2.0TD Subaru Legacy - will there EVER be an Auto?

matsil

Hey all,

Looking at getting a 2.0TD "something" in 2009 - but I want an Automatic. I would LOVE the 2.0TD legacy - but I know there is no Auto..... YET.

I'm figuring, if they want to sell it to the yanks (probably their biggest market?) they're going to have to stick a Auto in it...... what are the chances of that happening in 2009?

Alternatives? Suggestions welcome..... some smart, reasoanbly economical but suitably brisk (its got be cracking the 0-60 in about 9 secs.... less important though if it has high torque and good midrange overtaking power), safe, confortable and AUTOMATIC.

Cheers,

Matsil

superjosh9

Welcome to my world..!

Tis the reason I can't buy Volvo at the moment, no small diesel auto, pain in the butt. My parents have gone with 08 Hyundai Sonatas Auto and are both very happy with them. Like me, they were looking at Legacys etc. too, so not a million miles away, but they are very happy with the Sonata. I've driven it a few times and I have to admit, for the money, it's an excellent and under-rated car. Tis worth a look as a wild card as it is auto and diesel, but the C02 band isn't the best. Very hard to find an auto car that is though, unless it uses CVT/Twin clutch etc.

New Skoda Superb looks promising, think on the petrol auto models mainly though...

bazz26

Afaik the next generation Legacy diesel will have an auto option. That is being launched middle of next year afaik.

Also btw the new model Honda Accord i-DTEC will be available with an auto. Should be on sale towards the end of this year.

Anan1

bazz26 wrote: »

Afaik the next generation Legacy diesel will have an auto option. That is being launched middle of next year afaik.

Fingers crossed they don't make a pig's @rse of it like they did with the Forester.

bazz26

Anan1 wrote: »

Fingers crossed they don't make a pig's @rse of it like they did with the Forester.

Or the Impreza..

Barr

I think theres a real market out there for small diesel autos, shame theres such few options out there

pburns

Anan1 wrote: »

Fingers crossed they don't make a pig's @rse of it like they did with the Forester.

Well this is the best speculative renderings online so far AFAIK:
I like!
http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/2008/07/2010-subaru-legacy-speculation.html

I'm not bothered about auto (come on this is supposed to be an enthusiasts forum!) but the rumoured 190bhp would be welcome as long as drivability was not effected. O and can we have the top specs please (leather etc.)? There is only one spec at the moment - dunno if this somehow makes life easier for the distributor.

I have the current model which is great apart from a phantom rattle in the cabin that is driving me nuts!

superjosh9

not driving auto is like not using a washing machine: I don't get it, unless you enjoy hand-washing that is..

Not to worry, Ireland is finally catching up on this.

galwaytt

superjosh9 wrote: »

New Skoda Superb looks promising, think on the petrol auto models mainly though...

I know two people with diesel auto Skoda's - one a Km1 1.9Tdi auto, the other a Mk2 1.9Tdi DSG.

Both have proven faultless. The Mk1 is returning, on average, 48mpg. The DSG,iirc, something similar. For 30k, you could have a 'full house' 1.9 DSG with leather, etc..........a lot of car, for reasonable money.

furtzy

Only problem with auto's is that they tend to be in a higher CO2 bracket than their manual equivalents incurring higher VRT and road tax

unkel

furtzy wrote: »

Only problem with auto's is that they tend to be in a higher CO2 bracket than their manual equivalents incurring higher VRT and road tax

DSG seems to be the exception to that rule!

R.O.R

unkel wrote: »

DSG seems to be the exception to that rule!

Unfortunately only with the Petrol engine (DSG Co2 lower than Manual), but on diesels it increases the Co2

Mondeo 2.0Tdci 140ps has Auto options so might be worth a look.
Octavia 2.0TDi 170ps VRS is available with the fantastic DSG box.
Passat 2.0Tdi DSG would suit your needs, but you are paying for the badge.

pburns

superjosh9 wrote: »

not driving auto is like not using a washing machine: I don't get it, unless you enjoy hand-washing that is..

Not to worry, Ireland is finally catching up on this.

That's a terribly condescending attitude. 'Catching up' on whom exactly - the Yanks with their wallowy cruisers? Other European states with their excellent motorway and main road networks?

For those who enjoy DRIVING their cars (including the occassional ragging on a back road etc.) the ability to select your own gears is a no-brainer. A conventional auto just doesn't allow that. I guess if Volvos and Sonata diesels are your bag this won't be a big deal for you. The washing machine analogy totally misses the point however...

And has been already pointed out, autos still sap resources from the engine leading to lower mpg, higher CO2 and reduced performance.

unkel

pburns wrote: »

the ability to select your own gears is a no-brainer. A conventional auto just doesn't allow that.

Almost all modern autos let you select your own gear. I agree with superjosh9 that feet stamping on clutch pedals will soon be a thing of the past

E92

pburns wrote: »

The washing machine analogy totally misses the point however...

Having a slush box is removing part of the thrill of driving, therefore making driving more like a white good washing machine type experience. I like the washing machine analogy tbh!

I, for one, do not want to start emulating the Americans and their lazyiness.

I wouldn't mind but it's hardly slave labour we're talking about, you'd swear using your left foot and your left hand to move a lever up, down, right and left was a terrible inconvenience:rolleyes:.

I like to call them lazymatic boxes, because you'd want to be fierce lazy to think using a clutch pedal was slave labour.

So I'll stick with the cheaper to buy, cheaper to tax, more efficient manual that's faster and more frugal to boot thank you very much.

I love the way people(especially people who like lazymatic gearboxes) think DSG is brilliant, and I don't disagree. It is the future for the gearbox as far as I'm concerned.

And do you know why it's so good?
Because it's really a proper manual gearbox with 2 electronically controlled clutches, and has very little to do with lazymatic boxes.

R.O.R

E92 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind but it's hardly slave labour we're talking about, you'd swear using your left foot and your left hand to move a lever up, down, right and left was a terrible inconvenience:rolleyes:.

I think it very much depends on the type of driving you are doing. If like me you've spent about 3 hours this week inching millimetre by millimetre from Lucan to the M1 on the M50, you'd also give your left nut for a "lazybox"

Changing gear isn't so much the problem, it's the pain in the sole of my left foot caused by the constant pressure on the clutch.

E92

R.O.R wrote: »

I think it very much depends on the type of driving you are doing. If like me you've spent about 3 hours this week inching millimetre by millimetre from Lucan to the M1 on the M50, you'd also give your left nut for a "lazybox"

Fair enough, I admit lazymatic boxes are very useful in rush hour traffic. That type of driving is not very good for your clutch in a proper box as well, clutching in and out like that.

Not living in Dublin or the greater Dublin area though, this thing called "traffic congestion" is a slight alien concept to me, so this problem rarely arises for the majority of us outside of "da big shmoke";)!

superjosh9

pburns wrote: »

That's a terribly condescending attitude. 'Catching up' on whom exactly - the Yanks with their wallowy cruisers? Other European states with their excellent motorway and main road networks?
....

Yep.

I do laugh to myself often in traffic though, which is where I usually am. Darn it, wish I had that clutch and stick..

But anyway, yep, Volvo, Hyundai...

It doesn't matter whether it has a torque converter or a double clutch system, it's still an automatic and the fact is that over the next few years it will be employed more and more often, until getting manual will be the odd thing. Anyone remember the 639 Ferrari back in 1989 with it's semi-auto sequential box? That's about the time the foot-operated clutch went out of date...

Indeed in F1, over the following years it was the big joke that F1 were using these sophisticated semi-auto boxes and Indycars were sticking to the standard stick-shift. hmm....

superjosh9

btw, didnt mean to go off topic.

Point is, I'd like an auto legacy diesel!!!

matsil

what a response..... I'll read it ALL later

Briefly - my choice of Auto. Well for one I have a bad left knee from an accident years ago, which sometimes causes me pain from driving.

For two - manual's on a twisty B road are great fun...... but when half the time youare sitting behind a corsa doing 50-70km in a 80-100km limit, and you are up and down the gear box 10 times a minute, it gets very tiresome...... especially when you are doing 40k+ km per year.....

I'll check back soon,
thanks,

Matt

unkel

superjosh9 wrote: »

Point is, I'd like an auto legacy diesel!!!

I suspect a lot of other people would want one too. And Toyota missed a huge opportunity in the taxi market because the Avensis did not come with an auto diesel

I guess the Japanese are their usual slow in picking up trends in the biggest car market in the world (EU)

E92

unkel wrote: »

And Toyota missed a huge opportunity in the taxi market because the Avensis did not come with an auto diesel

Fear not, the new Avensis coming next year will have the option of a 6 speed lazymatic box as an option for the 2.2 D-4D 150;)!

unkel

E92 wrote: »

Fear not, the new Avensis coming next year will have the option of a 6 speed lazymatic box as an option for the 2.2 D-4D 150;)!

Oh I know. 10 years too late though. When MB started letting their loyal customers down, they could have just scooped up the market. Probably too late now...*

*Not that I mind - I'd much rather be transported in a MB taxi than a Toyota one

cancan

E92 wrote: »

Having a slush box is removing part of the thrill of driving, therefore making driving more like a white good washing machine type experience. I like the washing machine analogy tbh!

I, for one, do not want to start emulating the Americans and their lazyiness.

Funny you should pick on the yanks.

Guess where is the only place in the world you can get a 6 speed manual BMW M5?

Seemingly the locals weren't too impressed that BMW stuck autos into a performance car and demanded the 6 speed.....

Simple fact though that for 90% of people, autos are what they need. Why do most people want to use their left foot when they spend most of their time stuck in traffic on their daily commute. It's just that they were brought up on manuals, so are inclined not to change.

The other 10%, just like the feeling of changing their own gears.

Tony Broke

In the non Dsg auto's, when does it change gear for you, 3000rpm usually?

Can you modify them or something to get more out of the gears?

I would hate to have 170bhp and not be able to tear the $hit out of 3rd gear.

unkel

Tony Broke wrote: »

when does it change gear for you, 3000rpm usually?

Kinda depends on the level of depression of the accelerator pedal

My 22 year old car changes up from 3rd to 4th gear at about 6k rpm (about 200km/h) if I choose to use kick-down

galwaytt

Tony Broke wrote: »

In the non Dsg auto's, when does it change gear for you, 3000rpm usually?

Can you modify them or something to get more out of the gears?

I would hate to have 170bhp and not be able to tear the $hit out of 3rd gear.

I've done 10k in a DSG - it'll change whenever you like - in lazy mode, it actually changes about 1500rpm. Use in S mode, and it'll old on much, much longer. Shove it into manual and it'll stay there all day........

So, 3 gearboxes in one, then........what's not to like ??

Cool Mo D

I know people think that you automatically lose MPG in an auto, but a proper modern automatic will actually get you better fuel performance than the equivalent manual, as the computer is extremely precise about shifting to maintain the optimum RPM, which will more than offset loses from the torque converter. And if you have an auto with continuously variable transmission, you are always guaranteed the best possible gear from an efficiency viewpoint, way better than is possible in a manual.

The ability to pick your own gear is still handy for things other than engine efficiency though.

matsil

Cool Mo D wrote: »

I know people think that you automatically lose MPG in an auto, but a proper modern automatic will actually get you better fuel performance than the equivalent manual, as the computer is extremely precise about shifting to maintain the optimum RPM, which will more than offset loses from the torque converter. And if you have an auto with continuously variable transmission, you are always guaranteed the best possible gear from an efficiency viewpoint, way better than is possible in a manual.

The ability to pick your own gear is still handy for things other than engine efficiency though.

To be honest, the way I drive, think I could only get better MPG from an Auto. I often sit behind medium speed traffic for miles, in 4th gear, waiting for an opertunity to overtake..... I quite often findmyself cruising at 60kmph which is sort of between 4th and 5th gear.... so I invariably end up sitting in 4th again...... that sort of thing...... I would say a decent Auto would return much better mpg for me.

matsil

Honestly, I used to be of the same school..... lazy drvers etc.

Now, I must admit, I have gown lazy, in general, and I was lazy in the frist place........ but I love driving on a twisty B road, when you can put the pedal down and use as many gears as possible, changing up and down gears as you enter and exit bends etc., dipping left hand bends and coming out up a hill in 2nd or 3rd gear, foot to the floor and getting into the whole thing...... exhileratig and exciting etc. The road I travel to and from work every day is full of such bends, and at about 10.30 am on a Saturday or Sunday morning, its a great "drivers" road..... BUT, I travel it at 8am and 5.30pm respectively, and 9 out of 10 times, I get a plonker in a 2litre merc or something doing about 60 or 70kmph (and its a 60km each way trip)..... which is just painful..... but the type of road means that every corner you enter you've got to drop gear just to stop the car stalling, and constantly going through 60-70-80kmph means 3rd-4th-5th gear up and down, half a dozen times per minute...... not for driving pleasure, but just t keep the car from practically stalling....... its painful, soul destroying, and to be blunt its just plain old tiresome, and there is zero enjoyment in it.....

I spend at least 10hrs a week, over 600km, under what are very tiring driving conditions..... before starting this job, I thougt this type of driving would be less tiresome and frustrating than sitting in crawling traffic (1hr for 8km)..... but your just sitting in one gear in crawling traffic, and you are lightly flexing your left foot to creep forward, and no thought is involved..... twisting country road driving on the other hand - well lets put it this way, whe you can "drive" it on a bit, its worth the effort for the enjoyment of driving..... but otherwise (stuck behind a twat at "medium" speed) it is very taxing, mentally and physically....... I have come to believe that Auto gearboxes are "meant" for this type of driving......