The different "our father"

I was thinking of today being Armistice Day, and wanted to say a short prayer for all those lost. I considered the "Our Father" and I'll be heading for a memorial to stand and remember, if only for a short while. As a Catholic, is there anything actually set in writ that says it's wrong to add on to the end "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen."? When I first heard it, I thought of it as a Protestant "thing". It being a true statement, I thought it may be appropriate given that many of the Irishmen killed were of the Protestant creed.

Just want to make sure I don't have people looking slanty-eyed at me for blaspheming or something.....

I'm off for a walk to these gardens.

Slav

The clause is present in Mattew 6 but is missing from Luke 11 so generally there is nothing specifically Protestant here. Moreover, the "Our Father" with the doxology at the end is a part of the Roman Catholic Mass (if I'm not mistaken) thought it's kind of taken apart by the priest saying "Deliver us, Lord, from every evil and protect us..." prayer before the doxology.

On the other hand in Orthodox Liturgy it's the priest who says "For thine is the kingdom..." hence the tradition for the laity to use the short version even outside of Liturgy.

LordSutch

Very nice post SeaSlacker, and very apt sentiments 'with the day thats in it' (Armistice Day & all that).

As an Anglican myself, it has always amused me when visiting the odd RC Church once in a blue moon, only to have the last line of the 'Our Father' inexplicably cut off, just as I take a breath to say "for thine is th

Its been especially funny when attending two 'Mixed Marriages' in recent years, wherby the Protestant side of the Congregation will carry on & include the last line, & the other side will abruptly 'Stop' before saying "For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen."

The last line is for sure included in our 'Church of Ireland' book of Common Prayer, so presumably the last line is missing in the equivalent Roman Catholic prayer book, for whatever reason ?

Thats presuming the RC congregation have prayer books?

LordSutch

Anyone else got any theories? or ever wondered why the RC Church leaves out the last sentence?

Puck

Might I throw a match in the tank and say... because it's not in the original Scripture and well done to them for not adding to Scripture... in this case.

Slav

Puck wrote: »

because it's not in the original Scripture and well done to them for not adding to Scripture... in this case.

Are you suggesting that Matthew 6:13 is an alteration/addition to the original text?

toiletduck

Heh, never heard that last line before

We had a religion teacher back in secondary school who told us to say "your" instead of "Thy". Said it was to have a more personal relationship with God.

asdasd

Is leatsa an riocht, and cumhact agus an gloire.

= Proddie Gaelgoir.

oobydooby

toiletduck wrote: »

We had a religion teacher back in secondary school who told us to say "your" instead of "Thy". Said it was to have a more personal relationship with God.

Ironically people frequently think the 'thou' form is a mark of respect due to its rare usage when it's actually the familiar form of the more formal 'you'.

'Thou' was used between lovers or in prayer, indicating the personal nature of the relationship with God.

Most languages have formal/informal versions of addressing people. English exclusively uses the formal nowadays but curiously Irish Gaelic is said to have no known formal version (tú being familiar).

Fanny Cradock

asdasd wrote: »

Is leatsa an riocht, and cumhact agus an gloire.

= Proddie Gaelgoir.

What does that mean?

Puck

Slav wrote: »

Are you suggesting that Matthew 6:13 is an alteration/addition to the original text?

Oh Matthew 6:13 is there all right, it just ends with "... deliver us from evil.". The oldest Greek manuscripts lack the line "For yours is the kingdom, the power and the glory, forever. Amen". Nice line that it is, it just doesn't appear to be part of the Lord's prayer.

asdasd

What does that mean?

As you prob. know it is ' Yours is the Kingdom, the power and the glory" in irish. Would only have been historically used by Irish speaking protestants.

oobydooby

SeaSlacker wrote: »

I was thinking of today being Armistice Day, and wanted to say a short prayer for all those lost. I considered the "Our Father" and I'll be heading for a memorial to stand and remember, if only for a short while. As a Catholic, is there anything actually set in writ that says it's wrong to add on to the end "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen."? When I first heard it, I thought of it as a Protestant "thing". It being a true statement, I thought it may be appropriate given that many of the Irishmen killed were of the Protestant creed.

I hope the memorial was fitting. As for your question, it confused me a little bit. It's my understanding that Catholics do include this line but that it's separated from the body of the Our Father by a short prayer by the priest.
Also, I think most Irishmen killed in the great war were actually Catholics. Fighting for 'little Catholic Belgium' and all that... However it's a lovely idea to unite in honouring brave men of all denominations (and none) whose sacrifices helped us enjoy our peace.

Just want to make sure I don't have people looking slanty-eyed at me for blaspheming or something.....

:eek: You must have met some mean people in your time! How sad that we all feel that we still have to tiptoe around these issues.. even when your motivations are so benign.

asdasd

Dara O;Brian has a good piece on how the differences in the our father can have humourous results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0thRUS1wUw&feature=related

about 3:36 in

LordSutch

That Dara O'Brien piece is hilarious, and Very very true, as I have also testified to in (Post#3)

(3min 40 > onwards) "For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen."

Now you can sit