What's right?

LegacyUser

Am a male with 2 young children - ex had an affair with someone who cannot afford to keep the lifestyle she had - am very proud to be a dad to my 2 children and want to be involved in their lives as much as a "normal" dad as I can (which has been difficult as I have been devestated by the choice my ex has made) - I will share many of the responsibilities as regards my children willingly - Obviously not happy not to live with my children and another man living with them will be really annoying (to put it mildly).

Access is not a problem, and I cannot say that my ex is a bad mother to her children -however I feel that my ex and her new partner have to take responsibility for their decisions - and that includes financial responsibility - I want my children to be brought up in a nice house - so I moved out - and am lucky I will (at the moment anyhow) be able to afford the payments on the house and a reasonable apartment for myself to rent - other man has not moved in yet, but is it reasonable that when he does maintenance payments be adjusted so everyone pays their fair share ? - Am trying hard to be reasonable about this for the sake of my children.

I obviously don't trust my ex - or her new partner and am trying to think of the mtge payments as being their inheritance as my chances of saving are gone now, but I also need to think of me getting on with my life. I often think would things have been different If I asked my ex to leave when I found out about the affair and stayed in the house myself, have I made the decision to leave too easy for her to make ? But then I know that the lies and deceipt were far too much to forgive and forget and try to be a family again - whcih would have been worse than this for the children.

What do people think is fair ?

Curvy Vixen

See a solicitor....but assuming you weren't married you should only be paying child support anyway, not child and spousal support. Let your ex buy you out of the house but get yourself legal advice...

Wibbs

From my standpoint and your description I think you have been very fair. Kudos. But I do agree with Curvy Vixen, get legal advice and get it fast, so as you're not taken to the cleaners beyond what is fair and what is good for your children.

metrovelvet

As their father you are financially responsible for those children along with your ex. Her new bf, hubby, whatever is not. Part of maintenance is to provide a roof over your children's head. I can see what you are saying but maintenance is not assessed that way. It is assessed on what you can afford to pay based on your income and expenditure. It does not take into account the income of your ex's new significant others.

A lot cannot be answered until you tell us if you were married or not.

LegacyUser

yes we were married - tho not for long ;-(

dudara

Make sure to seek legal advice. It will put the separation on a formal footing and clearly outline the financial and other responsibilities.

LegacyUser

Noted re legal advice and is something I am pursuing, but I'd like to get peoples personal opinion as to what is morally right ?

mud

It's very difficult to give an opinion on what I think I'd do in your situation because I've no idea what you are going through.

However, if your wife was the one who left and essentially ended the marriage I don't think you should be paying for her house, why not sell the house, split the proceeds and then pay child support at an agreed rate.

Then you can both get on with your lives and concentrate on raising your children

Gannicus

I agree too. Seek legal advice. On the basis you're not marruied - officially you can seek to have the house if only your name on the mortgage or that the house be sold and whats leftover divided up. That way you and your ex can get somewhere nice on mortgages and both share the parental responsibility equally. It seems pretty obvious that you love your kids and that you don't want to lose them. I think we're all agreed the best person to speak to would be a solicitor and get the ball rolling. while trying to do it calmly and maturly with your ex. You seem to be a very reasonable guy.

milod

Advice from personal experience:

Get advice quick or you'll be taken to the cleaners. This is where high-minded morals meet head-on with financial reality. In two or three years time, when you wife is enjoying your home along with her new partner, you'll feel more bitter and won't be able to afford to start your own life again. What if you meet someone new? and can't afford to establish a home with her?

ask yourself:

Will her new partner pay rent if he moves in? or will you subsidize his accommodation? Regardless of Metrovelvet's point, this does have a bearing on the amount of maintenance you must pay.

Does you wife work, or plan to work when the kids are older? She is jointly responsible for their upkeep - not just you.

Is your wife as worried about the morality of this situation? She's f**ked you over plain and simple and expects you to sort out the bill.

Keep you morality by all means, but gather your self-respect together and deal with her or she'll realize you're there for the taking.

Wagon

Do you think it's right that you have to pay this new chap's rent? Course it's not. Get legal advice. Don't be robbed blind paying for your ex's new lifestyle. Remember, it was her choice to have the affair not yours, so she can be a responsable mother and pay for it. You did nothing wrong whatsoever so it seems. Maybe try and get custody of the children? Any woman or man who goes and has an affair then just lets some new partner move in and take up the role of other parent like that doesn't exactly sound like a good parent to me. Sadly the courts system is a mess, so the odds are in her favour but at least try. From what I can see from a moral standpoint, you are getting ripped off as a man and a father. The fact that you were married will also give you a better chance.

The Corinthian

Unregistered wrote: »

Noted re legal advice and is something I am pursuing, but I'd like to get peoples personal opinion as to what is morally right ?

You were your children's father before splitting up with your wife and you will remain so. As such the financial and social responsibilities and rights remain yours and your wife's (she has a financial duty to them also). Her boyfriend has no responsibilities or rights with regard to your children, legally or otherwise. Full stop.

As to your wife, the marriage ended as a result of her essentially leaving you for another man and combined with the brevity of the marriage, you really have very little moral obligation to her.

So, if you want my moral opinion, see to your children and give her the bare minimum possible - pay only child maintenance if you can do so, although having married her, this is unlikely.

Legally, you're a far tougher position. She owns half the house already from the moment she married you and can claim spousal maintenance as well as child maintenance - in the circuit court this will be capped at €800 p.w. (€500 for her and €150 per child). Given your circumstances (and taking your account of things at face value) you should be able to get away with paying child maintenance (as if you were never married) and keep half of the house (as long as you pay the mortgage), without it affecting your other assets, inheritance or pension. Seek professional advice as has been suggested.

mountainyman

You have no obligation to this woman.
Poverty, provided that minimum needs are met, does children no harm in the long term.

One of the most dangerous things you can give a child is a stepfather. Sexual abuse, child murder rates are off the charts for stepfathers compared with biological fathers.

You should look for custody. If she is poorer than you you have a siginifcant advantage.

As to the issue of the amount to be paid you want to have an extraordinary income for the District court to award morse than about 200 per month.

BroomBurner

If you're not married that long, could an annullment be looked at?

As everyone has said, seek good legal advice.

Morally speaking, see if the new man will pay rent that would cover your half of the mortgage repayments and ensure that the legal papers for the house have your children as the beneficeries (if possible, I'm sure a solicitor will be able to work this out). Just because you can afford to bankroll this new guy, doesn't mean you have to.

Try to set aside any moral feeling and look ahead 5 - 10 years and try to figure out if you'll be happy still paying a full mortgage, child support and spousal support while another man brings up your kids. Not to mention the money you'll be spending for him to do so.

metrovelvet

Given that you weren't married that long and she broke the marriage contract morally I don't think she should be entitled to any alimony whatsover. The law may see it differently though, I have no idea about this.

The problem with the mortgage question is that you are talking about property as part of a legacy to the children, and regardless of what he can and would pay, the bf that is, do you really want a man to pay for the roof over your kids heads? Morally, I think that is kind of gross.

If new boyfriend is to pay something then at most he should pay for a fraction in proportion to the space he occupies. So if he is 1 of four people living there, perhaps he should only pay 1/4. I dont think he shoudl have to bank roll your kids. But if you do start kicking up about this, he may demand that he be part of the mortgage/deed. Can he do this? Maybe someone else can answer this.

MagicMarker

You let her off way to easily and now you'll be paying for her to shack up with the guy who she cheated on you with!!!

Personally, i think you should pack your shít, go back over there and sleep on the couch.

If she wants to move in with this guy, she can fúck off and get her own place. No way would I be paying for their house. I interpret from your post that you're paying all of the mortgage?

Nope, not a chance i would move out of my own house if SHE cheated on ME!

metrovelvet

MagicMarker wrote: »

You let her off way to easily and now you'll be paying for her to shack up with the guy who she cheated on you with!!!

Personally, i think you should pack your shít, go back over there and sleep on the couch.

If she wants to move in with this guy, she can fúck off and get her own place. No way would I be paying for their house. I interpret from your post that you're paying all of the mortgage?

Nope, not a chance i would move out of my own house if SHE cheated on ME!

Right. And have your kids in a pea soup of tension and the woman who broke your heart in your face all the time.

MagicMarker

metrovelvet wrote: »

Right. And have your kids in a pea soup of tension and the woman who broke your heart in your face all the time.

She can move out then. Simple as.

metrovelvet

Unlikely and its not like he can throw her out. OP did the right thing. He doesnt want his kids homeless.

MagicMarker

I personally would not let something like that effect the kids, i think i'm grown up enough to have a bit of cop on. But the simple fact is, it's also my home and I have as much right to live to there. There would be absolutely no reason for me to move out, especially in a case where it was my partner who was unfaithful.

If she were unhappy with me staying in the house then she can make a decision to get her own place, I would happily take over the mortgage and take care of the children (why exactly would they be homeless?), once she's done that we can talk about custody/visitation/who the kids will live with.

Why is it that because this guy has a penis, he has to give up everything he has because his wife couldn't keep her legs closed? He's given up his home, his kids, a large portion of his salary just so he can now support himself in an apartment AS WELL as pay for the family home?

It's just not on.

metrovelvet

Ok and you can explain to your kids why one of you is sleeping on the couch and not talking to each other or eating together. Fantasy land my friend.

MagicMarker

metrovelvet wrote: »

Ok and you can explain to your kids why one of you is sleeping on the couch and not talking to each other or eating together. Fantasy land my friend.

As apposed to explaining why daddy doesn't live there any more, and why they can only see him once or twice a week and not eating together? Oh, and mummy, who's this strange man living in our house?

metrovelvet

Has he moved in yet?

How about why mommy and daddy are divorcing but still living together?

MagicMarker

metrovelvet wrote: »

Has he moved in yet?

How about why mommy and daddy are divorcing but still living together?

Regardless of who moves out or who lives in the house, the same thing still has to be explained to the children. If they live together, and can behave maturely together for the sake of the children, then i'm sure the children would prefer them under the same roof. I'm not saying this is a long term solution, but for the time being i think in this case, it's fair on the father, so he can see his kids, and not have to fork out for a separate apartment. IF she can't handle this situation, then SHE can move out.

So unless you can provide a good reason why she deserves to stay in the house more so than the OP, other than the fact that she has a vagina, and judging by previous posts of yours, forgive me for thinking that this is your only reason, then I would appreciate if you just stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

metrovelvet

Your latest two posts have devolved into a level of crassness I do not wish to engage with.

The OP will know what is best for him and his family.

Wibbs

OK folks back on topic

milod

@Metrovelet: Your youth, idealism, and obvious lack of life experience are showing. No matter what the OP does, his children will be negatively affected by his wife's actions. I can only infer from your points that you think the OP should sacrifice his financial security so that his children aren't exposed to any tension. Most children experience parental discord at some stage, and it's a normal part of growing up.

@OP: Mate, as soon as you relinquish your right to live in your own house, your wife gains immediate control of the situation. I can't believe she'd move someone else in while you're there, so grab the spare bedroom and fight for your rights. Stand up to her and make life as difficult for her as she has done for you. Remember that the family courts in this country give a decision, not necessarily justice. That decision will have no particular basis in moral right or wrong. It will simply follow the letter of law with a strong bias toward the no-doubt 'victimised' wife and children. Divorce etc is based on a 'no-fault' principle and you won't get the chance to argue your point on the morality of your wife's actions.

What you do in the next few weeks will have a strong bearing on how your future will look.

pickarooney

Morally:
Even in a misandrist legal system I can't imagine why you should have to consent to allowing a stranger live in your house. As the owner and (potential) landlord, you should have the right to choose who lives under your roof and the right to veto a stranger's access to your children. You should also not be required to provide for your ex, who willfulyl provoked the divorce, although quite how you can provide for your children without their primary carer having direct access to the funds, I don't know.

Legally:
Ask a good lawyer - the discrepancy between logic and the law can at times be phenomenal.