Franchise Exhibition RDS 21/22 November

lemeister

Anyone been to this before and was it worth going in your opinion?

I'm going to this just to check it out.

jimmmy

Be careful. Someone I know very well went there 4 years ago, saw a stand and like about 14 other "suckers" from around the country invested a considerable five figure sum and a year or two trying to make his new business a success. None of the 14 or so people succeeded in making a full time industrial type wage out of it, never mind the £100,000 per annum the uk based exhibitor said was easily obtainable and was achieved by their person doing the business in the UK.

The same exhibitor was back at the franchise show in the RDS two years later, selling the business system for a third of the original amount, even though the exhibitor had sold exclusive areas to the 14 poor suckers 2 years previously. The organisers of the RDS franchise show did flip all about it. Be very careful.... the hour at the show could cost you a lot.

Bandara

its crap, full of tyre kickers and loons with ridiculous franchises that are worth nothing

niceirishfella

Hammertime wrote: »

its crap, full of tyre kickers and loons with ridiculous franchises that are worth nothing

+1 - i was never at that one, but got a snap shot of another one. Dog Grooming franchises, dating website franchises, car cleaning franchises, Cafe or sambo bar franchises, yada yada yada - YAWN!:eek:

MB74

niceirishfella wrote: »

+1 - i was never at that one, but got a snap shot of another one. Dog Grooming franchises, dating website franchises, car cleaning franchises, Cafe or sambo bar franchises, yada yada yada - YAWN!:eek:

+1 too. Maybe worth a visit just to look around but don't bring your wallet or a pen to sign anything. You might find it useful to get an idea or two from it.

Darragh29

I hope this doesn't fuffle feathers here but I always looked at franchising as entrepreneurship for dummies. It's paying for a boil in the bag solution. I think the best part of the challenge is coming up with your own way of doing things and solving problems. I'd feel boxed in by a franchise...

Darragh29

Darragh29 wrote: »

I hope this doesn't fuffle feathers here but I always looked at franchising as entrepreneurship for dummies. It's paying for a boil in the bag solution. I think the best part of the challenge is coming up with your own way of doing things and solving problems. I'd feel boxed in by a franchise...

Me too to be honest.

niceirishfella

Darragh29 wrote: »

I hope this doesn't fuffle feathers here but I always looked at franchising as entrepreneurship for dummies. It's paying for a boil in the bag solution. I think the best part of the challenge is coming up with your own way of doing things and solving problems. I'd feel boxed in by a franchise...

+1

*now, NIF makes mental note to write a book called "franchising for dummies" -could be a best seller*:D

spadder

apart from food franchises, i think Ireland is too small for the model to work.

jimmmy

MB74 wrote: »

+1 too. Maybe worth a visit just to look around but don't bring your wallet or a pen to sign anything. You might find it useful to get an idea or two from it.

Even then be careful. It so happened one particular exhibitor I know of there a few years ago had a unique type of machine ( which they claimed to have invented and patented , and which they claimed was highly lucrative for an operator to operate, and which was not in Ireland at the time ) which to sold at very high prices to unsuspecting buyers in Ireland, only for the price to be a fraction a year or two later + lots of similar units available from a few other firms. Buyer beware ...even of new concepts / ideas / machinery.

blue4ever

niceirishfella wrote: »

+1

*now, NIF makes mental note to write a book called "franchising for dummies" -could be a best seller*:D

oh no!

niceirishfella

blue4ever wrote: »

oh no!

Damn!!!!:D:D:pac:

Great minds think alike tho'

Culchie

Darragh29 wrote: »

I hope this doesn't fuffle feathers here but I always looked at franchising as entrepreneurship for dummies. It's paying for a boil in the bag solution. I think the best part of the challenge is coming up with your own way of doing things and solving problems. I'd feel boxed in by a franchise...

Hmmmmmm....I'm gonna try and give my best shot at this.

I think there is a little elitism about the term/word 'entrepreneur'. People sometimes like to evaluate themselves as a 'niche market'.... as being something special. They sometimes don't put the same effort into their own self assessment and determining whether their business idea is viable in the first place.

Many 'entrepreneurs' can't tie their own shoelaces, they may have the ideas, the concepts, the drive, but at the end of the day may be poor managers of money, poor 'people persons', poor managers etc..... a good business requires different dynamics at different times.
The people I often see 'dissing' franchises are frequently fresh out of the blocks, testosterone driven young whippersnappers who think the world is their oyster, and that their idea is the best idea since sliced bread.

Well I was once one of those as well. .....but remember there's very little wrong with sliced bread. And the best bread has been around the place a while.


Yes there are poor franchises (my guesstimate would be 75% or so).... however there are just as many non-franchised businesses that would be just as bad. Just the word 'Franchise' put people on the back foot the same way 'Timeshare' did in the past....... the basic sound business principal has fallen victim to the shady operators that occupied the space.
But like any investment, it's the responsibility of any prospective franchisee to check out the franchise and the business it is promoting to see whether it is a viable project or not.

If an estate agent told you that a house was in a great area, with lovely neighbours and was an absolute bargain.....would you take him at his word? I think you'd do your homework on the house/location/neighbourhood/commuter lines/local amenities etc.... wouldn't you?

You need to check out the market, check out the franchisor, and above all else check out the other franchisees and get their feedback. You are supposed to have some sort of business acumen....You are not a dummy.


A good franchise provides instant technical, marketing, sales, accounts support. If you are stuck, they should be there to help you.

A good franchise should give you brand prescence and percieved credibility right from the start.

As a franchisee I know myself, I 'hate' writing out my cheque made payable to the franchisor....but the fact of the matter is that what took a few months to build into a bloody good business would have taken so much longer 'going it alone'. Hand on heart, I couldn't fault my franchisor....they have delivered on every obligation/issue that has been requested assistance on. I wouldn't have 30% of the business I have at the moment without my franchise brand.

A good franchise will not 'box you in' ..... it gives you a branding/operational framework that you should operate within....it puts the ball in your hand..... you still need to take the ball and run with it to reach the end line.
It should be sending out the message "This is the approach we recommend".

Jimmy, I've noticed you mentioned on several occasions about your friend that was unsuccessful with his business. I'm sorry to hear that but...
Franchises are like any other business, there are good ones and there are bad ones.....there are good franchisees and there are also bad ones.

Some people just shouldn't run a business at all.


"I think the best part of the challenge is coming up with your own way of doing things and solving problems. I'd feel boxed in by a franchise... "

This can be an incredible long and expensive learning curve, sometimes there is no need to re-invent the wheel.


Just to be clear, I'm not 'championing' franchises .... each business is different, each franchisor is different, each franchisee is different......but that can be said of any business.

MB74

niceirishfella wrote: »

+1

*now, NIF makes mental note to write a book called "franchising for dummies" -could be a best seller*:D

If it's a success here maybe you could sell the book writing franchise elsewhere:D:D:D

jimmmy

Culchie wrote: »

Yes there are poor franchises (my guesstimate would be 75% or so).

Thats one thing you are probably right on.....its probably fair to say at least 75% of the exhibitors at the franchise show in the RDS , Dublin say 3 or 4 years ago - even during the days of the celtic tiger boom - did not succeed in developing successful franchisees, even though many people invested hard earned ( and/or borrowed ) money. Most ordinary people would never even have heard of some of the exhibitors at " the Franchise and Business Opportunities show", but the salespeople there can be very persausive and convincing.

It was the "franchisees / investors in the business opportunities" who were the real losers at the end of the day, having wasted money and years of their lives.

Culchie wrote: »

... however there are just as many non-franchised businesses that would be just as bad.

I do not know about that. 75% of non-franchised businesses do not act in that way, trying to entice money from people like that at the "Franchise and Business Opportunities show"..

Darragh29

Was at this today, didn't know whether to laugh or cry, myself and my mate just grabbed a coffee and sat gawking at the cracker of a mot at the Aoountants/Auditors stall!

Very poor set up I thought, my mate was at it last year and said it was completely different then, the venue a hive of activity last year and much much bigger event, he couldn't get over the difference between last year and this year...

jimmmy

Darragh29 wrote: »

Very poor set up I thought, my mate was at it last year and said it was completely different then, the venue a hive of activity last year and much much bigger event, he couldn't get over the difference between last year and this year...

Was there any interesting ideas at this years exhibition / did any stands catch your eye from a business point of view ? I visited it a few times in previous years , I would not bother going back this year but was just wondering. I am sure there must be a few franchises that work in this small country , and some reputable franchisors.

Darragh29

jimmmy wrote: »

Was there any interesting ideas at this years exhibition / did any stands catch your eye from a business point of view ? I visited it a few times in previous years , I would not bother going back this year but was just wondering. I am sure there must be a few franchises that work in this small country , and some reputable franchisors.

Nothing there that caught my eye at all Jimmy, except the cracker of a bird at the accountants/auditors stall beside the catering area! :D:D

I'd say this year it will lose money because there was a definite absence of activity at it. I noticed that when I went on the website, I couldn't book tickets for the event online or even check the price of tickets at the door,on the website even though on the event website, there was a link for this very information regarding tickets...

http://www.franinfo.ie/

P*ss poor organisation for this to happen in 2008 I thought. I didn't cop this but my mate mentioned that the event closed at 6PM yesterday and 5PM today!?!?!

What about folks working Friday until 6PM or working on Saturday!?!?!

As for exhibitors, there were the usual suspects, O' Briens, Cafe Bar Deli, Pizza Hut... There was nothing that seemed a bit "out there" or that represented a new idea, maybe with the exception of a franchise for zip repair and clothing alteration...

Darragh29

jimmmy wrote: »

Thats one thing you are probably right on.....its probably fair to say at least 75% of the exhibitors at the franchise show in the RDS , Dublin say 3 or 4 years ago - even during the days of the celtic tiger boom - did not succeed in developing successful franchisees, even though many people invested hard earned ( and/or borrowed ) money. Most ordinary people would never even have heard of some of the exhibitors at " the Franchise and Business Opportunities show", but the salespeople there can be very persausive and convincing.

It was the "franchisees / investors in the business opportunities" who were the real losers at the end of the day, having wasted money and years of their lives.

Well business start up to success is a difficult thing. I can see what Jimmy is pointing at there. I noticed a few very sharp operators at stalls yesterday, from having very quick converstaions with some of them, I could see them doing a good job of selling something to you if you were interested.

Like anything else, I think its a case of buyer beware, I know from my own experience, I made mistakes when it came to purchasing for my business in the past, I discussed this at length on other threads on this forum and all I can say is that this is what ultimately makes you successful, is your ability to learn from mistakes and to get up and dust yourself off and to quickly get back up in the saddle. If you buy a franchise, I think you are making a purchasing decision, and like any business, you need to make sure that the income will give a return on the investment within a timeframe that you consider to be acceptable to you.

I think if you bought a franchise and it hasn't worked out for you and you are depressed about it and feel conned, etc, etc, and a year has passed and you are still angry about it, then I think maybe you shouldn't have started up a business in the first place, and I don't say this in a smart way, it's just that a franchise is not a risk free venture and this needs to be understood. If you are starting up a business, you are in for one hell of a ride, whether it be franchised or non franchised!

I think many businesses fail because sales have not been understood in the context of an effective marketing campaign. It is very easy to get caught up in a product or service and think that it is the next big thing, the problem is that usually for the first year, it is harder to get the work than it is to do the work, and this is not unique to independent start ups or franchise businesses, it's just the way it is...

jimmmy

Darragh29 wrote: »

I think if you bought a franchise and it hasn't worked out for you and you are depressed about it and feel conned, etc, etc, and a year has passed and you are still angry about it, then I think maybe you shouldn't have started up a business in the first place,

Sometimes that may be true, but on the other hand we all make mistakes. Many successful business people - esp. in the States etc - have tried different ideas / businesses before they hit on a really successful one. I think if someone has bought a franchise or invested in a business opportunity ( as not all exhibitors were actually franchisors legally speaking, at least at the show 2 or 4 years ago ) and it has not worked out over the last few years, best thing to do is get rid of it and do something else. Some new ideas / inventions can seem to be attractive, if they are in an area that can have no possible track record.
The reality of all 14 people failing ( who invested 5 figure sums in one particular exhibitor there a few years ago ) , inc some previously quite successful and experienced people, does not mean all 14 should never have been in any business. At least one exhibitor ( foreign based ) at the show some years ago would have been sued if they were Irish based, but legal advice got on the part of the 14 was that they would be throwing good money after bad. Buyer beware indeed.

Darragh29

jimmmy wrote: »

Sometimes that may be true, but on the other hand we all make mistakes. Many successful business people - esp. in the States etc - have tried different ideas / businesses before they hit on a really successful one. I think if someone has bought a franchise or invested in a business opportunity ( as not all exhibitors were actually franchisors legally speaking, at least at the show 2 or 4 years ago ) and it has not worked out over the last few years, best thing to do is get rid of it and do something else. Some new ideas / inventions can seem to be attractive, if they are in an area that can have no possible track record.
The reality of all 14 people failing ( who invested 5 figure sums in one particular exhibitor there a few years ago ) , inc some previously quite successful and experienced people, does not mean all 14 should never have been in any business. At least one exhibitor ( foreign based ) at the show some years ago would have been sued if they were Irish based, but legal advice got on the part of the 14 was that they would be throwing good money after bad. Buyer beware indeed.

Yeah I see where you are coming from Jimmy. There is a stigma associated with business failure in this country. I failed on the first occasion and its only now that I've started being successful...

I'm not saying that people should or should not start up businesses, but I think there is a thought sometimes that if you take on a franchise, that you are buying a proven model or in some way, the hard work is done for you.

For 14 people to have invested in a business model and bought 14 franchises and then for 14 to have lost their money and failed, you'd have to seriously question what the business model was about. I know when I started out, I made mistakes that cost me my business. I wouldn't make those mistakes again, but business is tough and you only learn when you get your fingers burnt sometimes.

I think there is a very important difference between entrepreneurs and franchisees. An entrepreneur has a vision or an idea and takes that vision from concept to reality and ultimately makes profit from the bringing to life of that idea. Sometimes the project will fail, but utimately by repeating the process of exploring ideas and developing them into viable business models, with the benefit of experience, ultimately I think enterpreneurs become sucessful by this process of learning and developing.

Someone who buys a franchise is really buying into someone elses idea. I'm not saying that someone who buys a franchise is empty of ideas, but there is that key difference between the two. Franchising allows people who might not have the vision or the idea, to work for themselves, but if the franchise operation doesn't work out, then the cause of the problem might not be so clear, like was it the idea/concept, or the way the model was executed or implemented by the person who bought the franchise??? In the case of an entrepreneur, the answer is always clear, you have failed.

niceirishfella

Darragh29 wrote: »

I think there is a very important difference between entrepreneurs and franchisees. An entrepreneur has a vision or an idea and takes that vision from concept to reality and ultimately makes profit from the bringing to life of that idea. Sometimes the project will fail, but utimately by repeating the process of exploring ideas and developing them into viable business models, with the benefit of experience, ultimately I think enterpreneurs become sucessful by this process of learning and developing.
Someone who buys a franchise is really buying into someone elses idea. I'm not saying that someone who buys a franchise is empty of ideas, but there is that key difference between the two. Franchising allows people who might not have the vision or the idea, to work for themselves, but if the franchise operation doesn't work out, then the cause of the problem might not be so clear, like was it the idea/concept, or the way the model was executed or implemented by the person who bought the franchise??? In the case of an entrepreneur, the answer is always clear, you have failed.

I agree with most of this. I think someone who buys into a franchise is and has to be a good applicator.
The have to be able to apply themselves to the task in hand to get their franchise business accross the line.
I think being an entrepreneur is different........very different indeed.

elgransenor

The previous 2 posters are correct in identifying the difference between an entrepreneur and a franchisee.
The entrepreneur is generating ideas and prepared to fly with them.
But remember the name of the game is making money and to do that you do not need to invent a better mousetrap.......if you want to,fine,go ahead be an entrepreneur.
But anyone reading this is far more likely to make their fortune from great execution of existing ideas than brilliant new idea(s).
So if you want to be an entrepreneur and get your rocks off at that...great.
But if you want to make money don't turn your nose up at tried and tested formulas that have been proven to work in other markets and say 'oh, but I am an enrepreneur'
The guys that got their hands on the first McDonalds,BurgerKing and VW/Audi/Merc frannchises are laughing all the way to the bank.:cool:

Darragh29

elgransenor wrote: »

The previous 2 posters are correct in identifying the difference between an entrepreneur and a franchisee.
The entrepreneur is generating ideas and prepared to fly with them.
But remember the name of the game is making money and to do that you do not need to invent a better mousetrap.......if you want to,fine,go ahead be an entrepreneur.
But anyone reading this is far more likely to make their fortune from great execution of existing ideas than brilliant new idea(s).
So if you want to be an entrepreneur and get your rocks off at that...great.
But if you want to make money don't turn your nose up at tried and tested formulas that have been proven to work in other markets and say 'oh, but I am an enrepreneur'
The guys that got their hands on the first McDonalds,BurgerKing and VW/Audi/Merc frannchises are laughing all the way to the bank.:cool:

This is where it gets interesting. Anyone selling a franchise will tell you that the product is tried and tested, etc. I know one VW franchise owner who can't sleep at night because the banks are circling like vultures around his business, but that's another story...

The franchises I saw at the franchise exhibition with one or two notable exceptions, I wouldn't say are successful, in fact I hadn't seen them anywhere before I saw their stall at the exhibition. That's not to say they won't be successful in the future, but I wouldn't be putting my money into them.

elgransenor

Darragh29 wrote: »

This is where it gets interesting. Anyone selling a franchise will tell you that the product is tried and tested, etc. I know one VW franchise owner who can't sleep at night because the banks are circling like vultures around his business, but that's another story...

The franchises I saw at the franchise exhibition with one or two notable exceptions, I wouldn't say are successful, in fact I hadn't seen them anywhere before I saw their stall at the exhibition. That's not to say they won't be successful in the future, but I wouldn't be putting my money into them.

VW obtained permission from the competition authorities in Europe in Sept. to buy back VW Ireland from the O'Flaherty group who have made a fortune from having the exclusive import rights since the second world war.

Wealthiest men in Ireland?
Sean Quinn...cement,glass,hotels,insurance........no blinding innovation there.
Smurfit.........cardboard boxes....no brilliant entrepreneurial ideas
Tony Reilly........newspapers,advertising.....traditional industry
Michael O'Leary......low cost flights having copied Herb X in South west airlines in Texas....its about execution,not brilliant ideas.
Who invented cheap flights this side of the Atlantic? Freddie Laker who went wallop.
The guy who invented the spreadsheet died a homeless bum in San Francisco.
But plenty of other guys have made a fortune from his invention.
Some franchises are pure rubbish,some are good but my point is simply that if you want to make moolah you do not need a brilliant idea/invention.
And for some people franchises are the way to go but must do so bringing good analytical skills to bear and a healthy dose of scepticism/cynicism.