Czech president Vaclav Klaus annoys Ireland

BenjAii

"IN AN acrimonious end to his State visit to Ireland Czech president Vaclav Klaus accused Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin of being a "hypocrite", while a number of leading Irish politicians accused Mr Klaus of an unprecedented breach of diplomatic courtesy."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/1113/1226408582949.html?via=mr


The Czech Republic are due to hold the EU presidency in 2009, but thankfully this idiot is only of state, not head of the government.

Biggins

Sorry, he annoyed a group of politicans that happen to disagee with him, Klaus meanwhile is saying something (by the way in a supposed free and democratic society!) the Irish public voted for anyway - but is being ignored by the wasters in the Dail.

He didn't anger Ireland, according to the last referendum vote, he's with us!
He only angered the muppets that are selling our national identity and individual rights as a single nation away.

RedPlanet

Exactly.
It's ironic that the Czech president would express views on the Lisbon Treaty that are far more attuned to the views of the Irish public; and these witless gob****es in the Dail criticize him for it.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Mr.Micro

Libertas stole a march on the incompetent Government, asleep again, and had Mr.Klaus speak on the issue, in what was a private non state occasion, and thats what annoys the Government. Michael Martin looked like he was awoken from hibernation to complain. In reality the people have spoken and rejected the Treaty and the elected representatives of this democratic country, ie, the Government in this case, needs to get real and respect the vote, instead of whinging about Diplomatic etiquette and protocol. Pathetic.

O'Morris

It's a pity he had to piss off the government by ignoring diplomatic protocol like that. What he should have done was come here on a kind of Nicholas Sarkozy type listening exercise to meet with the main political parties and find out just so many of them voted yes to a treaty that was clearly not in Ireland's best interests.

Macha

Biggins wrote: »

Sorry, he annoyed a group of politicans that happen to disagee with him, Klaus meanwhile is saying something (by the way in a supposed free and democratic society!) the Irish public voted for anyway - but is being ignored by the wasters in the Dail.

How is it being ignored by the government?

RedPlanet

There are also allegations that Irish media were barred from interviewing him.
Something about a ring of Gardai around him so media couldn't get near.
Visiting members of the Czech media had access to him at some point however.

Biggins

taconnol wrote: »

How is it being ignored by the government?

If you have to ask that, you haven't been following the legal manoeuvrings in Dublin the last few months, to introduce parts of the treaty/constitution into other areas in non-votable Irish law.

Dear God, I wish some would wake up and keep track of these things!

djpbarry

Biggins wrote: »

If you have to ask that, you haven't been following the legal manoeuvrings in Dublin the last few months, to introduce parts of the treaty/constitution into other areas in non-votable Irish law.

Which parts?

Biggins

djpbarry wrote: »

Which parts?

There is many, and all are currently under legal clarification so they are not finished, thus openly listed for review.
I direct you in short to an article in the Irish times in the meanwhile:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0802/1217368880440.html?via=mr

It has been reported a number of times that Mr Cowan intends through other legal means to bring in the majority contents of Lisbon Treaty by a back door legal process.

So much for our vote the first time!

djpbarry

Biggins wrote: »

I direct you in short to an article in the Irish times in the meanwhile:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0802/1217368880440.html?via=mr

So Stephen Collins' opinion now counts for fact, does it?

Tea drinker

taconnol wrote: »

How is it being ignored by the government?

We voted against Lisbon, however they are IGNORING this and ploughing on with plans to implement it.
I hope that is clear for you now.

Macha

Tea drinker wrote: »

We voted against Lisbon, however they are IGNORING this and ploughing on with plans to implement it.
I hope that is clear for you now.

Sorry, I must have missed that in the newspapers.
Could you link to a story ? thx

Tea drinker

taconnol wrote: »

Sorry, I must have missed that in the newspapers.
Could you link to a story ? thx

No, I can't be bothered.
they have already clearly and publicly stated that intention - you must be on Mars taconnol if you actually believe what you imply.

Biggins

djpbarry wrote: »

So Stephen Collins' opinion now counts for fact, does it?

No but its been stated again and again and again that F.F. intend to pursue an alternative legal recourse to implement the contents of the Lisbon Treaty/European Constitution and have begun doing so.

Do your own homework and research! Others have bothered to keep track of the legalities that are currently under review and not just stuck to reading the headlines and minor text underneath it.

Macha

Tea drinker wrote: »

No, I can't be bothered.
they have already clearly and publicly stated that intention - you must be on Mars taconnol if you actually believe what you imply.

Sorry, it isn't mine, or any other poster's job to back up YOUR claims. Unless you can do so, you can hold onto your speculation and I'll hold onto my facts.

djpbarry

Tea drinker wrote: »

We voted against Lisbon, however they are IGNORING this and ploughing on with plans to implement it.

Are they indeed.

Tea drinker wrote: »

...they have already clearly and publicly stated that intention...

In which case you should have no trouble at all in finding a reference of some sort to back up your claim.

Biggins wrote: »

No but its been stated again and again and again that F.F. intend to pursue an alternative legal recourse to implement the contents of the Lisbon Treaty/European Constitution and have begun doing so.

Reference?

Biggins wrote: »

Do your own homework and research!

It's up to you to back up your own claims.

Biggins

If some are not bothered to keep track of all the released news items and data as and when its released, its not the job of the rest of us to keep a consistent increasing size database just so that some lazy sods can't be bothered to so their own study and maintain a vigilance on these subject areas.

I'm tired posting many links to items. The morons that read them anyway don't believe what they read because they then claim (Quote: "well you would post that wouldn't you") an "independent" didn't post it so it must be biased written, so it is claimed again and again.

If you can't be bothered to keep track of these things, doing your own research will at least cut out out the crap claim that we are only posting one sided links to justify our already done work and arrived at conclusion.

Sheep, dumb Irish sheep is what part of this population is. Too lazy arsed and self-indulged to be bothered to do their own investigations. Always relying on others to do their work!

Macha

Biggins wrote: »

If some are not bothered to keep track of all the released news items and data as and when its released, its not the job of the rest of us to keep a consistent increasing size database just so that some lazy sods can't be bothered to so their own study and maintain a vigilance on these subject areas.

I'm tired posting many links to items. The morons that read them anyway don't believe what they read because they then claim (Quote: "well you would post that wouldn't you") an "independent" didn't post it so it must be biased written, so it is claimed again and again.

If you can't be bothered to keep track of these things, doing your own research will at least cut out out the crap claim that we are only posting one sided links to justify our already done work and arrived at conclusion.

Sheep, dumb Irish sheep is what part of this population is. Too lazy arsed and self-indulged to be bothered to do their own investigations. Always relying on others to do their work!

Careful with the personal insults, Biggins...you lose credibility when you sink to name-calling.

My point is that you cannot provide convincing evidence that the Irish government is ignoring the result of the referendum. And if you cannot provide some, I will continue to believe that they are not ignoring it. It's got nothing to do with laziness on my part.

If you're tired of backing up your assumptions...well that's your problem, not mine.

Biggins

I don't insult those that have the intellect to keep full track of these things, just the group sheep of this country that blindly rely on party leaders and their headlines or news quotes, not bothering to investigate their subsequent actual actions.
(...and I don't insult anyone person on a personal level, except maybe Cowan and co who judging by the latest actions yet again, deserve it!)

I've given evidence many times. Its either ignored or called biased. I've given up in frustration. Let those that are interested subsequently do their own untainted enquiries.

Tea drinker

taconnol wrote: »

Sorry, it isn't mine, or any other poster's job to back up YOUR claims. Unless you can do so, you can hold onto your speculation and I'll hold onto my facts.

I do agree taconnol, but you called me out for not providing facts (a.k.a links) but yet in the same post you provided no substance - you actually said you will "hold onto my facts". Pot and kettle.
I hope they are not secret enough to get you in trouble

sink

Biggins wrote: »

I don't insult those that have the intellect to keep full track of these things, just the group sheep of this country that blindly rely on party leaders and their headlines or news quotes, not bothering to investigate their subsequent actual actions.
(...and I don't insult anyone person on a personal level, except maybe Cowan and co who judging by the latest actions yet again, deserve it!)

I've given evidence many times. Its either ignored or called biased. I've given up in frustration. Let those that are interested subsequently do their own untainted enquiries.

That is fairly specious. You say your evidence has been rejected multiple times by fellow laymen and has been either ignored or disregarded by all mainstream professional journalists (both pro and anti Lisbon). Logic would dictate that as you remain the only one propounding this claim that you are the one who is wrong. I would consider myself well informed on European and Irish political issues reading many news websites and blogs and I have not come across anyone with an ounce of credibility making such a claim.

That said I haven't even seen your evidence and i'm not going to take the time to search through your previous posts as I am fairly certain it would be a waste of my time but I am open to persuasion.

Macha

Tea drinker wrote: »

I do agree taconnol, but you called me out for not providing facts (a.k.a links) but yet in the same post you provided no substance - you actually said you will "hold onto my facts". Pot and kettle.
I hope they are not secret enough to get you in trouble

If you look back at this thread, I was not the initial poster to make a claim - it was Biggins. I asked for proof and he got huffy and said that was my job - to back up his claim.

So I'm not making any claim and therefore, I don't need to provide any proof. I'm asking Biggins, or you if you so wish, to provide proof that the Irish government has ignored the result of the Lisbon referendum. And until that is provided, I will hold onto my current opinion - that the Irish government has not ignored it.

The funny thing is, with all the bickering about proof, somene has YET provided any! I'm still waiting..Really, I thought they taught this kind of stuff in Junior Cert English: make a claim, back it up. Make a claim, back it up.

djpbarry

Biggins wrote: »

If some are not bothered to keep track of all the released news items and data as and when its released, its not the job of the rest of us to keep a consistent increasing size database just so that some lazy sods can't be bothered to so their own study and maintain a vigilance on these subject areas.

It’s your job to back up your claims, that’s pretty much all there is to it. Nobody’s asking anyone else to compile a database. The fact that you make a great big song and dance about being asked to provide a little evidence suggests quite strongly that you don’t have any, Stephen Collin’s opinion aside, which is evidence of nothing other than the fact that Stephen Collins has an opinion.

Biggins wrote: »

I don't insult those that have the intellect to keep full track of these things, just the group sheep of this country that blindly rely on party leaders and their headlines or news quotes, not bothering to investigate their subsequent actual actions.

So you don’t have any evidence to back up your claim that the government is ignoring the outcome of the referendum? That’s what I thought.

Biggins

I've just given up on those that are not willing to listen any way. What's the point?

I've given my reason for no longer posting links. If all you can do is post the same tiring request for links again and again, can I suggest you use your time to a better use and look for your own links? We are NOT doing your work for you. Clearly by attitude, some are not willing to listen anyway.

...meanwhile, the rest of us will be out having to vote at the yet again next re-worded referendum that will come next year because the previous one are considered irrelevant!
Its this simple: there will be another referendum coming that wouldn't exist IF the government WAS going along with the mandate the people of Ireland have stated already with their vote!

End of story.

I'm no longer posting in this thread. You DO come across an an intelligent person.
The fact that your reading/answering a political thread alone shows that you care - and should be congratulated for it even if we differ.
If only more folk were the same inquiring nature.

Sadly one (me) eventually comes to a point in time when one concludes that there's no point in wasting more time and effort if all or anything that's posted is ignored and/or others not bother to look into affairs independently besides reading the headlines or summary!

Good luck to all and fight the good fight (peacefully I hope)