The Triathlon Training Thread

MCOS

Training questions, thoughts, advice all welcome here. Whether you are thinking about doing your first Sprint or have a few Ironman distances under your belt, this is the place to chat about Triathlon training .

This is one of a couple of threads to test the popularity of Triathon chat on Boards.ie (sorry can Mod put in main Forum, posted here by accident )

MCOS

What is your favourite Brick session?

What kind of brick sets would you recommend for an Olympic distance Triathlon?

911sc

In the same boat as yourself, CMOS.
I plan on doing tri next year, and don't know how to structure my training. My first tri will be the Athy Olympic in May 09 unless to do the one in NAC to get a taste.

So, this is what i am doing:
- Swim once per week for approx one hour, broken down into 50s and 100s warm up, 200s and then 1*750m (most i have swam til now) followed by few 100s, and some TI balancing drills.
- Cycling once per week, for either 20kms or 40kms (1h15min) followed respectively by either 5km or 10kms (55min) run.
- Run only twice per week 12kms (one loop). Run are short at the moment, but plan on increasing distance and volume after christmas as i'll start training for Paris marathon.

I used to do CT twice per week for core building, but now once every forthnight. The class is going down hill, boring, not structured anymore as instructor (new one) don't give a sh?t. Too busy texting and looking at her stop watch. Pity as it used to be so good & enjoyable.

MCOS

Cool! Really looking forward to doing my first in May too. I will probably do a couple of duathlons and am half considering the Connemara half or a 10 miler

wellboss

MCOS,

Trust me when you do your first triathlon you will be addicted, I did my first one in athy (sprint) last year and I cannot get enough of it since. I think i went on to do about 9 races overall.

Are you a member of a club, I would highly recommend joining one if your are not. I had so much craic last year with my club mates out training and of course at the post race parties:D:D. I am working over seas at the moment and it can be very testing mentally training on my own but im sticking at it.
Anyway keep up the training, only a few more months of cold, dark and damp weather. Trust me itl all be worth it when you finish your first race.

DAVE_K

What is your favourite Brick session?

What kind of brick sets would you recommend for an Olympic distance Triathlon?

I've not a lot of experience of various triathlon training techniques but I used to enjoy in the summer getting up at 5.30 and doing a 30 mile cycle followed by an 8 mile run on a nice course with a few hills.
The feeling of satisfaction going into work with people who'd just dragged themselves out of the scratcher was great.....thinking to yourself the adventure you'd already had that day before work had even started.
It did also give me confidence for knowing I'd get through the real thing when it came.

BRING BACK EARLY MORNING DAYLIGHT !!!!

Bambaata

That sounds great!! I might try some of that in the year coming. Could hit Howth, park the bike at work and run some of Clontarf Strand before work!

wellboss

Yeah I love that feeling when you go into working after doing a good training session, listening to people moaning about having to get up to early for a 9am start:p:p

tunney

Bambaata wrote: »

That sounds great!! I might try some of that in the year coming. Could hit Howth, park the bike at work and run some of Clontarf Strand before work!

Sounds like a fun session, however whats the point in it?

Just because its a cycle followed by a run doesn't make it an effective brick session and certainly not appropriate for this time of the year!

wellboss

tunney wrote: »

Sounds like a fun session, however whats the point in it?

Just because its a cycle followed by a run doesn't make it an effective brick session and certainly not appropriate for this time of the year!

Why not,

Even if both the cycle and run are done as endurance workouts? Would it not be considered a brick endurance session?

MCOS

tunney wrote: »

Sounds like a fun session, however whats the point in it?

Just because its a cycle followed by a run doesn't make it an effective brick session and certainly not appropriate for this time of the year!

Eh.. what do you mean, whats the point? What wrong with 50k bike and 8 mile run before work. Thats at least 2.5 hours of a session before you log in and watch everyone wake themselves up with coffees!

What would you consider an effective brick session, and at what time of year? You are doing an IM next year no, so are you dissing this vibe by your own standards?!

tunney

MCOS wrote: »

Eh.. what do you mean, whats the point? What wrong with 50k bike and 8 mile run before work. Thats at least 2.5 hours of a session before you log in and watch everyone wake themselves up with coffees!

What would you consider an effective brick session, and at what time of year? You are doing an IM next year no, so are you dissing this vibe by your own standards?!

Firstly doing an IM does not imply anything of any standards.
People can do an 8:50 IM or a 16:59:59.9 IM.

What I mean by whats the point is that while yes 2.5 hours training before work is great and all I question the benefits of the particular session.

Also I don't believe that this time of year is an appropriate time to being doing bricks. Stick to quality individual sport sessions is what I say.

Brick sessions that I have found effective and good fall roughly into two categories - endurance ones and fast ones.

The endurnace ones are longer rides (2-5 hours) followed by a 20-30 minute run. The point is not to get an endurance session by tagging a reasonable length run (8 miles) onto a shortish bike but by doing a longer bike and then running a little off it. After you've done the first 1-2km the "brick effect" is pretty much gone and you're just running on tired legs. Much better off to do a short run off the bike and a long run another time during the week.

The fast ones are tough. Warm up 5 minutes on the turbo and then 5-10 minutes of fast riding with pieces of the riding well above threshold, followed by 2-5 minutes hard running, repeat 3+ times. If you don't puke, not done properly

I won't do any brick work, baring duathlons until 6-8 weeks out from the season proper.

tunney

Don't get me wrong - if the session is just meant as a fun session then no harm. However as an effective use of time to get the most bang for buck then I question it.

My favourite session is the early morning ride, leaving the house a 5-5:30 and spin up to Wicklow and see the sun rise over the mountains and lakes - so relaxing and can't help but put you in a good mood for the day.

DAVE_K

The endurnace ones are longer rides (2-5 hours) followed by a 20-30 minute run. The point is not to get an endurance session by tagging a reasonable length run (8 miles) onto a shortish bike but by doing a longer bike and then running a little off it

I hear ya. As I said myself i've little experience of tri techniques.....but i can see where you're coming from here - it's the first few K that hurt and after that it's like a normal run. Half of it (i think) is familiarising yourself with the feeling so that when you do come to a triathlon you don't freak out thinking you're buggered and know that all you have to do is hang in there and you'll be OK in a couple of K.

while we're at it Tunney what sort of nutrition would you get into you before/during one of your early morning sessions?

wellboss

Cool thats exactly what i was doing, 3 hour rides and then 20-30 mins run,

Cheers

liamo

In support of tunney's point, I read just the other day (in 220 Triathlon, I think) that it wasn't recommended to do a hard bike followed by a hard run. Doing one hard and one easy was the recommendation.

Regularly doing a hard bike followed by a hard run could end up with you overtrained and possibly injured.

Regards,

Liam

MCOS

tunney wrote: »

Don't get me wrong - if the session is just meant as a fun session then no harm. However as an effective use of time to get the most bang for buck then I question it.

My favourite session is the early morning ride, leaving the house a 5-5:30 and spin up to Wicklow and see the sun rise over the mountains and lakes - so relaxing and can't help but put you in a good mood for the day.

Thanks for Clarifying Tunney. I understand the point of getting used to the first few k on jelly legs, so with that in mind I'll lengthen my solo bike and shorten the run

911sc

tunney wrote: »

The endurance ones are longer rides (2-5 hours) followed by a 20-30 minute run.

Would you still ride 2h+ if your goal was to do an Olympic distance tri (ride approx 1h/1h15)? and why?

tunney

911sc wrote: »

Would you still ride 2h+ if your goal was to do an Olympic distance tri (ride approx 1h/1h15)? and why?

Yes I would ride, and did ride, longer when my goals were exclusively Olympics distance races. 3-4 hours minimum for my long spin.

Why?
Because the physiological gains associated with a 1 to 1.5 hour spin aren't really huge. You can't develop your top end if the base isn't there. So this is going to affect your biking speed.

More importantly your run speed in a triathlon is as much about your bike fitness as it is your run fitness. If your long bike is about the same length as the bike leg then you're pretty much at your limit and you won't be able to spank the run.

For an olympic distance I'd go for three bikes a week. One spin an hour or so long (extended commuted??) a turbo and a long spin.

liamo

liamo wrote: »

In support of tunney's point, I read just the other day (in 220 Triathlon, I think) that it wasn't recommended to do a hard bike followed by a hard run. Doing one hard and one easy was the recommendation.

Regularly doing a hard bike followed by a hard run could end up with you overtrained and possibly injured.

A quick update to give my post some context.
The article was by Joe Friel and concerned >1 training sessions per day.
He reckoned that, in this context, brick sessions were ok 2 - 4 times per week, where either the bike or run was hard but not both.

pgibbo

liamo wrote: »

A quick update to give my post some context.
The article was by Joe Friel and concerned >1 training sessions per day.
He reckoned that, in this context, brick sessions were ok 2 - 4 times per week, where either the bike or run was hard but not both.

I knew I had seen that somewhere before. I believe I read it here. Just need to find the time to read more of this book!!!

MCOS

I'm currently using it to do up an 18 week program for my first Tri in May

8 base weeks increasing volume on back 4
8 build weeks increasing intensity on back 4
2 speed weeks dropping volume on 2nd week

MCOS

Anyone got their programme done up for 2009 or a period of 2009 yet? Care to share ? I am currently doing mine up, basing it on the Club programme, Joe Friel, my weaknesses and my schedule but using periods. I'm splitting the year into 4 parts with a goal at the end of each. Its ambitious (for me). I didn't know whether to post here, my fitness log or in the Coaching Template that Hunnymonster set up??

Also, is your programme too personal a thing to have others comment on? I know that the likes of Woddle and Krusty Clown pop theirs up and invite thoughts. I haven't seen any kind of Triathlon programmes up here but would be very interested to see how people tailor set magazine, book, coach, online programmes etc..

Finally are there any generic popular programmes for Triathlon akin to the HH, P&D, Couch to.. xK variations of running programmes?

Thanks

tunney

MCOS wrote: »

Anyone got their programme done up for 2009 or a period of 2009 yet? Care to share ? I am currently doing mine up, basing it on the Club programme, Joe Friel, my weaknesses and my schedule but using periods. I'm splitting the year into 4 parts with a goal at the end of each. Its ambitious (for me). I didn't know whether to post here, my fitness log or in the Coaching Template that Hunnymonster set up??

Also, is your programme too personal a thing to have others comment on? I know that the likes of Woddle and Krusty Clown pop theirs up and invite thoughts. I haven't seen any kind of Triathlon programmes up here but would be very interested to see how people tailor set magazine, book, coach, online programmes etc..

Finally are there any generic popular programmes for Triathlon akin to the HH, P&D, Couch to.. xK variations of running programmes?

Thanks

I'm not aware of any good generic programmes.

Post yours up and I am sure people will comment, prob best in logs.

911sc

MCOS wrote: »

Care to share ? I am currently doing mine up, basing it on the Club programme, Joe Friel, my weaknesses and my schedule but using periods.

I am going to order the book mentioned above, and try to do a king of training plan. At this stage, i have no structured plan and don't really know where to start from.
So i would be very interested in seeing your plan. Thanks

MCOS

Posted the first part in Logs