately to teach our lads riverdance and we could have danced while the all blacks did their haka.

Serenity Now!

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Lies.

It gives them a psychological advantage of the highest order. Take the infamous game against Wales when the Welsh asked for it to be done before the anthems. Now why would New Zealand refuse? Well, because that would give them a Haka, followed by an anthem that kinda sucks (so does ours(and ok it's not our national anthem, but the Irfu's), not their fault, curse the Irish blokes who wrote both) which is then followed by a belting rendition of Cymru's by their massed ranks of fans. Means the Welsh go out with their blood up. A haka done in a repsectfully silent stadium lets the New Zealanders rouse themselves. These things are evolutions of war dances. Why do you think our ancestors went all shouty and did their equivalents back when they were hitting each other with bits of pointy metal?

Look, I've plenty of respect for New Zealand, the players are renowned for being nice off the pitch usually, New Zealanders are sound, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the All Blacks are a ruthless team, who will cheat gladly, and get themselves any possible advantage during a game. Hence the great love of the Haka, which gives them a wonderful advantage over their rivals, who don't get to do anything similar.

You've obviously never faced one. Having a team perform a Haka/Siva Tau/Sipi Tau before a game in front of you is no biggie really.
Typically with Irish rugby, everyone absolutely distracted by every element possible except those that are really relevant like the games performances etc.

anonymous_joe

Serenity Now! wrote: »

You've obviously never faced one. Having a team perform a Haka/Siva Tau/Sipi Tau before a game in front of you is no biggie really.
Typically with Irish rugby, everyone absolutely distracted by every element possible except those that are really relevant like the games performances etc.

Not from a team of giant professionals, no. From some 12 year olds, yes. :pac:

I don't think it intimidates the opposition, but I think it gets those doing it psyched up, if ya get me?

Paulw

The Haka is a challenge. It is supposed to challenge the opposition in to action.

So, the proper response is to face it and deal with it.

Willie Anderson had the right idea and that's the proper response.

il gatto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emJyEa4z2Ec
Makes you wonder how the high octane, throat slitting Haka of today relates to this:rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b28czPDZgvs

It's a way of psyching up/psyching out your opponant. Of course yelling war crys and making threatening motions at an opponant who isn't expected to do likewise is giving them an mental advantage. That's why it has developed into such an intense form as opposed to some of the above links.
But it wasn't always performed after the host's anthem. In fact the debacle in the Millenium Stadium a few years back had precedent from a tour in the twenties where Wales' anthem was sung after the Haka.

TarfHead

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Lies.

It gives them a psychological advantage of the highest order.

It's only a lie if it is objectively untrue. Since they always play after performing the Haka (even if only in the warm-up area), one can not quantify the psychological advantage of playing with, or without it.

If the opposition are intimidated by it and let it affect their performance, then they don't deserve to win.

NZ were, at least, 19 points better than IRE. How many of those points can be attributed to the Haka ? I suggest zero.

What psychological advantage did it give them in any of their exits from the RWC tournaments since 1987 ?

ALH-06

TarfHead wrote: »

It's only a lie if it is objectively untrue. Since they always play after performing the Haka (even if only in the warm-up area), one can not quantify the psychological advantage of playing with, or without it.

If the opposition are intimidated by it and let it affect their performance, then they don't deserve to win.

NZ were, at least, 19 points better than IRE. How many of those points can be attributed to the Haka ? I suggest zero.

What psychological advantage did it give them in any of their exits from the RWC tournaments since 1987 ?

No-one's trying to quantify the advantage the Haka gives the All Blacks, TarfHead. Just the fact that it gives them a definite psychological advantage.

Think of pre-match speeches in the dressing room. Team huddles on the pitch before kick-off. All these are designed to give the players psychological strength before the match begins. Psychology in sport is absolutely massive, it affects every aspect of every sport. The Haka provides a huge psychological boost right before kick-off, and importantly, one that the opposition can't possibly replicate.

And it also serves to intimidate the opposition, of course it does. Anyone that thinks otherwise has clearly never played the All Blacks! NO-ONE can state that having the likes of McCaw, Williams, Mealamu, Tialata do the Haka in front of you wouldn't psyche you out in the slightest... To say otherwise is ridiculous!

toomevara

Excellent article from todays guardian....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2008/nov/18/newzealand-rugbyunion

Nail on the head as far as I'm concerned...

Eoin

I think the idea of these massive rugby players practising a little dance routine for before a game is quite funny, not to mention "Deep Throat" Ali Williams:

anonymous_joe

TarfHead wrote: »

It's only a lie if it is objectively untrue. Since they always play after performing the Haka (even if only in the warm-up area), one can not quantify the psychological advantage of playing with, or without it.

If the opposition are intimidated by it and let it affect their performance, then they don't deserve to win.

NZ were, at least, 19 points better than IRE. How many of those points can be attributed to the Haka ? I suggest zero.

What psychological advantage did it give them in any of their exits from the RWC tournaments since 1987 ?

How can you quantify that?

You suggest zero, because you can't know. None of us can.

Look, I don't think professional lads are going to be particularly intimidated by the Haka, but I seriously doubt the lads doing it are unmoved. I think they will absolutely be more psyched up. That gives them a decided and definite advantage. The fact that they created such a massive fuss when Wales tried to minimise its effect is indicative of the value they place on it.

Serenity Now!

toomevara wrote: »

Excellent article from todays guardian....

No such thing.

toomevara

Serenity Now! wrote: »

No such thing.

Shouldn't you be in bed Mrs Thatcher, having some cocoa?;)

helimachoptor

Was in NZ a couple of years back and had a traditional Haka performed for me, some experience and that was just by one Maori guy. To have 25 of these guys doing it definitely gives them an advantage.

Serenity Now!

toomevara wrote: »

Shouldn't you be in bed Mrs Thatcher, having some cocoa?;)

lol*














*I'm no right-wing either actually, mate. Can't stand pro-agendaic bullsh papers from Fleet St.

TarfHead

ALH-06 wrote: »

No-one's trying to quantify the advantage the Haka gives the All Blacks, TarfHead. Just the fact that it gives them a definite psychological advantage... To say otherwise is ridiculous!

How is it a 'fact', if it cannot be proven ? You believe it to be true, I believe it to be not true.

Suppose it does give them an advantage ? Yet, they are beatable. So, even with a assumed advantage, that 'advantage' is not sufficient to be the difference between winning and losing.

If this is correct, then what's the issue ? If it is not correct, then how come they lose, occasionally ?

TarfHead

toomevara wrote: »

Excellent article from todays guardian....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2008/nov/18/newzealand-rugbyunion

Nail on the head as far as I'm concerned...

You're using Frank Keating to justify an argument !

Hilarious :rolleyes:

The man rarely made sense when he was a full-time journalist. He hasn't gained any insight in the many years since his retirement :P !

toomevara

TarfHead wrote: »

You're using Frank Keating to justify an argument !

Hilarious :rolleyes:

The man rarely made sense when he was a full-time journalist. He hasn't gained any insight in the many years since his retirement :P !

Yes ol' crazy Keating loves a rant...nice polemic though, dont always or indeed, often, agree with him, but thats spot on....

RugbyFanatic

I think the opposition team should goad them a la football factory

COME ON THEN LETS F'ING HAVE IT

ALH-06

TarfHead wrote: »

Suppose it does give them an advantage ? Yet, they are beatable. So, even with a assumed advantage, that 'advantage' is not sufficient to be the difference between winning and losing.

What's your point? No-one has said here that the All Blacks are unbeatable. The psychological edge that the Haka provides won't usually be the difference betweem winning and losing, and no-one claimed it ever was.

But the point is that the Haka can only be advantageous to the players involved, and intimidating to their opponents. You obviously don't think so, but I'd say every All Black and most of their opponents would disagree with you.

Paulw

Lovely to see the Munster NZ lads do their own Haka. Impressive. Shame they didn't do it at the same time as NZ. Wonderful atmosphere for the game.

Sophisticated6y

Willy Anderson it ALL THE WAY!
That was epic stuff, definitely gets the heart pumping. He gets right in their face!!

We could play Linda Martin "why me?"
That scares me

Pinetree Boy

Sorry- love the spirit showed by the Irish today but the guy who wrote this is an insulting wanker!!

Maybe he should take a poll from Munster fans at today's game and see if they would have preferred that the haka wasn't done.

CJTobin

The best response Ireland could give to the Haka would be a quick Riverdance, IMO. That'd show NZ that we're serious!:pac:

Teferi

twinytwo wrote: »

i mean seriously do u honestly think someone like paul o connell gets intimidated by some dudes waving their arms around.

I was watching one of the Irish dvds or maybe it was on tv but POC was complaining about something and goes "the all blacks get to do their little dance". Best line I have ever heard.

TarfHead

Teferi wrote: »

I was watching one of the Irish dvds or maybe it was on tv but POC was complaining about something and goes "the all blacks get to do their little dance". Best line I have ever heard.

He was on the 'Alone It Stands' documentary on setanta this week and, in the context of the Haka, said that is why the Irish keep on their tracksuits until after the Haka is finished. The time taken to remove the tracksuits is intended to take the 'sting' out of the Haka.

And then we lose :rolleyes:

lottodrink

ironingbored wrote: »

I just wanted to see if anyone had any opinions as to how the Irish players should respond to the Haka. Should they ignore it, link arms, do a Willie Anderson?

My preference would be for the team to link arms at a respectful distance and then applaud their guests once it finishes. This would be both respectful and take the psychological edge off the Haka by looking at it as a performance rather than a throwing down of the gauntlet.

If not the above, then imagine if Ireland secretly studied the Haka and did one back as good as the All Blacks had done! Now that would be **** cool!

Yeah I agree with your 1st point. Did Munster not do the Haka a few ago already?? Didnt help them much lol although they probably should have won so Iv heard.

Get Michael Flattely out for a riverdance;)

patser grey

The Irish team should had brought michael flatley along and perform the river dance, that would have scared the **** out of them and we'd still have lost.

cmcsoft

They should definitely approach the HAKA and stand toe to toe with them. I think it gives an excellent curtain raiser to the game but find in Ireland's games against New Zealand recently it has been the only entertaining point of the game.

Have to give a mention to Munster v NZ game, what a spectacle, excellent game of rugby

Crash

The Welsh response to the Haka was excellent I thought.

Goodluck2me

CJTobin wrote: »

The best response Ireland could give to the Haka would be a quick Riverdance,

lottodrink wrote: »

Get Michael Flattely out for a riverdance;)

patser grey wrote: »

The Irish team should had brought michael flatley along and perform the river dance.

Ban for anyone else who mentions this again please! We can't bring up the haka without bloody riverdance being mentioned :rolleyes: