Triathlon (IM) Coaching?

Izoard

Considering the move up to an IM in '09, and thus far have survived with a very unscientific approach to training for tri/ marathon.

Any suggestions/ recommendations for a coach?

Long'n'slow

Try www.coachjohnnewsom.com
He and a guy Bevan Eyles broadcast a great Iron Distance podcast IMTalk (formerly Ironmantalk). I used him for the leadup to my first IM and found him great.

tunney

I've worked with Rich Brady (current Irish IM record holder) for the last four or so years. Rich has done wonders for me. Great guy, regularly in Ireland. Really knows his stuff - highly recommend him. www.tri-monkey.co.uk

RICHIE-RICH

You could also go the self couching route - Get one of the better Iron books:
Don Fink - Be IronFit
Friel and Byrn - Going Long

These two seem to be thebest reviewed, and tried and tested books.

From reading them both, i prefer the Fink one, as it is an easier read.

Both have different programs - getting round; improving; qualifying for Kona.

The experience of many triathletes, is that a book is fine for one or two, but to get better and have a more structured and focused program you can get a coach.

Izoard

Cheers..I have Fink's book....good read, but I think I need a kick in the ar$e to move from "swim/bike/run for as long as time allows", to more effective HRM and plan based training.

Rich Brady looks good..any Dublin based coaches out there?

tunney

Izoard wrote: »

Cheers..I have Fink's book....good read, but I think I need a kick in the ar$e to move from "swim/bike/run for as long as time allows", to more effective HRM and plan based training.

Rich Brady looks good..any Dublin based coaches out there?

Peter Kerns does coaching in Dublin. Nice guy, coaches Liam Dolan amongst others. Got a great work ethic, German

He is very honest and tells it like it is, even at my lightest this year he was telling me "Dave Tummy, you need to lose so weight". (5,10 and 149lbs)

He is absolutely great at races and gives great support and advice to everyone he knows, he popped up out of nowhere in Lisbon Half Ironman this year and pushed me to run 1:20 off the bike.

tunney

Izoard wrote: »

Cheers..I have Fink's book....good read, but I think I need a kick in the ar$e to move from "swim/bike/run for as long as time allows", to more effective HRM and plan based training.

Rich Brady looks good..any Dublin based coaches out there?

Problem is I could count on one hand the number of decent triathlon coaches in the Republic. There really are only 2-3 imho.

Izoard

Jeez, 5' 10 & 149lbs? This coach will have a field day with me:)
I'd better get the diet sorted out before I start wasting his time (and my money)...

tunney

Izoard wrote: »

Jeez, 5' 10 & 149lbs? This coach will have a field day with me:)
I'd better get the diet sorted out before I start wasting his time (and my money)...

No he won't. Sorry if I portraited Peter in the wrong light. What I was trying to say was that if something needs to be said it will be said. Many posters on this board have previously expressed a dislike for upfront, to the point comments.

Its not wasting time nor money, its a good investment, the best really. Better than wheels, frames or anything like that. He will have nutritional advice and good training programmes tailored to you.

Peter is an great coach, a good motivator and gets results. He just won't lie to you

His site is http://www.pb-coaching.com/

I'd highly recommend giving him a bell.

Izoard

Cheers tunney, I'll give him a bell.

BTW, I presume that is your blog on the Phoenix site , http://phoenixtriclub.com/blogs/tunney/?p=5 for IM Austria?

Good luck with it and I'm sure there are a few on this forum who'll be tracking it.

tunney

Izoard wrote: »

Cheers tunney, I'll give him a bell.

BTW, I presume that is your blog on the Phoenix site , http://phoenixtriclub.com/blogs/tunney/?p=5 for IM Austria?

Good luck with it and I'm sure there are a few on this forum who'll be tracking it.

Emmmm only put that up yesterday, didn't think anyone knew about it. Still undecided as to whether to keep it or not!

griffin100

Emmmm only put that up yesterday, didn't think anyone knew about it. Still undecided as to whether to keep it or not!

Keep it up. I find that these blogs make really interesting reading if written well (as I'm sure your's will be) and they tend to motivate me personnally to get off my ass and do more training.

Problem is I could count on one hand the number of decent triathlon coaches in the Republic. There really are only 2-3 imho.

How expensive generally is it to have a coach. I assume that a monthy fee is paid for a training plan and regular advice and plan updates or am I wrong? Is it that flexible?

tunney

griffin100 wrote: »

How expensive generally is it to have a coach. I assume that a monthy fee is paid for a training plan and regular advice and plan updates or am I wrong? Is it that flexible?

The cost of a coach depends on the coach and the region you are in and the level of service you get.

In the States and in Oz a top notch coach can cost the earth.
In the UK and Ireland top notch coaches are more affordable.

Obviously some coaches are better than others and some are more experienced. This affects price.

A key thing to consider when considering a coach is how many athletes they have on their books. Alot of coaches pack'em'high and shoot the same generic programmes out to athletes. They can still charge as much as a coach that does a more personal and detailed approach. I know of a few firms that go with this approach in the UK. Yeah they are good programmes but they are not *your* programmes.

The level of service you can get varies from:
* Programmes on a weekly basis
* Programmes on a monthly basis
* Programmes on a phase basis

The more often you get the programmes the more reactive the coaching is to your progress and to any issues that might come up. Its also more expensive.

I know some guys that have had good results working on monthly programmes with coaches. Personally I get my programmes on a weekly basis and I talk to my coach at least every second day. My relationship with my coach means that my programmes and training are very flexible. If something comes up it can be dealt with. That being said I do my best to do what I'm told as I'm told - much to the annoyance of my training partners. "Are you doing X race?" "I'll ask Rich", "What about Y?" "I'll ask Rich" etc etc.

To me the most important thing when working with a coach is trust. If you don't trust the coach enough to follow completely and to the letter the sessions and programmes they prescribe then there is no point in working with that coach.

Another thing is that working with a coach isn't a quick win. It won't transform you overnight into a different athlete. However the gains add up and you will, if you coach is good, find yourself a different athlete over a year or two. I know I have.

IMHO if you are committed to the sport and want to get fast and strong then a good, experienced, quality coach that will be a personal service is the best possible investment.

Bambaata

thanks for the detail Tunney! Sounds like i need to get some €€ together and get some coaching. Unfortunately wont be able fior a while as the purchase of the new bike has broke me for now

griffin100

Cheers for such a detailed response Tunney. Lots of food for thought. I'm not likely to get into the sport as seriously as you and some others here and winning races is not a goal but I do think that I could benefit from some tailored advice to improve my performance. I have some personal goals relating to races completed and pb's to achieve and a good coach could help. I'm off to do some reserach......

ronbyrne2005

Just got this email from DCU gym for anyone looking to start training.

DCU sport, New Triathlon Class
Aim:
To Train Participants to a high Standard
in 3 disciplines
Swimming, Cycling and Running

As well as Training critical elements such as core strength, muscular endurance and training through correct technique.

What is needed:
Highly Motivated individuals who are looking for an intense challenge?


Time:
Fridays 7pm
Where:
Fitness centre and Pool

Bambaata

i presume u gotta be a member there for that?

ronbyrne2005

Bambaata wrote: »

i presume u gotta be a member there for that?

Yeah free for members but maybe non members can pay per class.

trihard

On the coaching topic, i think there are three fundamental things that you need to get right for it (imho and based on my IM experience last year): -

1. Diet
2. Make the time for it (training that is)
3. Structured Calendar .... and this is waht the coach will give you. There are people that have coached themselves to wonderful effect and there is alot of information available at the various triathlon clubs in Ireland to give information on this. However, with point 1 and 2 in palce, 3 is a waste of time

Personally, i would really suggest is to get a group together that are on the IM track for 09 and then see if a coach is needed.

My 2cents!

tunney

trihard wrote: »

On the coaching topic, i think there are three fundamental things that you need to get right for it (imho and based on my IM experience last year): -

1. Diet
2. Make the time for it (training that is)
3. Structured Calendar .... and this is waht the coach will give you. There are people that have coached themselves to wonderful effect and there is alot of information available at the various triathlon clubs in Ireland to give information on this. However, with point 1 and 2 in palce, 3 is a waste of time

Personally, i would really suggest is to get a group together that are on the IM track for 09 and then see if a coach is needed.

My 2cents!

Oh god not a virtual Board Triathlon Club. Please no.

trihard

A big NO to that Mr Tunney!

Izoard

Anywhere I could sign up for a virtual IM? Second Life?

tunney, had a good chat with Peter K, so will definitely stick the toe in the water there...

thirtyfoot

Jaysus, think I'm in the wrong sport! How much do triathlon coaches in Ireland charge? Any athletics coaches I know in Ireland charge diddly squat and some of those will be coaching olympians, top juniors in Europe etc etc and the only reward they'll get might be a present from the group at xmas or a mention in some article in the papers:D. Granted some will make money from working in the money sports like GAA, football, rugby but athletics will be a labour of love and for free (wouldn't be a market anyway for it). Do many triathletes in Ireland pay their coaches? How do the clubs work, do they pay their coaches?

jollybean

check your coach is a genuine coach before you commit. there are a few out there holding themselves out as tri coaches who haven't a clue. the names mentioned so far here tho are all good.

Literally a fake coach will charge you for ****e information, which will rob you of a good performance as well as your cash....beware. check their sporting background and qualifications, compare it to others and be wise.

tunney

Tingle wrote: »

Jaysus, think I'm in the wrong sport! How much do triathlon coaches in Ireland charge? Any athletics coaches I know in Ireland charge diddly squat and some of those will be coaching olympians, top juniors in Europe etc etc and the only reward they'll get might be a present from the group at xmas or a mention in some article in the papers:D. Granted some will make money from working in the money sports like GAA, football, rugby but athletics will be a labour of love and for free (wouldn't be a market anyway for it). Do many triathletes in Ireland pay their coaches? How do the clubs work, do they pay their coaches?

The coaches in Ireland charge different amounts. Obviously I'm not going to use names here but.

*Some of the worst coaches charge the most but they talk the talk and promise the world. Huge amounts are charged to clubs and to athletes.

*Some of the best coaches charge feck all and they are heavily in it for the love of the sport.

The difference between athletics and triathlon is the age profile and socio-economical grouping that triathletes are generally pulled from. In triathlon its almost exclusively a male AB thing, mid 30s-40s. Plenty of cash, no time.

Some clubs pay a fortune for terrible coaching, some pay relatively little for top class coaching. Likewise some individuals pay a reasonable fee for excellent coaching, some pay a fortune for terrible coaching and don't know it.

To put it in perspective in the US some of the top coaches charge $1000 per athlete per month.

thirtyfoot

tunney wrote: »

The difference between athletics and triathlon is the age profile and socio-economical grouping that triathletes are generally pulled from. In triathlon its almost exclusively a male AB thing, mid 30s-40s. Plenty of cash, no time.

Good point, hadn't thought of that.

tri111

tunney wrote: »

The coaches in Ireland charge different amounts. Obviously I'm not going to use names here but.

*Some of the worst coaches charge the most but they talk the talk and promise the world. Huge amounts are charged to clubs and to athletes.

*Some of the best coaches charge feck all and they are heavily in it for the love of the sport.

Apart from Peter Kern, who else in Ireland (Dublin preferably) would you recommend as a quality triathlon coach?

Richard Brady is based in the UK so I can't see that working at all.

tunney

tri111 wrote: »

Apart from Peter Kern, who else in Ireland (Dublin preferably) would you recommend as a quality triathlon coach?

Richard Brady is based in the UK so I can't see that working at all.

Works for quite a few people.

If I wasn't working with Rich I'd work with Peter. If I wasn't able to work with Peter I'd coach myself.

tri111

tunney wrote: »

Works for quite a few people.

I did say there wasn't many coaches.........

So you're saying that there's actually no other triathlon coaches worth checking out (in the Republic or Ireland)?

On the other issue, I'm sure Rich Brady is a very good coach but IMHO I think you really need a coach to be actually with you in person regularly to get full benefit from coaching - I mean surely you need someone looking at your swim technique every week or so to make sure you're not continually using bad technique. How often does Rich Brady get over here, once a month / 2 months? I don't think that would be enough in my opinion.

snack_ie

Another thing to consider is if you are in a club - ask any of the better members for training advice etc etc - I am sure they would be more than happy to help out - and offer invalueable free advice - I know a few in my club who would be more than happy to offer advice!

Bambaata

who are you with snack ie?

tunney

Bambaata wrote: »

who are you with snack ie?

He's with my old club - Belpark. www.belparktriclub.com

snack_ie

Ai, Belpark it is.

Bambaata

cool. just in the process of joining them. was at the swimming session tonight and it just dawned on me it was the first time sine i was 12 that i was at a coaching/training swim session!! unfortunately cant amke the cycle tomorrow though because of work but i hope to get to the majority of the sessions during the coming weeks as well as my own training