Dutch ban magic mushrooms

BaconZombie

WTF,

If there was no link between her death and mushrooms why the hell are they banning them?!?!!?!?

THE Netherlands is to ban the growing and selling of magic mushrooms following the deaths of tourists.

The drug, which has a hallucinogenic effect, would be banned from December said the Dutch health ministry.

The death in March last year of a 17-year-old French girl who jumped from an Amsterdam bridge after taking hallucinogenic mushrooms had triggered a controversy in the country over the risks of such drugs.

No link was officially made between her death and the mushrooms but a majority in parliament called for a total ban on the drug.

Use of these mushrooms can "lead to unpredictable behaviour and risk-taking", the ministry said.

Edit:

But another health report published in January 2007 said that while alcohol consumption led to 2050 incidents in 2005, magic mushrooms had caused only 70.

A total ban on all magic mushrooms should lead to the closure of so-called "smartshops" that sell them

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24644949-5001028,00.html

AckwelFoley

BOFH_139 wrote: »

WTF,

If there was no link between her death and mushrooms why the hell are they banning them?!?!!?!?

There is no diirect link between raping a 2 year old and death, but its still not legal..

Plug

snyper wrote: »

There is no diirect link between raping a 2 year old and death, but its still not legal..

your a sick man, you do need help:D

BaconZombie

Since when has it been illegal to die? I know suicide is legal but not all deaths.....

snyper wrote: »

There is no diirect link between raping a 2 year old and death, but its still not legal..

ScumLord

NOOOOOOOO!!!! NO NO NO :mad:


*Jumps off bridge*

ntlbell

BOFH_139 wrote: »

Since when has it been illegal to die? I know suicide is legal but not all deaths.....

girl takes magic mushrooms

jumps of a bridge

no link there at all...

Degsy

Its because dumb-assed foreigners are going over to the dam,caning spliffs they cant handle,swallowing mushrooms they cant handle and going around out of thier skulls before showing up at A&E ranting and raving in the horrors.And getting sick all over the streets.

ntlbell

Degsy wrote: »

Its because dumb-assed foreigners are going over to the dam,caning spliffs they cant handle,swallowing mushrooms they cant handle and going around out of thier skulls before showing up at A&E ranting and raving in the horrors.And getting sick all over the streets.

much like every A&E in Ireland then...

Clare_Guy

ScumLord wrote: »

NOOOOOOOO!!!! NO NO NO :mad:


*Jumps off bridge*

they should ban boards now!!!

Mark200

It always annoys me when people argue that alcohol is more dangerous than the majority of illegal drugs and they back that up by providing numbers on the amount of people harmed by both.

Alcohol is a lot more widely available, therefore it is going to cause more harm. It doesn't mean it's more dangerous.

Degsy

ntlbell wrote: »

much like every A&E in Ireland then...

No,the missing ingredient in this case is drug tourists(which we dont get here) and magic mushrooms.

Big Knox

snyper wrote: »

There is no diirect link between raping a 2 year old and death, but its still not legal..

What an utterly utterly retarded ****ing answer...

ntlbell

Degsy wrote: »

No,the missing ingredient in this case is drug tourists(which we dont get here) and magic mushrooms.

Not at all.

We don't need the tourist's we have our own morons who can't handle

drink/coke/lsd/e

stroll in on a Saturday night some time..

keen

ntlbell wrote: »

Not at all.

We don't need the tourist's we have our own morons who can't handle

drink/coke/lsd/e

stroll in on a Saturday night some time..

But the thread is about magic mushrooms in Amsterdam, not the drug problem in Ireland.

inforfun

BOFH_139 wrote: »

WTF,

If there was no link between her death and mushrooms why the hell are they banning them?!?!!?!?
QUOTE]

Because Holland nowadays has a government of Christian fundamentalists and Muslim huggers who are out to ban everything even remotely fun/enjoyable/ forbidden by a fantasy figure called God/Allah and so on.

And oh... i am Dutch so i know what i am talking about.

ntlbell

keen wrote: »

But the thread is about magic mushrooms in Amsterdam, not the drug problem in Ireland.

Very well observed..

degsy was pointing out that A&E is full of idiots in holland who can't handle the blow and the mushies etc

it's not a problem exclusive to holland..

ScumLord

Mark200 wrote: »

It always annoys me when people argue that alcohol is more dangerous than the majority of illegal drugs and they back that up by providing numbers on the amount of people harmed by both.

Alcohol is a lot more widely available, therefore it is going to cause more harm. It doesn't mean it's more dangerous.

In this instance both are legal so I think the numbers are relivant.

But it's a fair point, I wonder could someone size up the stats on illegal drugs to Alcohol numbers and see what the difference is?

keen

ntlbell wrote: »

Very well observed..

degsy was pointing out that A&E is full of idiots in holland who can't handle the blow and the mushies etc

it's not a problem exclusive to holland..

No Degsy was pointing out that A&E is full of idiot tourists in Holland who can't handle the blow and muschies etc.

The issue would be more prevalent in Holland due too it's laws on drugs.

GG66

Don't you know that Banning Nature will improve people's swimming abilities

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSH6ofHbeUw

ntlbell

keen wrote: »

No Degsy was pointing out that A&E is full of idiot tourists in Holland who can't handle the blow and muschies etc.

The issue would be more prevalent in Holland due too it's laws on drugs.

most countries A&E's are full of idiots who can't handle drink and drugs tourists or not

so the problem, is NOT exclusive to holland....

do you think idiots who are nationals of holland have some inhuman in tolerance to drink and drugs because they're legal?

unless degsy interview;d the attendee's at A&E's in holland it's a daft statment

Degsy

ntlbell wrote: »

most countries A&E's are full of idiots who can't handle drink and drugs tourists or not

so the problem, is NOT exclusive to holland....

do you think idiots who are nationals of holland have some inhuman in tolerance to drink and drugs because they're legal?

unless degsy interview;d the attendee's at A&E's in holland it's a daft statment

Oh shut up.

ChocolateSauce

snyper wrote: »

There is no diirect link between raping a 2 year old and death, but its still not legal..

What kind of logic is that? It shows a total lack of capacity for rational thought or critical evaluation.

Just because someone dies on something once in a while is no reason to ban it. We don't ban tobacco or alcohol, we don't ban dangerous sports etc. It is no ones business what people do so long as they're not hurting others, and I don't recall a single case of someone harming another because of these drugs. Furthermore, in every single case of people dying on these drugs, they have been taking more than one drug, usually alcohol and the psychoactive.

ntlbell

Degsy wrote: »

Oh shut up.

Intelligent and creative as usual.

The amount of people going to A&E because of dope would be relativity small

You would more than likely come down off your stone before you got there..

when it comes to mushrooms someone who is a seasoned tripper can as easily go off on a mad one as much as someone who's never taken them before...

making a blanket statement on idiot tourists is moronic

AckwelFoley

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

What kind of logic is that? It shows a total lack of capacity for rational thought or critical evaluation.

Just because someone dies on something once in a while is no reason to ban it. We don't ban tobacco or alcohol, we don't ban dangerous sports etc. It is no ones business what people do so long as they're not hurting others, and I don't recall a single case of someone harming another because of these drugs. Furthermore, in every single case of people dying on these drugs, they have been taking more than one drug, usually alcohol and the psychoactive.

I think you dont understand what i would imagine is a rather apparent point.

Whether or not someone dies because of the use of the drug (or the action) is not the issue, the harm of the substance (or the action) is.
These mindaltering drugs has being shown to do direct and indirect harm to people.

If you think that fails critical evaluation. Grand im happy for you, go eat a whole pack for all i give a fcuk, but if anyone of my family sarted downing that sh1t - they would get the business end of my boot in their arse.

ChocolateSauce

snyper wrote: »

I think you dont understand what i would imagine is a rather apparent point.

Whether or not someone dies because of the use of the drug (or the action) is not the issue, the harm of the substance (or the action) is.
These mindaltering drugs has being shown to do direct and indirect harm to people.

If you think that fails critical evaluation. Grand im happy for you, go eat a whole pack for all i give a fcuk, but if anyone of my family sarted downing that sh1t - they would get the business end of my boot in their arse.

Well it's nice to hear you'd have to resort to violence to get your point across. It does fail critical evaluation; you've failed to present any evidence of "harm", beyond isolated incidents (invloving alcohol and underage users) which pale in comparison to the risk involved in other legal persuits.

I believe mushrooms and LSD to have an overwhelmingly positive effect on society. Everyone I know who has done them has become a better and happier person because of it. When I first did them I went from a selfish, money-grubbing businessman to idealistic promoter of morals and common good. They really change they way you see the world and make you realise what is important, and more importantly, what isn't.

ntlbell

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I believe mushrooms and LSD to have an overwhelmingly positive effect on society. Everyone I know who has done them has become a better and happier person because of it. When I first did them I went from a selfish, money-grubbing businessman to idealistic promoter of morals and common good. They really change they way you see the world and make you realise what is important, and more importantly, what isn't.

And I know two people, one a 35yr old man who is a mental hospital rocking in a chair in fear of Aliens and what not..

I know another guy in his 30's for the last 15yrs who is afraid to leave his house and think's his familiy are trying to kill him..

they sure can change how you see the world.

it's a bit like saying i know a 90yr old who smoked all his life and didn't get cancer..doesn't mean we should all light up

LSD is a seriously dangerous drug

but i love it..

AckwelFoley

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Well it's nice to hear you'd have to resort to violence to get your point across. It does fail critical evaluation; you've failed to present any evidence of "harm", beyond isolated incidents (invloving alcohol and underage users) which pale in comparison to the risk involved in other legal persuits.

I believe mushrooms and LSD to have an overwhelmingly positive effect on society. .

Ive stopped reading there.

Sorry i cant take you seriously anymore.

ChocolateSauce

snyper wrote: »

Ive stopped reading there.

Sorry i cant take you seriously anymore.

That's ok, I never took you seriously. You're kind of petty.

ChocolateSauce

ntlbell wrote: »

And I know two people, one a 35yr old man who is a mental hospital rocking in a chair in fear of Aliens and what not..

I know another guy in his 30's for the last 15yrs who is afraid to leave his house and think's his familiy are trying to kill him..

they sure can change how you see the world.

it's a bit like saying i know a 90yr old who smoked all his life and didn't get cancer..doesn't mean we should all light up

LSD is a seriously dangerous drug

but i love it..

And you're sure it is drugs, and not some pre-existing biological mental problem that has caused this? People develop paranoia without drugs all the time. That's not to say they cannot contribute, but they don't cause those problems on their own.

jim o doom

ntlbell wrote: »

And I know two people, one a 35yr old man who is a mental hospital rocking in a chair in fear of Aliens and what not..

I know another guy in his 30's for the last 15yrs who is afraid to leave his house and think's his familiy are trying to kill him..

they sure can change how you see the world.

it's a bit like saying i know a 90yr old who smoked all his life and didn't get cancer..doesn't mean we should all light up

LSD is a seriously dangerous drug

but i love it..

Your point is quite fair (and I too love it despite its dangers although I barely touch it these days due to a hairy incident involving it and alcohol a few year back).. But I would argue the point that the two people you know could well have been prone to mental disease which may or may not have manifested through use of the drug. Wheras I know in excess of 30 people who used regularily, none in any sort of bad mental place whatsoever during usage, after usage or now as adults in their late 20s early 30s all gainfully employed, most in happy relationships & generally normal people. bar the occasional bad trip which was recovered from.. (most of us who have tried it have had it happen at least once)

AckwelFoley

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

That's ok, I never took you seriously. You're kind of petty.

Well i think your beautiful.

I love you.

please hold me.

ntlbell

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

And you're sure it is drugs, and not some pre-existing biological mental problem that has caused this? People develop paranoia without drugs all the time. That's not to say they cannot contribute, but they don't cause those problems on their own.

normal fun loving kids..

drop of an acid (not their first time) a trip to a&e

and never returned....

two different incidents same result..


you tell me...

jim o doom

ntlbell wrote: »

normal fun loving kids..

drop of an acid (not their first time) a trip to a&e

and never returned....

two different incidents same result..


you tell me...

well based on my own experiences (you can call me a liar if you wish) having consumed several hundred of the things over 9 years and the same for a large circle of friends comprising at least 30 regular users with similar large amounts of use over time, with NONE of them having experienced what you described (besides the odd bad trip), I would suggest it may have been a chemical imbalance, or some internal problem which was brought to a head by usage of a drug. Also, certain hospitals take in people having a FREAK OUT and not knowing they have been taking LSD prescribe Anti-psychotics to the patients (due to the actions of said patient, doctor believing patient is having a psychotic episode). The combination of these anti psychotics & lsd can be quite damaging to the mind.

ntlbell

jim o doom wrote: »

Your point is quite fair (and I too love it despite its dangers although I barely touch it these days due to a hairy incident involving it and alcohol a few year back).. But I would argue the point that the two people you know could well have been prone to mental disease which may or may not have manifested through use of the drug. Wheras I know in excess of 30 people who used regularily, none in any sort of bad mental place whatsoever during usage, after usage or now as adults in their late 20s early 30s all gainfully employed, most in happy relationships & generally normal people. bar the occasional bad trip which was recovered from.. (most of us who have tried it have had it happen at least once)

You could argue the case that they might of went lu la without taken LSD.

and of course if your around that scene you know lots of people who take it and have no real difficulties in later life...

I've had some horrific experiences and could easily see how it could set off some major problems

thankfully i'm mentally damaged anyway so it can't do much more

Rowley Birkin QC

That article dated 13/11/08 seems very similiar to this one dated 12/10/07.

jim o doom

ntlbell wrote: »

You could argue the case that they might of went lu la without taken LSD.

and of course if your around that scene you know lots of people who take it and have no real difficulties in later life...

I've had some horrific experiences and could easily see how it could set off some major problems

thankfully i'm mentally damaged anyway so it can't do much more

lol ntl re you very last point - ive only had one REALLY bad one (apparently I was catatonic for a bit, totally unresponsive, very very bad experience) and I do not disagree with you, but I still don't view it as "dangerous" when I compare it to the other stuff (especially alcohol) that I and other people use/have used. I have had numberous injuries sustained while drunk, the worst thing that happened the day after my horrendous acid trip was that I decided to take a lot less drugs, marry my long suffering girlfriend & try to get my life in order and stop acting the maggot ) - I still get wasted from time to time, just not 3 days a week every week.. more like every few months.

ntlbell

jim o doom wrote: »

lol ntl re you very last point - ive only had one REALLY bad one (apparently I was catatonic for a bit, totally unresponsive, very very bad experience) and I do not disagree with you, but I still don't view it as "dangerous" when I compare it to the other stuff (especially alcohol) that I and other people use/have used. I have had numberous injuries sustained while drunk, the worst thing that happened the day after my horrendous acid trip was that I decided to take a lot less drugs, marry my long suffering girlfriend & try to get my life in order and stop acting the maggot ) - I still get wasted from time to time, just not 3 days a week every week.. more like every few months.

I remember watching a friend run out on to dual carriage way to "kick" a car doing about 60mph thinking it was just like a baloon etc I've seen it do some strange things. I've also seen idiots full of drink walking out in front of cars or falling asleep on a road....

I think we can safely say in the wrong hands they're both very dangerous drugs;)

jim o doom

ntlbell wrote: »

I remember watching a friend run out on to dual carriage way to "kick" a car doing about 60mph thinking it was just like a baloon etc I've seen it do some strange things. I've also seen idiots full of drink walking out in front of cars or falling asleep on a road....

I think we can safely say in the wrong hands they're both very dangerous drugs;)

Agreed One thing I always have tried to keep in my mind when ruined is; "I am wasted - would I do this sober?" if the answer is no, I try not too

stewie01

one thing id ask is did your friends go mental from taking acid? or did they go mental from taking what they thought was acid???? who knows wat some scum would pass off to you saying its Y when its actually 20% Y mixed with a 80% sh1te.

Its like ppl saying there friend went mental from smoking hash over a period of time, when in fact they were smoking shoe polish plastic and donkey poop. any1 would go mental smoking that constantly

anyway we will never know what exactly caused your friends illnessess(because the only ppl who know what went into the acid are the ppl who made it) but stop spreading lies that they caused it 100%. its giving drugs a bad name.

at least mushys cant be tampered with (i hope).

ntlbell

stewie01 wrote: »

one thing id ask is did your friends go mental from taking acid? or did they go mental from taking what they thought was acid???? who knows wat some scum would pass off to you saying its Y when its actually 20% Y mixed with a 80% sh1te.

Its like ppl saying there friend went mental from smoking hash over a period of time, when in fact they were smoking shoe polish plastic and donkey poop. any1 would go mental smoking that constantly

anyway we will never know what exactly caused your friends illnessess(because the only ppl who know what went into the acid are the ppl who made it) but stop spreading lies that they caused it 100%. its giving drugs a bad name.

at least mushys cant be tampered with (i hope).

read my posts before you come swinging your bat

i said they very well could have had problems that might have developed anyway

keen

ntlbell wrote: »

do you think idiots who are nationals of holland have some inhuman in tolerance to drink and drugs because they're legal?

Of course I don't that's a dumb question, but I can see how the influx of tourists too a city to take drugs normally for the first time would increase the work load of A&E staff.

Tourists are the ones that take the stuff and go walking around the city, anyone with previous experience of them would know that's a bad idea.

ntlbell

keen wrote: »

Of course I don't that's a dumb question, but I can see how the influx of tourists too a city to take drugs normally for the first time would increase the work load of A&E staff.

Tourists are the ones that take the stuff and go walking around the city, anyone with previous experience of them would know that's a bad idea.

no more so than morons coming here in there droves to get paraletic in temple bar

should we start banning drink because of the influx of tourists falling around the streets getting sick and ending up in A&E?

keen

ntlbell wrote: »

no more so than morons coming here in there droves to get paraletic in temple bar

should we start banning drink because of the influx of tourists falling around the streets getting sick and ending up in A&E?

Can you not see the difference?

Most tourists coming here have had previous experience of drink, the people going to the dam for a holiday usually try stuff they haven't for the novelty/laugh, not knowing what their letting themselves in for. It's not a very good comparison.

BaconZombie

Darwin Theory at work?

keen wrote: »

Can you not see the difference?

Most tourists coming here have had previous experience of drink, the people going to the dam for a holiday usually try stuff they haven't for the novelty/laugh, not knowing what their letting themselves in for. It's not a very good comparison.

ScumLord

ntlbell wrote: »

no more so than morons coming here in there droves to get paraletic in temple bar

should we start banning drink because of the influx of tourists falling around the streets getting sick and ending up in A&E?

Yes, I'm going to start a campaign. Ban Alcohol and tobacco or make weed legal. No more double standards.

ntlbell

keen wrote: »

Can you not see the difference?

Most tourists coming here have had previous experience of drink, the people going to the dam for a holiday usually try stuff they haven't for the novelty/laugh, not knowing what their letting themselves in for. It's not a very good comparison.

But the end result is the same?

Two A&E's full of idiots?

ntlbell

ScumLord wrote: »

Yes, I'm going to start a campaign. Ban Alcohol and tobacco or make weed legal. No more double standards.

legalise it all coke/e/speed/acid...tax it to f*ck....

and let nature take it's course

stewie01

i know this is AH therefor this could be a first but my apologies NTLBELL didnt read it that carefully.