Election in 2009?

sdanseo

I'm curious. The man from Mayo seems to fancy his chances, what do we think? Likely, or will Cowen and his cohorts plough on unchallenged with the lapdog greens in tow?

Note: I'm not asking "do you want an election" but looking for a prediction, please.

Quick and simple, no massive political debate needed hence the AH location, not Politics. I want a vox pop, not just the opinion of the politics lads.

Run_to_da_hills

Maybe Libertas will be ready for it.

Quazzie

Seriously FFS isn't there a politics thread for this stuff..

EDIT: Here it is

Darragh29

I'd say there will be, but I won't be voting for change until they get rid of Enda Kenny...

Prof.Badass

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Maybe Libertas will be ready for it.

it's all starting to unravel now.

Bob the Builder

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'd say there will be, but I won't be voting for change until they get rid of Enda Kenny...

he might look stupid, he might be a plank. but there is substance to the man... and there's a hell of a lot more substance than there is in cowen or even lenihan.

Bruton is, no doubt about it, a million times more intelligent than lenihan.

Darragh29

nevf wrote: »

he might look stupid, he might be a plank. but there is substance to the man... and there's a hell of a lot more substance than there is in cowen or even lenihan.

Bruton is, no doubt about it, a million times more intelligent than lenihan.

Well maybe you see it but I don't. I have to have a good gut feeling on someone to vote for them and my gut feeling is that Enda Kenny is not the man who is going to resolve our issues here...

Run_to_da_hills

vinylmesh wrote: »

it's all starting to unravel now.

They will have no problem raising campaign funds

javaboy

nevf wrote: »

he might look stupid, he might be a plank. but there is substance to the man... and there's a hell of a lot more substance than there is in cowen or even lenihan.

I have to disagree here. Cowen is 3 times the man Inda Kinny is. But if you want substance then look no further than our very own Minister for Health.

Mark200

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Maybe Libertas will be ready for it.

Are they those annoying anti-EU guys?


I agree with Darragh29, it's all well and good saying "Fianna Fail out" but you won't be voting for who you want out, you'll be voting for who you want in. And I'm not all that motivated to vote for a party led by Enda Kenny. I'd have no problem voting for Fine Gail if there was anyone but Enda Kenny in charge.

So I duno what I would actually do if there was an election in 2009. I might give one vote to Sinn Fein for good measure and call it quits

Run_to_da_hills

Mark200 wrote: »

Are they those annoying anti-EU guys?


I agree with Darragh29, it's all well and good saying "Fianna Fail out" but you won't be voting for who you want out, you'll be voting for who you want in. And I'm not all that motivated to vote for a party led by Enda Kenny. I'd have no problem voting for Fine Gail if there was anyone but Enda Kenny in charge.

So I duno what I would actually do if there was an election in 2009. I might give one vote to Sinn Fein for good measure and call it quits

Sinn Fein are also "annoying anti-EU guys" as you put it. http://www.no2lisbon.ie/en/sinn-fein-meps

Mark200

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Sinn Fein are also "annoying anti-EU guys" as you put it. http://www.no2lisbon.ie/en/sinn-fein-meps

I know that :mad:

I just find Libertas as an organisation extremely irritating. I've nothing against Sinn Fein as a party overall, but I don't support their Eu policy. You aren't going to find any party that you 100% agree with unless you set one up yourself

javaboy

Mark200 wrote: »

I just find Libertas as an organisation extremely irritating. I've nothing against Sinn Fein as a party overall, but I don't support their Eu policy. You aren't going to find any party that you 100% agree with unless you set one up yourself

I can find one I 100% disagree with though.

Shmuck

Sinn Fein are the only credible opposition party in my opinion. Kenny is a joke, can't believe FG haven't ousted him yet.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

sdonn_1 wrote: »

I'm curious. The man from Mayo seems to fancy his chances, what do we think? Likely, or will Cowen and his cohorts plough on unchallenged with the lapdog greens in tow?

Quick and simple, no massive political debate needed hence the AH location, not Politics. I want a vox pop, not just the opinion of the politics lads.

Won't this happen anyway, regarldess of whether or not there's an election?

shenanigans1982

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Won't this happen anyway, regarldess of whether or not there's an election?

Even if there is an election the outcome will just be the same....people will vote them back in then come on radio/tv/internet and complain about them.

Our only consolation is that voting FF into power a second time is not as stupid as voting George Bush into power a second time.

sdanseo

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Won't this happen anyway, regarldess of whether or not there's an election?

Well, that's as may be. I find it hard to believe that after a General Election the exact same arrangement as we have now would be replicated. I'd be hoping that nowhere near the same remains - what e have simply isnt' working and isn't going to start working any time soon.

So much for my caveat about no need for a political debate :pac:

Just a thought - I bet Bertie Ahern is giggling like a schoolgirl just now. Nice timing bud.

javaboy

Shmuck wrote: »

Sinn Fein are the only credible opposition party in my opinion. Kenny is a joke, can't believe FG haven't ousted him yet.

Voting SF is like voting for a hospital candidate long after the hospital's future has been secured. They have outlived their usefulness if they ever had any.

A reasonable solution to the situation in NI has been reached that keeps most people happy. The job's done or at least as done as it's going to get any time soon.

If you actually look at a SF election manifesto, you'll see their policies have no substance. They enjoy the luxury of being able to make silly election promises and spout anti-EU rubbish and propose budget measures that wouldn't be feasible because they know they'll never get elected and be forced to put them into practice.

Everyone can make fantastic promises if they're never expected to put them into practice.

brianthebard

Shmuck wrote: »

Sinn Fein are the only credible opposition party in my opinion. Kenny is a joke, can't believe FG haven't ousted him yet.

What have they done in opposition to make you say that, or is it a case of preferring SF from the outset? How many new seats did they win in the last election?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Shmuck wrote: »

Sinn Fein are the only credible opposition party in my opinion. Kenny is a joke, can't believe FG haven't ousted him yet.

+1.

My vote swung from SF to FF a few years back, but its done a complete U-turn again.

I can't say I'll never vote FF (but it won't be for the foreseeable future). But I'll never vote FG.

I'm very disappointed in The Green party, because although I'd have never voted for them I always gave them credit for having the courage of their convictions, but they've shown their true colours and shown themselves up for the lackys they truely are.

Marcus.Aurelius

Even now, I doubt the irish public are intelligent enough to see the folly of Fianna Failure. I can see them getting back in quite handy. It's hilarious, us pointing the finger at the Yanks and berating them for putting Bush back in, while we put the soldiers of failure and squandering back in every time.

It's hilarious and at the same time horribly depressing.

Darragh29

Here's what I think and I'm actually amazed that we have this problem at all. I don't know how to describe what I'm going to bring up here other than "political entrepreneurship". If the current people who make up the complete political spectrum in this country are that unattractive as a voting option, how come we haven't had some good people coming together to form a new political party, that people can vote for???

You'd think that where there is a demand for a change, that we wouldn't be talking about an election in 09 but also conceding that there may as well not be, because the alternative is worse than the people that we all now know that we want rid of...

sdanseo

Mairt wrote: »

I'm very disappointed in The Green party, because although I'd have never voted for them I always gave them credit for having the courage of their convictions, but they've shown their true colours and shown themselves up for the lackys they truely are.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

tolosenc

In fairness, Darragh29, I don't think it is even nearly possible for Enda Kenny/Fine Gael to be worse than Cowan/FF.

javaboy

Mairt wrote: »

I'm very disappointed in The Green party, because although I'd have never voted for them I always gave them credit for having the courage of their convictions, but they've shown their true colours and shown themselves up for the lackys they truely are.

Out of interest, specifically how have the Greens shown themselves to be lackeys?

Bob the Builder

Democracy doesn't work in this country.
Looks like all we got left is the communist party to rely on...

Darragh29

obl wrote: »

In fairness, Darragh29, I don't think it is even nearly possible for Enda Kenny/Fine Gael to be worse than Cowan/FF.

Anything is possible with these twits. The scene of Fr. Dougal at a funeral with a coffin on fire in the background springs to mind...

RoosterIllusion

nevf wrote: »

Looks like all we got left is the communist party to rely on...

Tried. Tested. Our only hope :pac:

Help us Comrade Stalin!

Shmuck

javaboy wrote: »

Voting SF is like voting for a hospital candidate long after the hospital's future has been secured. They have outlived their usefulness if they ever had any.

A reasonable solution to the situation in NI has been reached that keeps most people happy. The job's done or at least as done as it's going to get any time soon.

If you actually look at a SF election manifesto, you'll see their policies have no substance. They enjoy the luxury of being able to make silly election promises and spout anti-EU rubbish and propose budget measures that wouldn't be feasible because they know they'll never get elected and be forced to put them into practice.

Everyone can make fantastic promises if they're never expected to put them into practice.

I'm not even talking about their aim for a united Ireland, I just think they would run the country a lot better than FF and FG. What policies of theirs have no substance pray tell? FF made fantastic promises and look where we are now. As for FG they are a joke, for every good thing FF have done FG say yeah "we would of done that too", for every mistake they've made FG critise them but fail to say what they would of done differently, or what should be done to remedy the situation. Its getting very tedious at this stage.

Bob the Builder

Darragh29 wrote: »

Anything is possible with these twits. The scene of Fr. Dougal at a funeral with a coffin on fire in the background springs to mind...

the only person that would have handled this situation better is bertie, and he's gone, and waiting for his mahon report.

I disagree with you when you say kenny couldn't do a better job. Kenny would do either an equally as good job or better than what cowen is doing now.

hopping on an airplane days after a budget and bringing half your cabinet is not smart, especially in controversial circumstances like this. The budget doesn't even exist anymore. Lots of the basic principles have been eradicated. It's been handled completely wrong, and in terms of experience, Enda has just as much experience at been taoiseach as Cowen has.

I still stand by my statement when I say Bruton is better than Lenihan. He has more balls and doesn't have the ignorant, prick approach that lenihan has. In many cases in politics, having a large CV isn't always the most important element of a job.

Even when you include Labour, Eamonn Gilmore mightn't come across as being nice, but he has fire in his belly, much like his predecessor Pat Rabbitte. Apart from their policies, I think the people at the higher ranks of the Labour Party are much better. Leo Varadkar is another man that Fine gael have that I predict as been a massive asset into the future.

Shmuck

RoosterIllusion wrote: »

Tried. Tested. Our only hope :pac:

Help us Comrade Stalin!

In fairness Ireland needs a strong leader like stalin, only less evil. Cowen hasn't got the stones to make any tough decisions that will get us out of the mess we are in.

Guy:Incognito

nevf wrote: »

he might look stupid, he might be a plank. but there is substance to the man... and there's a hell of a lot more substance than there is in cowen or even lenihan.

It's very easy to say all the right things and make it out liuke everything will be great if people put you in power (Hitler was great at that bit) but actually being in charge and having to run the country preopely is a whole different kettle of fish.

I could set up a party tommorow and promise free money for all and 100% employment, abolishing povetry etc etc. Wouldnt work in practice though (despite what SF think).

In short, being in opposition is easy, you just badmouth the government and tell everyone things will be brilliant under you.

Shacklebolt

Darragh29 wrote: »

Anything is possible with these twits. The scene of Fr. Dougal at a funeral with a coffin on fire in the background springs to mind...

Dont forget the hearse that crasged into the headstone. And the dozens of mourners suffering from smoke inhalation.


But more on topic I think if the government lasts a year it will last its full term.

sdanseo

javaboy wrote: »

Out of interest, specifically how have the Greens shown themselves to be lackeys?

By selling out for power for a start.

javaboy

sdonn_1 wrote: »

By selling out for power for a start.

How so?

sdanseo

javaboy wrote: »

How so?

Are you making me prove this to make a point? It's common knowledge and I'll make several points.

- Trevor Sergeant resigned because he knew they were going to go into coalition with FF and presumably didnt like it
-They've failed to deliver the massive environmental changes they promised
-They arrive to work on bikes but have fatter pay cheques than they did for seemingly no extra effort or result that I've seen any proof of
-A Junior Minister for food? Please. An excuse to pay Trevor more money. Pure and simple.
-They never wanted coalition BEFORE the election, but changed their tune very soon after, eg:

Ciaran Cuffe Just after the election: "A deal with Fianna Fáil would be a deal with the devil. We would be spat out after 5 years, and decimated as a Party."

John Gormley in Feb 07: "For let there be no doubt, we want Fianna Fáil and the PDs out of Government."

Source (Accessed 0347 04 Nov 2008) The same section lists many of the broken promises made by the party prior to June 2007.

Gogarty effectively said the coalition wouldnt last but took it back out of fear for his hide.

The reason it won't last is because the greens threw their principles down the bog and took the cash. HORIFFIC attitude - especially for the one party that's globally looked upon as beurocratic eco-freaks.

Frankly Im disgusted with them, and with myself for giving them a preference.

Ass

I hope one of the parties have a black guy as their leader. Voting for black people seems to be in this season.

javaboy

sdonn_1 wrote: »

Are you making me prove this to make a point?

Kind of. Tbh I've heard a lot of people say the same thing about the Greens but not be able to back it up with specifics. I was wondering if you would.

- Trevor Sergeant resigned because he knew they were going to go into coalition with FF and presumably didnt like it

That was odd all right. He did the job is party voted for which was to get them into a coalition government but then resigned the leadership on principle. Maybe Sargent is too much of an idealist.

-They've failed to deliver the massive environmental changes they promised

They are a minority party in a coalition government though. They have introduced a fair few environmental measures. I don't know how much people expected of them in 2 years in government.

-They arrive to work on bikes but have fatter pay cheques than they did for seemingly no extra effort or result that I've seen any proof of

Arriving on bikes fits with the principles. Nothing wrong with taking a bigger pay cheque. I'm sure they are doing more work in government than they did before. As for extra effort or result, it's a bit blinkered to suggest they haven't done anything. Tell people in the motor trade that the Greens haven't got 'results'.

-A Junior Minister for food? Please. An excuse to pay Trevor more money. Pure and simple.

Won't disagree there. All junior ministries are an excuse to pay somebody more money.:)

-They never wanted coalition BEFORE the election, but changed their tune very soon after, eg:

The Greens are never going to lead a majority government. They will always be a minority player. Exactly how many pieces of legislation do you think they could implement from the opposition benches?

Ciaran Cuffe Just after the election: "A deal with Fianna Fáil would be a deal with the devil. We would be spat out after 5 years, and decimated as a Party."

John Gormley in Feb 07: "For let there be no doubt, we want Fianna Fáil and the PDs out of Government."

Source (Accessed 0347 04 Nov 2008) The same section lists many of the broken promises made by the party prior to June 2007.

Gogarty effectively said the coalition wouldnt last but took it back out of fear for his hide.

The reason it won't last is because the greens threw their principles down the bog and took the cash. HORIFFIC attitude - especially for the one party that's globally looked upon as beurocratic eco-freaks.

Frankly Im disgusted with them, and with myself for giving them a preference.

The anti-FF rhetoric does look pretty bad all right when they subsequently go into coalition with them. But if you look at Joe Biden's comments about Obama before Obama won the Dem. nomination or probably a hundred other situations where politicians end up working together, they probably all say horrible things about each other beforehand.

Maybe they just reasoned that they could do a lot more with a little power than they could with no power at all. I'm sure FF were the last party they wanted to go into coalition with but maybe if they rejected the chance to get power when they could, the electorate would consider them an all talk and no action party. Who wants to waste their vote on a party that doesn't want to be in government after all?

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not a big Green party fan. I just think some people had some very unrealistic expectations of what they were going to capable of in one term as a minority player in a FF government. The coalition set up i.e. with PDs, GP and some independents, was designed to dilute the power of the minority groups. The government had far more seats than necessary so that each group on its own was expendable. If the GP threatened to walk on an issue, FF could afford to let them. Ditto PDs and the independents. It was a very astute political move and crippled the Green party to a certain extent.

It will be interesting to see what sort of vote the Green Party gets at the next election. I reckon they'll suffer badly as the health of the planet takes a backseat in people's minds to the economy. Going into coalition with FF was possibly the undoing of the party but I can see the reasoning behind why they went in.