Tool, Hidden Things in Music

Dirty Frank

Just reading up on Tool's album lateralus and read that some people think there is a hidden meaning in the album - that the songs and patterns (specifically in the song lateralus) are mathematically based. This link shows what I mean; http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-math-and-philosophy-behind-tools-lateralus

I thought, yikes, if this is true these guys went to a heap of trouble! I just wanted to know what other's opinions of this are, if they think a link is there or if people are seeing patterns where there are none?

I know other artists have incorporated this kind of symbology into their music, for example the imagery used by the smashing pumpkins in their album Machina (http://www.nachtkabarett.com/SmashingPumpkins/Machina/ArtworkI-V). Does anyone else know of any other examples this kind of depth in music?

Doctor J

There was a huge thread on the Tool theory a few years ago with people going to the trouble of making copies of the album sequenced in accordance with the Fibonacci theory.

120_Minutes

Here you go

quoteunquote

I tried that whole listening to the Lateralus album in a certain order but it didn't really work for me. Maybe I did it wrong but I just gave up. Most of the songs are class regardless of what order they're in anyway.

ZakAttak

Tool are total sh1te.

Theres no hidden meaning here, they're just sh1te.

John

Oh yeah, totally! I completely thought they were good until you raised that excellent point Zak. Utterly thought provoking!

Doctor J

You've just been Zakattacked, John, do you require a towel?

Karl Hungus

I've a suspicion that ZakAttack is just trolling and trying to get a reaction. You'd do well to ignore him.

RoosterIllusion

I heard that the album was actually based around Karl Hungus being a category moderator. Something about the patient being combined with the elevator sound from the start of The Grudge supposedly meaning that Karls "treatment" for the "patients" of boards was to smash them with an elevator sounding pneumatic hammer.

Regards the Tool theory, they have some fantastic music (I own all their albums) but they are all undoubtedly assholes. There is no theory behind the music. Not only would I assume they don't have the brains/weirdness to pull something like that off but also they are way to commercial for that, I read an interview with Maynard and his reply to the suppositions of this theory were along the lines of: "Yeah I heard if you play Aenima while drinking a slurpee you can derive a hidden meaning if you play the songs at the same BPM that you drink the slurpee at" or some crap like that.

krimson765

i think maynard is the only asshole..the other guys are pretty cool and very creative artists.

Dirty Frank

Cool. Its good to get your opinion, I read the Lateralus page on Wikipedia and I wasn't too convinced. It says that for "Mantra" Maynard James Keenan recorded the sound his cat made when he squeezed it gently and then slowed it down so I didn't think that too thought provoking to be honest. I definately think their music is deep and love the album lateralus though.

But this whole thing reminds me of the last episode in Darren Brown "Trick or Treat" series where all the former guests were invited back for a party and were told that there was a counter on the wall and the first person to get their counter to reach 100 won 500 ponuds. There was all this crap left in the room, boxes and hula hoops and random things and they thought there was a pattern they were following that made the counter go up but it turned out that a girl in another room was watching a goldfish and every time it passed the mid point of the goldfish tank she put the counter up one. So the people were seeing patterns where theere were none.

Bit long winded but I think it illustrates my point!

John

I don't think you can say out of hand that there isn't some bit of nudge, nudge, wink, wink going on with Tool but whether it means anything is a different story. They seem to be conspiracy nuts and attract other conspiracy nuts so it wouldn't surprise me if they started the whole rumour themselves. Personally I don't give a toss once they keep making decent albums and playing gigs.

xseanx

look for stairway to heaven backwards on you tube!
some creepy **** right there.

ZakAttak

24 … AND HATES ILLEGAL DOWNLOADING
Some have speculated that the 10,000 Days cover art and cinematic musical flow are incentive to purchase, rather than download, the album. And Keenan takes a decidedly Lars Ulrichian view of file-sharing. “It’s stealing,” he says. “You can’t go into Wal-mart and take a jar of food.”

==>'nuff said.

Doctor J

Spot on. Stealing music is the domain of the ****ehawk and just because you don't have to hide a can under your jacket and sneak out doesn't make it any less of a theft.

I'm glad both Maynard and Zakattakkk are champions of respecting the work of artists.

ZakAttak

Stealing music is the domain of the ****ehawk

==>Its also what normal people do.

Doctor J

Normal people are theives? Are you sure?

ZakAttak

You're the one calling them thieves, not me.

John

It's also what the law calls them as technically it's copyright theft.

ZakAttak

The law says lots of things, doesn't mean you have to agree with it; or even, that its right.

LD 50

It does mean they'll bust you for it though

smurfy89

This video is fairly cool, most people probably think its bs though!

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS7CZIJVxFY

John

ZakAttak wrote: »

The law says lots of things, doesn't mean you have to agree with it; or even, that its right.

Oh yeah, totally man. Like stick it to the man, man. He can't be telling us what to do. Let's go download some Cher and take coke, that'll show him!

:rolleyes:

Doctor J

ZakAttak wrote: »

The law says lots of things, doesn't mean you have to agree with it; or even, that its right.

Since when has that mattered?

ZakAttak

Doctor J wrote: »

Since when has that mattered?

Since when has it mattered if somebody downloads music?

ZakAttak

John wrote: »

Oh yeah, totally man. Like stick it to the man, man. He can't be telling us what to do. Let's go download some Cher and take coke, that'll show him!

:rolleyes:

Go and do it then.

ZakAttak

LD 50 wrote: »

It does mean they'll bust you for it though

How many people do you personally know that have been done for it?

Karl Hungus

Right, get this back on topic. Zak, don't drag a thread off topic again.

ZakAttak

I wanted to like tool. I really did try. I still admire their skills as musicians, but after listening to much of their material (I saw them live when they performed at the only Irish Ozzfest- 2001?) I have come to the following conclusions:

Tool's lyrics are almost as bad as Morrisey's. Immature and over-dramatic. When 16 yr olds try to be philisophical they sound dumb, its much worse when the singer in question is much older then that.

Good drumming is cool, but they over indulge way too much. Sometimes their music sounds as if the only reason they're playing a song is because they've figured out a weird timing and feel a need to use it.

Big,crashing guitars every 2 seconds. This sound is initially shocking and gripping- but it wears thin quite quickly.

Take themselves way too seriously, as though they're here to educate us in something.

Karl Hungus

Wow, you actually contributed a proper opinion, not just announce that something's ****e. I'm proud of you Zak.

Undergod

There's apparently one of Debussy's works that uses the fibbonacci seuqence and the golden mean in its structure, but there was never any notes in any of debussy's notebooks about this kind of structure being deliberate, and it only happens in one work, so it's likely that it's coincidental.

dr.bollocko

I've just completely fallen out of love with them. Nothing of note since Lateralus. And I saw them live twice and they were quintessentially boring as hell twice.
Still love the earlier stuff. Though not the earliest.
Wow. I know stuff about music that happened after 1983.

120_Minutes

ZakAttak wrote: »

Take themselves way too seriously, as though they're here to educate us in something.

everything else you posted was your opinion, and while i may disagree with it, you're entitled to it. however the day you think tool take themselves too seriously is the day they've fooled you. i can give you a few examples where they most certainly dont take themselves seriously.

Doctor J

Indeed, they've always struck me as a band with a rich sense of humour running through what they do.

Somnus

I think its easy to look at listen to the songs and think they're preachy. I dont think they are though,I mean Maynard is putting out what he thinks but I dont think he's really trying to say "You shouldn't be this way"

But at the same time I could definitely see him as the only one wjo'd be an a**hole

They make great music and thats the main thing

Also, they always struck me as a band where the guitar takes the back seat.Way more orientated around the drums and bass,( and of course the vocals) which I like. My friend doesnt agree at all but thats just what I got from them

The guy

Probably NSFW

brendansmith

I heard off a lad once that tools music is designed so that if child molesters and rapist hear it they become uncomfortable.

That lad is a muppet