Garage coversion - PP or not?

muffler

Mellor wrote: »

You will need planning for this.

RKQ wrote: »

You will need planning permission to change the garage doors to a window.

Why?

RKQ

muffler wrote: »

Why?

There was confusion when this was first implemented. Minister Dempsey was trying to "free" up Planners time spent on "standard" small domestic alterations and extensions. (His heart was in the right place!)

The idea was that conversion of domestic garages to habital rooms would be classed exempted development if the garage was attached. (Lots of suburban houses had attached garages, especially in 70's and 80's designed suburbia)
But the Planners pointed out that changing a garage door on a front elevation would still require permission as it was a change to a Front elevation....

muffler

RKQ wrote: »

There was confusion when this was first implemented. Minister Dempsey was trying to "free" up Planners time spent on "standard" small domestic alterations and extensions. (His heart was in the right place!)

The idea was that conversion of domestic garages to habital rooms would be classed exempted development if the garage was attached. (Lots of suburban houses had attached garages, especially in 70's and 80's designed suburbia)
But the Planners pointed out that changing a garage door on a front elevation would still require permission as it was a change to a Front elevation....

It never made much sense to me where a garage could be converted and be exempt while altering the external facade of a house was not exempt.

Anyhow in this instance the OP has indicated that the garage is attached to the house and accordingly it's conversion will be exempt subject to the 40m2 requirement. Maybe I've missed something but I dont see any change in the regs to say otherwise.

Mellor

The conversion itself would be exempt, but removing the garage door and putting in a window may not be. The regs only say conversion, its not clear it the external modification is allowed. In my opinion, it was might of been intended to be allowed but wasn't made clear enough. And depending of which PA is involved, they may view it either way. Which is why, to be safe, I take the requires planning viewpoint*

Thats said, I doubt there would be much of a problem with it


edit:
*Has anyone ever came accross a planning application were the PA allowed a reduced set to be submitted. In this case, to disregard the first floor plan, and any unchanged elevations

muffler

Just going to move a post or two to this thread.

muffler

Whats the story then lads about the door/window issue in your neck of the woods then? The regs clearly state that the conversion of your garage is exempt but I dont think they expect you to have a roller door in the bedroom

I have certified quite a few of these in the past but Mellor and RKQ now both say that replacing the door with a window needs permission although I see Mellor has done a little bit of subtle editing

What Im going to do is fire this into a new thread as the present one has gone off the rails a bit. Probably give it the kiss of death by moving it

Poor Uncle Tom

Replacing the garage doors with a window goes hand in hand with the conversion from garage to habitable room and I have certed a couple like this also. I can remember this debate in the planning offices of Waterford County Council and a clerical officer laughing the planners out of it for suggesting you could have a habitable room with garage doors in it.

sinnerboy

I would certify on the basis that the exempt development regulations permit the conversion . And as far as the roller door change to window
- from the 2000 act Section 4 . 1


(h) development consisting of the carrying out of works for the maintenance, improvement or other alteration of any structure, being works which affect only the interior of the structure or which do not materially affect the external appearance of the structure so as to render the appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure or of neighbouring structures;

I know the regs seemed composed to frustrate it but - got to be practical

muffler

sinnerboy wrote: »

- from the 2000 act Section 4 . 1


(h) development consisting of the carrying out of works for the maintenance, improvement or other alteration of any structure, being works which affect only the interior of the structure or which do not materially affect the external appearance of the structure so as to render the appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure or of neighbouring structures;

But this is not the section relating to exempted development though.

sinnerboy

? ' Tis

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0030/sec0004.html#parti-sec4

muffler

sinnerboy wrote: »

? ' Tis

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0030/sec0004.html#parti-sec4

Yes i take your point on that and "section" may not have been my right choice of word.

What I was referring to was Class 1 of Article 6

The extension of a house, by the
construction or erection of an extension
(including a conservatory) to the rear of
the house or by the conversion for use as
part of the house of any garage, store,
shed or other similar structure attached to
the rear or to the side of the house.

. As you are aware the regs proceed to outline certain restrictions or conditions but there is no mention of "works affecting the external appearance of the building".

Anyhow the local PA are happy that this type of development is exempt and I am happy to follow suit.

RKQ

I remember this debate after the Exemption rules were changed. Requiring permission for the window to replace a garage door, goes against the ethos of the Act but it did cause confusion.
I understand the confusion - its totally silly - but its down to how you look at it.

Planners in this part of the world were adament that the changing of a garage door to a window requires permission (just like building a large bay window on the front elevation would require it!)
As would rooflights to the front elevation. Even a Sat dish on the front wall technically requires permission - even though most people have them installed.

I doubt you would get in trouble certifying it but then if you met a "sticky" Solicitor or worse still a neighbour complained to the Council - then everyone might duck for cover and you're left in the ****.

Not really worth it. :eek:

Mellor

I've only ever done garage conversion PP. And that required PP as it involved an additional storey. Another that I was intending to do drawings for, was scraped as I clients didn't want to go for planning and when they spoke to the planners they were told it was needed. Alot of it would come down to the planners opinion.

Mellor

Clarity found
Ok, so just as I posted the above, I appear to have found a bit of clarity on the matter. When converting a garage;

• Installing a window does not require planning, as long as the window is a reasonable match for the existing house.
• If a window and door unit (including french windows imo), is installed, it is likely to require planning as it would constitute an alteration to the character of th building.
• More complex ideas may require planning, the best option is to get a declaration of ecemption from the council.
• The change of a garage flat roof to a pitched slated or tiled roof is also exempt. As long as the finish matches the main house and that it does not exceed 4m in height.

RKQ

Thats interesting Mellor, where did you find it?
I'd agree that "More complex ideas may require planning, the best option is to get a declaration of exemption from the council".

Mellor

From the SDCC's planning FAQ section. Its been added to recently, and now includes the usual grey area such as "velux to the rear/side". While its established that it is exempt by most PAs, was hard to find in print (not in the regs). At least now we have a source is challanged.