The Swim/Bike/Run Thread

MCOS

Welcome to the Swim/Bike/Run chat, thank you for dropping in

I have a couple of questions and it would be brilliant if you could pick just one at a time and contribute to someone elses post instead of answering everthing at once!

1. Since I've decided to do a Triathlon everyone says that I will catch the 'bug' after my first sprint. What is the 'bug' and how exactly did you catch it?

2. Is the 'bug' dangerous ?

3. What do you do about your weakest discipline?

4. What is the difference between a road bike and a triathon bike and why did I see Elite Triathletes using road bikes at the Olympics?

5. Whats the difference between doing a 10k road race and a 10k in a Triathlon?

6. What tips do you have for quick transitions?

7. What are the main differences (apart from volume) between training for sprint Triathlons and Ironman Triathlons?

8. What do I need to know about the open water swim in a Triathlon, tecnique, mass starts, currents, wet suits etc...?

9. How does the Irish Triathlon ranking points system work and is it fair?

10. If you have a question about Triathlon that I haven't mentioned, what is it ?


This is one of a couple of threads to test the popularity of Triathon chat on Boards.ie, if it dies out it dies out...

tunney

MCOS wrote: »

4. What is the difference between a road bike and a triathon bike and why did I see Elite Triathletes using road bikes at the Olympics?

a) Geometry - 79 degrees rather that 74 or so, means the whole body can be rotated forward (and onto aerobars) to present a smaller frontal area and thereby reduced your co-efficient of drag.
b) Tubing - generally aerodynamically shaped tubes on tri/tt bikes. Less common on road bikes

Age group racing (the Irish domestic scene) is non-drafting, hence the aero rigs. Elite racing is drafting, basically a road race, and they ride in packs. Less of a need for aero rigs and plus the fact aerobars are deemed illegal by ITU rules

MCOS

Thanks Tunney, the idea was just to pick one question and answer that! The reason I said that was because I predicted you would do exactly what you did !! I was just testing to see if these threads would vanish off the screen which would obviously mean that there isn't enough Tri banter going on to justify a Forum for it! I know Topics are raised but they are quickly answered and are lost, thus the same questions kind of pop up again. I figured if there was a popular enough Tri chat thread there could be a Tri stickie It would be a good place for newbies to go and read a bit. I know there are not so many Tri posters here and they probably have to answer the same questions over and over!

Seriously though, thanks for your response. On the Bike, apart from the drafting bit would you use a road bike for a Hilly course or do you tuck into your Tri bars for a thrill downhill?

Highway_To_Hell

MCOS wrote: »

2. Is the 'bug' dangerous ?

Not dangerous just expensive.

liamo

MCOS wrote: »

1. Since I've decided to do a Triathlon everyone says that I will catch the 'bug' after my first sprint. What is the 'bug' and how exactly did you catch it?

I'll take this one since I'm new to the sport having just finished my first season and have well and truly caught the "bug".

What is the bug and how did I catch it?
Well, for me I'd say it started with the feeling of tremendous satisfaction and accomplishment on completing my first triathlon having spent a year or so going from a pretty overweight, unfit, McDonalds scoffing, wine guzzling couch potato to the Adonis I now see in the mirror each morning (Yeah, in my dreams). After that first race, I couldn't wait to get another one under my belt.

That feeling didn't lessen over the next couple of races because they were damned hard in terrible conditions and I was delighted to see my performance improve.

I think the bug has evolved somewhat now. I'm no longer satisfied with simply completing the distance - for 2009 I want to improve my times (dramatically) at sprint and step up a distance to Olympic Distance as well.

The bug manifests itself in compulsive reading of books and web-sites for tips on how to improve (although, of course, my time would probably be better spent out training instead of reading). I also seem to spend rather a lot of time on Wiggle and ChainReaction's sites. The amount of alcohol I will consume on a weekend night is dictated by what time I will be out training the next morning and whether it's a bike or a run morning.

There is always something new that I absolutely have to have for my bike. Whether it's a warmer set of overshoes or gloves or a better bike computer or better rain-gear. Fortunately, my wife laughs at my attempts to get her involved in triathlon and she is able to be objective and keep my spending in check.

I bought myself a lovely new road bike as a reward for completing my first tri. At the end of next season I'm sure I'll be able to make a good argument to my finance department for the absolute need for a proper tri bike. At that point I think I will have well and truly gone over to the dark side and my eternal soul will be lost.

Do yourself a favour and run away quickly while you still can !!!

MCOS

Highway_To_Hell wrote: »

Not dangerous just expensive.

Would you imagine this is a reason that people try a Tri but don't follow through? I got a bike from Wiggle and got some components. I have yet to get a wet suit. There is a fair few bits to get including TI membership, club membership, swim session prices etc..

I saw that some sites do Triathlon starter packs. Do you know if these are truly good value?

MCOS

Anyone else care to venture an answer to one of my questions

Thank you:D

crosbie

MCOS wrote: »

Would you imagine this is a reason that people try a Tri but don't follow through? I got a bike from Wiggle and got some components. I have yet to get a wet suit. There is a fair few bits to get including TI membership, club membership, swim session prices etc..

I saw that some sites do Triathlon starter packs. Do you know if these are truly good value?

As for the wetsuit its best not to invest too heavily for your first tri either hire one or (what I did and would highly recommend it!!) buy an ex-hire wet suit such as the Foor from TriUK here http://triuk.com//index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=95&Itemid=26.
The suits are pretty good and from this base model you can get an idea of what you would like to upgrade and what is ok.....
Just remember to keep the spending in check and train properly. The mistake I made is too much time on the net thinking carbon-this and aero-that would make me faster. In reality if I had spent that time actually training my speeds would have increased....:D

OuterBombie

I'll bite, 8 years triathlon experience, it was the Y2k bug that got me.

MCOS wrote: »

3. What do you do about your weakest discipline?

Easy, work on it. Train your weaknesses, race your strengths. Its best to be consistent at all three as opposed to super strong at one. A mid-packer swim/bike/run will always get you up there.

MCOS wrote: »

4. What is the difference between a road bike and a triathon bike and why did I see Elite Triathletes using road bikes at the Olympics?

Road bike - designed for doing long miles, ideally in a group. Also likes to corner and go down hills fast. When fitted correctly its an extension of the body. Tri Bike - designed for going in a straight line fast and solo. More aerodynamic but as a result less comfortable.

There are exceptions to this obviously. A road bike can also be setup to be a tri bike and vice versa but generally this results in poorer handling.

Success at biking results from time in the saddle. Hence a road bike is a good recommendation for a first bike. Its comfortable and will get you out there. You can pick up a tri bike later when the recession ends or you think you are competitive.

Elite triathlons follow different rules. Pack cycling is allowed to enhance the TV experience. The average age-group triathlete does not need to worry about this.

MCOS wrote: »

5. Whats the difference between doing a 10k road race and a 10k in a Triathlon?

Go out and run a 1/2 marathon, then start your 10k race. This is what a 10k in a triathlon feels like.

Plus race organisers like to outdo one another so expect the 10K to involve various hills, turnabouts, sand, stairs, really just general torture techniques. Impossible to compare to a flat 10k road race.

MCOS wrote: »

6. What tips do you have for quick transitions?

Keep it simple. All race gear on under wetsuit.

T1: wetsuit off, bike shoes on, helmet on, unrack bike, go.
T2: rack bike, helmet off, bike shoes off, run shoes on, go.

Practise this at home before the race. Morning of the event scout the entrance/exit of transition and know where your spot it. Sounds easy but when the blood is everywhere except your brain, people make mistakes.

MCOS wrote: »

7. What are the main differences (apart from volume) between training for sprint Triathlons and Ironman Triathlons?

Same as difference between a 5k and a marathon. Anyone can complete an Ironman but it does take a couple of years before you'll race one. The race itself (ironman) is overrated, its the training thats tough.

MCOS wrote: »

8. What do I need to know about the open water swim in a Triathlon, tecnique, mass starts, currents, wet suits etc...?

Just really have confidence in your swimming ability. If the group start is scary, just wait 30 secs, let them go and then start. The race is rarely won by the first person out of the water so your goal for the swim should be to be as economical as possible. The rest comes with race experience.

Triathlon is great and often more rewarding then just running or doing any of the sports individually. There is however a lot to learn. My advice would be to enter a few of the smaller races and take it from there, sure learning is the fun part. :cool:

Ray.

hunnymonster

OuterBombie wrote: »

IAnyone can complete an Ironman but it does take a couple of years before you'll race one. The race itself (ironman) is overrated, its the training thats tough.

QFT

MCOS

Thanks Ray, much appreciated. 8 years, how do feel the sport has progressed in Ireland since you took it up?

hunnymonster wrote: »

QFT

QFT??

hunnymonster

MCOS wrote: »

QFT??

quoted for truth

MCOS wrote: »

8. What do I need to know about the open water swim in a Triathlon, tecnique, mass starts, currents, wet suits etc...

Don't get too hung up on the swim. Triathlons in Ireland never have a real mass start with thousands of people trying to get into the same bit off water. I would guess anything more than about 150 and there will be wave starts. Most of the thumping/pulling/leverage in Ireland occurs at the front of the pack and is intentional to try and put the other guy off. Further back people are more considerate. Oversea's it's a much more physical swim both at the front and the back. I've found the americans particularly bullish.

Bruce11

Welcome to the Swim/Bike/Run chat, thank you for dropping in

9. How does the Irish Triathlon ranking points system work and is it fair?

The National Series is generally listed as the league and where you can see how you rank against others. TI have it up electronically and it can used to show age groups, male/female and clubs.

It is slightly complicated but on the TI website they have the formula up to work out how one achieves points from a race. Certain races are included in the National series; NS is on the website beside the race listing.

To get a full scoring one must complete 6 races. The 6 races are a combination of 3 olympic distance NS races, 2 sprint distance NS tri races and your best result from any other NS tri race, that can a sprint, olympic or middle distance tri.

TI have at least 8 races of olympic distance, 8 races of sprint distance and 2 middle distance races that people triathletes can compete in to achieve a full scoring.

The person who finishes in the 30th percentile position in a given NS is allocated 100 points, then they use formulas given this persons time to calculate the points for the winner and everyone else. A link to better explanation is http://www.triathlonireland.com/filemgmt_data/files/NS_scoring.pdf

OuterBombie

MCOS wrote: »

Thanks Ray, much appreciated. 8 years, how do feel the sport has progressed in Ireland since you took it up?

Well I did Joey Hannon for my first race and Kilkee as my first big one in 2000. Kilkee had 60 people competing I think. They pretty much sell out now, with 450 if not more lining out in the bay.

It was super to be involved while the sport was on the way up, one summer I raced for 12 weekends in a row, all over the country, great times. Finished it up with the first Kenmare race and then the Dublin marathon, talk about burn out!

Ray.

MCOS

Jaysus, that was an active summer and Autumn!

I was wondering actually what the body will feel like after doing an Olympic Distance Tri and a Marathon. I'll know in a few months but do you generally recover faster after a Tri?

OuterBombie

MCOS wrote: »

Jaysus, that was an active summer and Autumn!

I was wondering actually what the body will feel like after doing an Olympic Distance Tri and a Marathon. I'll know in a few months but do you generally recover faster after a Tri?

Well depends on how fit you are and how tough the race was! Presuming you've training correctly for a triathon then you'll recover after a day or two from an Olypmic distance race. At the end of the day its the run that really hurts the body, as a marathon distance effort will dictate.

Obviously I wouldn't recommend all that racing but having your training peak for two/three races in a month period works well. For a good tri season/marathon year, i'd recommend training for Tri's in June/July, then rest for a week or two and get stuck into the marathon work.

My .02 recessionary cents....

Abhainn

I once was amazed at how dudes can race every weekend or take in so many long events in the one year.
Yes you can probably just expect do PB in two or possibly three of those events but I'm certain your body become conditioned and some events probably end up been like training sessions, though tough training sessions!

In 2008 there is a contributor on boards who did 4 marathons in 2008 (one an ultra) 4 or so tri's including a half iron man.
A few weeks after the half IM he did Berlin marathon (I beat him there ). He then did Dublin like me but beat me there by a couple of mins:( - a sub 3 no less
I couldn't understand how he managed the latter after the long year and with little recovery .

Ok my point is the more of these events you do the more you want to do, the stronger you get.

MCOS

Abhainn wrote: »

I once was amazed at how dudes can race every weekend or take in so many long events in the one year.
Yes you can probably just expect do PB in two or possibly three of those events but I'm certain your body become conditioned and some events probably end up been like training sessions, though tough training sessions!

In 2008 there is a contributor on boards who did 4 marathons in 2008 (one an ultra) 4 or so tri's including a half iron man.
A few weeks after the half IM he did Berlin marathon (I beat him there ). He then did Dublin like me but beat me there by a couple of mins:( - a sub 3 no less
I couldn't understand how he managed the latter after the long year and with little recovery .

Ok my point is the more of these events you do the more you want to do, the stronger you get.

Madness! So Abhainn did you get you arse out on the bike yet?

tunney

Abhainn wrote: »

I once was amazed at how dudes can race every weekend or take in so many long events in the one year.
Yes you can probably just expect do PB in two or possibly three of those events but I'm certain your body become conditioned and some events probably end up been like training sessions, though tough training sessions!

In 2008 there is a contributor on boards who did 4 marathons in 2008 (one an ultra) 4 or so tri's including a half iron man.
A few weeks after the half IM he did Berlin marathon (I beat him there ). He then did Dublin like me but beat me there by a couple of mins:( - a sub 3 no less
I couldn't understand how he managed the latter after the long year and with little recovery .

Ok my point is the more of these events you do the more you want to do, the stronger you get.

I disagree.

While this over racing approach works for some people, for most it will result in reduced levels of performance and increased injuries.

An example of someone who it works for - http://www.petrvabrousek.eu/en/kategorie/results.aspx

However for most sensible consistent training will see more gains than overracing.

Abhainn

MCOS wrote: »

Madness! So Abhainn did you get you arse out on the bike yet?

Yes MCOS been out on a couple 60k rides. Good to get back out though the wind, rain and cold don't make it easy this time of year.

MCOS

good stuff Abhainn. Have you done many Tris? The Beast of the East is in your neck of the woods no? Hoping to get some light this week so I can get on the bike midweek for a session

Bruce11

Beast of the East

Didn't compete but watched it with a view to competing in the event next week. Plan to enter the event and attempt to finish it. Good size field started in its first year, well done to Wicklow Tri.

The swim was felt by some to be slightly longer than 1500 metres, it was a cold dark dark lake and the wind was blowing down the back straight of the lake causing a current to swim against.

The bike was the toughest section I am told, out of Lough Dan, up to Roundwood, ramps into that village, Along to Annamoe and then along the Rathdrum road. This is an undulating course with lots of twisty roads and some difficult climbs. A turnaround point and back to Laragh where there is a stiff, stiff, stiff climb :eek: up with 4 Km to go, just thinking of the run and you have this energy sapping climb. Short in that it is less than 2KM of a climb and then a hairy decent.

Run is hilly and after what you have done is going to drain the reserves even more. Not a course to be looking for a PB on.

:confused: And did I say there is a tough climb before the end of the cycle, not sure I emphasised it. :rolleyes:

Abhainn

MCOS just started the tri's this year.
The Salmon Run Sprint in Ballina and the week after the Beast of the East. Both accounts can be found in my report below.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055319897&page=2

My current bike are on the roads of the Beast of the East. Sometimes I wish for flat roads but then it would be boring!

MCOS

Abhainn wrote: »

MCOS just started the tri's this year.
The Salmon Run Sprint in Ballina and the week after the Beast of the East. Both accounts can be found in my report below.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055319897&page=2

My current bike are on the roads of the Beast of the East. Sometimes I wish for flat roads but then it would be boring!

Good log Abhainn, any plans to kick it off again and put in this Forum?! I'm not surprised you are passing people out on the run, you have great stamina:). You did very well on doing 2 Olympic Tris and the Beast of the East sounds like a tough one! Are you planing many for 2009? I'm probably being a bit ambitious putting Kenmare down as a goal but I plan to have a few Olympic and sprint Tris under my belt by the time it comes around.

Abhainn

MCOS wrote: »

Good log Abhainn, any plans to kick it off again and put in this Forum?! I'm not surprised you are passing people out on the run, you have great stamina:). You did very well on doing 2 Olympic Tris and the Beast of the East sounds like a tough one! Are you planing many for 2009? I'm probably being a bit ambitious putting Kenmare down as a goal but I plan to have a few Olympic and sprint Tris under my belt by the time it comes around.

MCOS I have 3 main events for for 2009.
Connemara Ultra - I am going to start a log on that this week this week actually.
After that half Ironman in the Autumn - though haven't decided which one yet followed by a fast Dublin marathon. There will also be shorter races in prep for those and I will have better idea once the tri calender is published.
It can be difficult planning events around family life though.

You putting in a great effort at the moment - fair play.

Killgore Trout

Bruce11 wrote: »

Beast of the East

Didn't compete but watched it with a view to competing in the event next week. Plan to enter the event and attempt to finish it. Good size field started in its first year, well done to Wicklow Tri.

The swim was felt by some to be slightly longer than 1500 metres, it was a cold dark dark lake and the wind was blowing down the back straight of the lake causing a current to swim against.

The bike was the toughest section I am told, out of Lough Dan, up to Roundwood, ramps into that village, Along to Annamoe and then along the Rathdrum road. This is an undulating course with lots of twisty roads and some difficult climbs. A turnaround point and back to Laragh where there is a stiff, stiff, stiff climb :eek: up with 4 Km to go, just thinking of the run and you have this energy sapping climb. Short in that it is less than 2KM of a climb and then a hairy decent.

Run is hilly and after what you have done is going to drain the reserves even more. Not a course to be looking for a PB on.

:confused: And did I say there is a tough climb before the end of the cycle, not sure I emphasised it. :rolleyes:

Accurate description - I did the beast as my first tri (guaranteed PB - since broken ) and it lived up to its name. I actually enjoyed the swim - though it was definitely longer than 1500. Horrid climb out of Laragh on the return to Lough Dan on the cycle. My running is the weakest of the three and the first hill out of Lough Dan was murderous.

MCOS

Is there any reason why the Joey Hannon is not a national series race? Are only OW swimming events included?

tunney

MCOS wrote: »

Is there any reason why the Joey Hannon is not a national series race? Are only OW swimming events included?

Yip.