Ring Circuit RIP

arse..biscuits

Anyone hear the ring circuit is to be removed as a form of final circuit in the fourth edition?

DublinDilbert

arse..biscuits wrote: »

Anyone hear the ring circuit is to be removed as a form of final circuit in the fourth edition?

I wouldn't be surprised, they are unique to ireland and england...

The problem is if there's a break in the ring, it will still continue to function, except now the respective half's of the ring will not be correctly protected by the MCB... The theory is good, makes efficient use of copper...

Michael Collins

DublinDilbert wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised, they are unique to ireland and england...

The problem is if there's a break in the ring, it will still continue to function, except now the respective half's of the ring will not be correctly protected by the MCB... The theory is good, makes efficient use of copper...

Is that because the rating of the MCB is too high for the reduced current handling ability of the wire?

DublinDilbert

Michael Collins wrote: »

Is that because the rating of the MCB is too high for the reduced current handling ability of the wire?

Yea when connected in a ring circuit the cross sectional area of the cable is effectively doubled (more or less)... so instead of a 2.5sq cable you have a 5sq cable....

davelerave

would be a shame if true i hardly use any radials

eoghan.geraghty

Ring circuits are no longer allowed in kitchens as of 1 Sep this year.

DublinDilbert

I was thinking about this the other day when i was out walking...

Where was the cost saving in using a ring circuit? All i could come up with was that it was saving 1 MCB, which is about €4 these days...

I guess it gave flexibility to the end user as the 30A load could be on any part of the ring, eg the first 3 sockets could take 10A each and still be ok....

davelerave

We used them in all the new builds split them into 2 radials where a cable gets damaged .in the larger houses in rural areas theyd be a help with the voltage drop and save on cable and time

davelerave

The change in kitchens is being enforced from next september by reci.no change elsewhere yet .what about the rcbos for bathroom circuits and new height for fuseboards has that come in now?

Solair

What, specifically, are the key changes with regard to rings in the fourth edition of the wiring rules?

There are major changes to RCD requirements too from what I gather they've been extended to all circuits.

davelerave

Solair wrote: »

What, specifically, are the key changes with regard to rings in the fourth edition of the wiring rules?

There are major changes to RCD requirements too from what I gather they've been extended to all circuits.

No rings in kitchens

fishdog

DublinDilbert:

Where was the cost saving in using a ring circuit? All i could come up with was that it was saving 1 MCB, which is about €4 these days...

For the "sparks" that wired my house there was alot more than €4 to saved. He had 1 ring circuit for upstairs and 1 for down stairs, i.e. 2 socket circuits in total for a 4 bed house!! The RECI inspector insisted that this was fine, "any amout of sockets within 100 square meters is ok".

.G.

fishdog wrote: »

DublinDilbert:


For the "sparks" that wired my house there was alot more than €4 to saved. He had 1 ring circuit for upstairs and 1 for down stairs, i.e. 2 socket circuits in total for a 4 bed house!! The RECI inspector insisted that this was fine, "any amout of sockets within 100 square meters is ok".

It is fine,as far as what the rules state,wouldn't do it myself mind.Either way as stated above he should have at least run in a separate radial for the kitchen as rings are now banned.

DublinDilbert

fishdog wrote: »

For the "sparks" that wired my house there was alot more than €4 to saved. He had 1 ring circuit for upstairs and 1 for down stairs, i.e. 2 socket circuits in total for a 4 bed house!!

So with 2 extra MCBs he could of split the ring circuits and had 4 radial circuits, with exactly the same amount of cable.

arse..biscuits

DublinDilbert wrote: »

So with 2 extra MCBs he could of split the ring circuits and had 4 radial circuits, with exactly the same amount of cable.

Well, slightly less cable (the link between two sockets is removed)

DublinDilbert

arse..biscuits wrote: »

Well, slightly less cable (the link between two sockets is removed)

Yea i thought of that... But when splitting into radials you might just want to arrange things slightly differently, like for example putting the utility room on the radial circuit which feeds the hall, dinning & sitting room, to split the load etc... So i'd say its much of a much...

DublinDilbert

Here's a question, when you wire a ring circuit is there any requirement to bell the ends of the ring at the board, before connecting them, to make sure you have a complete ring circuit??

davelerave

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Here's a question, when you wire a ring circuit is there any requirement to bell the ends of the ring at the board, before connecting them, to make sure you have a complete ring circuit??

of course you test 'ring continuity'.its a good idea to switch off each ring mcb individually and make sure the top of the mcbs are not live after switch on

fishdog

DublinDilbert

So with 2 extra MCBs he could of split the ring circuits and had 4 radial circuits, with exactly the same amount of cable.

No. Because he would not be allowed to have just 2 radials for downstairs and 2 for upstaris for the following reasons:
1) A radial circuit can not be used in more than 2 rooms (a hall is not counted as a room)
2) If radials are used in the kitchen must have a minimum of 2 and they can not be used for other rooms.
3) A radial can not have more than 10 twin sockets on it

Where as a ring can have any number of sockets spanning any number of rooms within 100 square meters. This would mean my house would have required a minimum of 4 radial sockets for downstairs and 2 for upstairs. This would have been 6 MCBs (instead of 2) and a bit of extra cable.

I know your point is that little was saved, which is true. That is what pi$$ed me off.

enmac

some light reading for anyone interested..