Visible presence

IRISH RAIL

Just from something on another thread got me thinking

In Israel the police always have there lights on even some unmarked cars I asked a cop who told me its better for a presence if your driving thru an area when people see the lights they start obeying the law, I tought it was a good idea as there version of o connell street had one jeep on the end of the street, and everyone could see the lights so they just carried on no fights or anything like that.
what do members think of implementing that over here ?

Random

I'm not a member.

You're talking about having lights on all the time? I think that's a bad idea. It will lead to less respect for the Garda when they're trying to get through traffic - why should I move over for them if they're just putting lights on to let people know they're there?

arybvtcw0eolkf

I'm not a garda either, but I've spent alot of time in Israel and would be against it also.

Also as regards your 'no fights' comment. Well I found that policing in Israel was a little tougher than here in Ireland, the police men and women were not as lazy in their policing methods as here and didn't pussy foot around around idiots, unlike here.

I found the difference between here and Israel (and a lot of other countries I've been to) is that instead of taking the path of least resistance and going heavy on the law abidding members of the community (like our lads tend to do), the police in these countries operated a very low tolerance policy towards scumbags, gurriers and law breakers, so you don't find the same level of street crime in Israel as here.

On the whole, I felt a lot safer on the streets of Israel than here in Ireland. But police lights constantly on didn't make up that difference.

TheNog

Not crazy about the idea either. People would become too used to seeing the lights as Random said.

Also its hard enough to catch people breaking the law when in a marked up vehicle without making our presence enough more visible.

But fair play for putting the idea out there though. Anyone have any more? Within reason of course:pac:

IRISH RAIL

Without dragging it off topic I have to agree with mairt
I felt so much safer in Israel than here
I still think the idea of a light flashing say on o connell bridge with a member standing beside it is good a lot of public order incidents would occour around there and it would put the scum off if they seen it.

deadwood

I've seen, in the Shtates, where they have a slow rolling roof beacon they put on in the same way we leave the Garda sign on.

I've also seen cop cars in (usually) mid-eastern coun tries where they zoom around in fun-size cars and suzuki biscuit-tin vans like blue arsed flies. Just creates a lot of noise.

In Rome, all you hear is sirens. You'll often see cop cars driving aimlessly around with sirens blazing. You stop rubber-necking ater about 10 minutes because they lose their impact. They still manage to look sexy though- kind of reminds me of me..

Eru

Mairt wrote: »

Also as regards your 'no fights' comment. Well I found that policing in Israel was a little tougher than here in Ireland, the police men and women were not as lazy in their policing methods as here and didn't pussy foot around around idiots, unlike here.

Ah Jesus Christ, it really is a no win situation isnt it? Were either thugs on a power trip or lazy and incapable.

Not everyone needs a charge sheet all the time you know and you, your brother, etc could well be one of those idiots that has had one too many and would appreciate the easy going, common sense, give him a second chance Garda dealing with him.

BTW, the cells in Store Street and Pearce Street are full every weekend with people and having Gardai processing silly little things drains the low resources we have thus reducing visibility which in turn increases incidents of assault, public order, etc and then you have the "Where were the Guards when I needed them?" comments.

The other point, in Dublin city centre there are Gardai delegated to areas at the weekend. Oconnell street lower, upper, Abbey Street middle, Boardwalk, etc but theres only so many of us and theres also a lot of little laneways, etc where people end up and we have to go in and sort the problem out. On occasions when resources allow a van would normally park up on the median strip but again, they are often busy taking prisoners back to the station.

Of course then when your on oconnell street stopping crime from happening there with your presence people want to know why you werent everywhere else at the same time. :rolleyes:

Faheywitane

Mairt wrote: »

I found the difference between here and Israel (and a lot of other countries I've been to) is that instead of taking the path of least resistance and going heavy on the law abidding members of the community (like our lads tend to do), the police in these countries operated a very low tolerance policy towards scumbags, gurriers and law breakers, so you don't find the same level of street crime in Israel as here.

Why oh why do Irish people have to berate everything that is Irish.
The grass is always greener.

Hagar

TheNog wrote: »

Anyone have any more? Within reason of course:pac:

How about using civil servants to do some of the work in the stations? There's a lot of manpower tied up answering phones, typing, dealing with queries at the desk, handing out tax forms, recording production of tax and insurance etc. I'm sure there are some jobs that can't / shouldn't be delegated to civilians (under present regs that could be modified if need be) but at a guess a couple of extra pairs of hands per station might help. I'd bet there are many civil servants in various departments that could be re-deployed via de-centralization. Confidentiallity needn't be an issue, many civil servants in healthcare and revenue deal with private matters every day without anty problems.

CLADA

Hagar wrote: »

How about using civil servants to do some of the work in the stations? There's a lot of manpower tied up answering phones, typing, dealing with queries at the desk, handing out tax forms, recording production of tax and insurance etc. I'm sure there are some jobs that can't / shouldn't be delegated to civilians (under present regs that could be modified if need be) but at a guess a couple of extra pairs of hands per station might help. I'd bet there are many civil servants in various departments that could be re-deployed via de-centralization. Confidentiallity needn't be an issue, many civil servants in healthcare and revenue deal with private matters every day without anty problems.

Been saying that for years, would even go further and civilianise (not privatise) enforcement of certain road traffic offences such as speeding, tax, NCT etc..

I have zero respect for any able-bodied garda who is sitting at a desk in the Phoenix Park.
There are many posts that do not have "security issues" and hundreds of gardai could be freed up if these positions were civilianised.

donvito99

In Istanbul they have the lights on constantly. The main reason though is because the drivers in this country are ridiculously speedy and dangerous.

QUOTE FROM IRISH RAIL POST #1: I tought it was a good idea as there version of o connell street had one jeep on the end of the street, and everyone could see the lights so they just carried on no fights or anything like that.

they do this aswell, park up on the main shopping street and have the lights goin'.

Esel

deadwood wrote: »

They still manage to look sexy though- kind of reminds me of me..

I can see it now:

Mirror, Signal, Mirror, Mirror, Mirror, Mirror, Mwah!

TheNog

Hagar wrote: »

How about using civil servants to do some of the work in the stations? There's a lot of manpower tied up answering phones, typing, dealing with queries at the desk, handing out tax forms, recording production of tax and insurance etc. I'm sure there are some jobs that can't / shouldn't be delegated to civilians (under present regs that could be modified if need be) but at a guess a couple of extra pairs of hands per station might help. I'd bet there are many civil servants in various departments that could be re-deployed via de-centralization. Confidentiallity needn't be an issue, many civil servants in healthcare and revenue deal with private matters every day without anty problems.

In the last 2 years 2500 civilians have been employed by the AGS to free up desk bound Gardai which is a good move but I get the feeling that the figure of 2500 civilians does not equate to 2500 more Gardai available for operational policing. Maybe I'm wrong.

CLADA wrote: »

Been saying that for years, would even go further and civilianise (not privatise) enforcement of certain road traffic offences such as speeding, tax, NCT etc..

I have zero respect for any able-bodied garda who is sitting at a desk in the Phoenix Park.
There are many posts that do not have "security issues" and hundreds of gardai could be freed up if these positions were civilianised.

I would privatise execution of penal warrants and summons serving. A nice chunk of my time goes on these activities.

+1 on getting members out of the Depot and back on the streets. I never could understand why so many Gardai are answering phones etc in there when it could easily be done by civilians.

Eru

Hagar wrote: »

How about using civil servants to do some of the work in the stations? There's a lot of manpower tied up answering phones, typing, dealing with queries at the desk, handing out tax forms, recording production of tax and insurance etc. I'm sure there are some jobs that can't / shouldn't be delegated to civilians (under present regs that could be modified if need be) but at a guess a couple of extra pairs of hands per station might help. I'd bet there are many civil servants in various departments that could be re-deployed via de-centralization. Confidentiallity needn't be an issue, many civil servants in healthcare and revenue deal with private matters every day without anty problems.

I agree within reason and as Clara said, if your able bodied then why not however I work in an office at the moment and I wouldnt consider it suitable for civilians to do. Neither do I intend to make it my career, just a little break from the streets

Oh and it started with various positions being filled with civil servants however with the present situation I would imagine it will be reduced as recruitment drives in all public sector areas will stop thereby reducing civil servant numbers through retirement.

FGR

"just a little break from the streets"

I don't know about that, Karl. You might turn to the dark side and begin to enjoy writing 'please explain'..:D

deadwood

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

I agree within reason and as Clara said, if your able bodied then why not however I work in an office at the moment and I wouldnt consider it suitable for civilians to do.

If only there was some kind of legislation, maybe an Act of some sort, where it was illegal to divulge secrets that are, I dunno, official?

I used to work in a county council for summer in college and we had to sign it!

Eru

deadwood wrote: »

If only there was some kind of legislation, maybe an Act of some sort, where it was illegal to divulge secrets that are, I dunno, official?

I used to work in a county council for summer in college and we had to sign it!

thats not why I consider it unsuitable smart arse!

TheNog

deadwood wrote: »

If only there was some kind of legislation, maybe an Act of some sort, where it was illegal to divulge secrets that are, I dunno, official?

I used to work in a county council for summer in college and we had to sign it!

This man can help