RTÉ Racism/Discrimination?

Elmo

Are we wrong to complain about either Katherine Lynch and Tommy Teirnan?

I am surprised that RTE choose to take Katherine Lynch's show over Twentysomething (which got rave reviews here on Boards :eek:).

It seems to me that the same outrage didn't occur for Katherine Lynch's comedy pilot earlier this year, she was save the brunt of the criticism because we might have felt a little overwhelmed by the criticism that was dished out to the "funnier" Twentysomething (Lets face it is far funnier than Katherine Lynch).

So are these comedians unfunny and racist, lacking any kind of development of their jokes.

I know both have already been discussed here on boards but just to put it into a wider context.

I also note that Rodge and Podge seem to be slipping into this, at once they where a funny act imitating to Batchelor Farmers but now the seem happy with their brand of humour.

While I amn't a fan of David Brent (from the Office) I understand that ultimately the joke is on him.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=MEDIA+AND+MARKETING-qqqs=mediaandmarketing-qqqid=37200-qqqx=1.asp

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/racism-in-rte-1517373.html

K4t

They should have axed both of them and show re-runs of Bachelor's Walk imo.

Tipsy Mac

I'd find the comedians more racist if they didn't mention everyone in their jokes.

Elmo

I don't know if they do. I think Kathrine Lynch comes across as someone who thinks she is above all of these people. Maybe it is just that she is really really unfunny.

Wheels

I hated Katherine Lynch's first series but I am actually really enjoying her current one. I don't think she's particularly racist in any of her sketches, if anything she's poking fun at the Irish and their culture.

The girl that only goes after foreign men is spot on, I've met girls like that obviously not that extreme but that's what makes it funny, its a caricature of a certain section. The Nigerian scam artist was well done, again, its not as if people like that don't exist, and in the end the Irish character ended up doing the exact same thing. So who was the racism aimed at there?

Bernie Walsh has been toned down since the pilot and indeed Katherine's stand up shows which she features. Again, she's caricature, no one actually believes she's real. So what's the harm?

studiorat

She didn't put in a gay stereo-types in, funny that...

Elmo

The Nigerian scam artist was well done, again, its not as if people like that don't exist, and in the end the Irish character ended up doing the exact same thing.

I don't see how that isn't racist. Sorry maybe I am taking her too seriously. But she is putting out a)A stereotype of foreigners and b) a stereotype of a Northsider, and this stereotype has built up over the last number of years.

One character is a "typical" country woman, the next a typical "Northsider", a typical "Southsider" and then a "typical" traveler.

I found the blacked up face offensive.

I think it is too crude not to be offensive and that is where the line is and she has crossed. IMO.

podge018

So much wrongness in this thread.
There's no Northsider.
There was no blacked up face.
There is a stereotypical 'gay' lady footballer.

studiorat

podge018 wrote: »

There is a stereotypical 'gay' lady footballer.

Didn't get that at all so...

Robbo

Top Tip: Claim to be postmodern and then you can "ironically" lift jokes straight from Bernard Manning and not be racist.

If you pretend to be "challenging people's attitudes" and railing against political correctness, you could probably sneak a sketch show past a commissioning editor where you find a black family, set up hidden cameras outside their house and light a cross.

More seriously, that Katherine Lynch show is about 8-10 one line gags (mostly obvious like throwing the word Hiace and caravan about in place of other words) stretched out to a half hour show. Lowest common denominator stuff really and symptomatic of recent RTE comedy commissions; done on the cheap with no emphasis on refining it or having an experienced script editor.

Tommy Tiernan's Late Late appearance was just embarrassing. Once he was the most talented Irish comic of recent times with a great use of language and narrative. Now he just leaps and jumps up and down, using cheap controversy to sell his latest DVD and following Vicar St residency, year after year.

I remember once he had ambition and tried to make it outside Ireland. Now he's reduced to this treadmill and I was earnestly expecting him to start pulling up his eyes, bowing and saying "Ah so" during his selection box of racial stereotypes on the Late Late Show.

Elmo

So much wrongness in this thread.
There's no Northsider.
There was no blacked up face.
There is a stereotypical 'gay' lady footballer.

The Northsider is the blacked up face, the girl had a black up face while trying to get people to invest their savings in a "Nigerian Bank".

During the sketch I was trying to figure out was she just wearing to much fake tan but looking at it more closely and when she was on the street she was going around like a ministrial.

podge018

Oh you mean the woman from Tallaght, on the southside? Who's stereotyping now eh?

Elmo

Oh you mean the woman from Tallaght, on the southside? Who's stereotyping now eh?

LOL yeah I just read that now. But Tallaght is the northside of the southside it still is very sterotypical dublin.

Just not very funny,.

todolist

Lighten up people.Have a laugh and stop looking for offense in everything.I'm sick of this PC bull****.

studiorat

I dunno about PC bull. But it's the lowest common denominator. Pure sh1te really. un-PC or not

cooperguy

studiorat wrote: »

I dunno about PC bull. But it's the lowest common denominator. Pure sh1te really. un-PC or not

Then dont watch it. I dont find it particullarly good either. If RTE was to try and broadcast all its programes to satisfy everyone then they would end up satisfying nobody. You are not the target of this show. The shows you watch are not liked by other people!

hot fuss

cooperguy wrote: »

Then dont watch it. I dont find it particullarly good either. If RTE was to try and broadcast all its programes to satisfy everyone then they would end up satisfying nobody. You are not the target of this show. The shows you watch are not liked by other people!

Nail on head! If you don't like it/find it offensive, don't watch it. It's as simple as that. Remote controls are there for a reason. This thread is similar to the media circus over the Brand/Ross scandal last week and the thousands of complaints made to the BBC by people who didn't even listen to the show in the first place!

Wheels

Elmo wrote: »

LOL yeah I just read that now. But Tallaght is the northside of the southside it still is very sterotypical dublin.

Just not very funny,.

But stereotyping and racism aren't the same thing. She's not protraying all the forenigers as criminals? The Spanish guy wasn't. The blacked up face is fake tan done badly. I think you're missing the point of the joke which is that she's basically mad for large, foreign c*ck. She's stereotyping them herself.

Would you prefer if she'd shown a number of Nigerian/Spanish men so that they were fairly represented? I think given the that she show is called WonderWomen it suggests these aren't typical Irish women...

As for the lesbian, she's a character. Her mother is also a country woman... It's not saying all country women who play GAA are lesbians. The GAA team she trains kept suggesting she was a lesbian...

I'm slightly confused as to why you've taken such offense.

anotherlostie

I laughed at the notion that anyone would NOT notice that Liz Hurley was a closet lesbian.

The "Liz likes fish" sign above her head in the dressing room, the tackle to get on the pitch to apply Deep Heat to one of the girls, just two of several clues.

podge018

I do like fish, I like sausages, ...................... I like beef..

....curtains!

Who said curtains? When I said beef someone said curtains, who was it? What good would they be, sure they'd go off.

studiorat

cooperguy wrote: »

If RTE was to try and broadcast all its programes to satisfy everyone then they would end up satisfying nobody. You are not the target of this show. The shows you watch are not liked by other people! made by RTE

It takes a little more than this to offend me, but... The thing was thrown together. Old hat at this stage, a typical RTE commission, take the usual character sketches (Killinaskully) and "undercover" set-up shots (Jake Stephens etc...) and re-hash it with a few gift grub one liners thrown in for good measure.

elshambo

My biggest problem with RTE's comedy output over the last few years is the way they are discriminating against people with a sense of humour

Elmo

Sorry I just want to say it isn't about the PC bull****. Actually I get annoyed that **** is starred out on boards because it may cause offence.

There are two things about Kathrine Lynch's Wonder Women. The first is that it really isn't funny and the second is that this unfunny piece of work ends up coming across as a bit racist. Even if she is trying to slag everyone.

Tommy Teiran's comedy is also the same, It isn't that Tommy is a racist but his lack of self-censorship causes unfunny jokes and stereotypes.

When Tommy Tiernan offend people with his joke about being in mass and the big rusty nail going into Jesus hand. It was very very funny and people where very very sensitive about it, too sensitive. That story is funny because it is a story.

Perhaps Wonderwomen isn't funny and that is my main issue with it but I do think she had more Tan on trying to get people to sign up for the "Nigerian Bank" then she did for the cleaning service she was trying to sell or when she was in her flat.

Lumbarda

Very good article on this by Fintan O'Toole in last Thursday's Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1030/1225303610588.html

So-called "Humour" can be a very effective and dangerous weapon in propagating, promoting and reinforcing cultural stereotypes, prejudice and racism.

Knowing that broadcasters are so careful not to offend certain (more powerful) sectors of society, I'm completely shocked to see how blithely RTE disregards and even promotes discrimination against the more vulnerable sectors of that same society e.g. travellers and immigrants.

todolist

Fintan O'Toole,he's a barell of laughs.Why do the intellectuals have to analyze everything.Bloody boring nonsense.

Elmo

Fintan O'Toole,he's a barell of laughs.Why do the intellectuals have to analyze everything.Bloody boring nonsense.

True. But I don't think I am taking this too seriously. I mean most things would pass me by. Bernard Manning did slag off everyone but the English, if he had put a couple of English men jokes would his comedy be okay?

To me it is a case of bad stereotyping, bad scripting and bad comedy. As I have said this makes it come across as racist. I am sure Katherine Lynch has plenty of Traveling Friends. But her style of comedy doesn't work and too me often she is playing characters that don't pan out as realistic or even satirical.

podge018

You lads need to get over youselves and have a relax. Just completely forget about Katherine Lynch and her wonderwomen, put them right out of your head. Go have a bath at 10pm tonight. Don't go into threads about the show, why cause yourself such heartache?

Elmo

podge018 wrote: »

You lads need to get over youselves and have a relax. Just completely forget about Katherine Lynch and her wonderwomen, put them right out of your head. Go have a bath at 10pm tonight. Don't go into threads about the show, why cause yourself such heartache?

There is no heartache about it (I have a remote control, I only saw it because I was flicking). I am just wondering how people feel about this show and Tommy Teirnan after the firing of Rusell Brand by the BBC. I thought that was OTT (the BBC firing russel brand not russel brand).

I just think that this brand of comedy is also OTT. It isn't my cup of tea. But also I find it truly degrading and which hasn't got an ounce of originality.

I am still unsure as to weather people here like this show and why they feel its not discriminatory.

I can't see RTE renewing the show next year.

raven136

o'toole is no funny man but the larry david example is very true.He tackles all these same issues but is very funny and the joke is on him,not by him on others.

Its a thin line.

Is sarah silverman racist or making fun or racists?

asdasd

So-called "Humour" can be a very effective and dangerous weapon in propagating, promoting and reinforcing cultural stereotypes, prejudice and racism.

Come in from Ethnic Studies class did ya?

Knowing that broadcasters are so careful not to offend certain (more powerful) sectors of society, I'm completely shocked to see how blithely RTE disregards

Everybody seems to get it on the chin. travellers far from being "powerless" have vast amounts of powerful groups, NGOs, worthies, priests and luvlies looking out for them, unlike poor old cubicilised moi. And they are well capable of looking after themselves.

immigrants have a fair few NGOs, worthie, priests and luvlies on their side too,unlike poor old cubicilised moi and toi. What you want is a comedy show which makes fun of the Irish, and its sterotypical groups ( some of which - the image of stupid culchies etc. we have taken from colonialism, and some from real life) . **** that. Nigerians tend to do email scams. Not all, but it is worth a comedy sketch.

Tiernan is quite rightly taking on the sacred taboos.

asdasd

the firing of Rusell Brand by the BBC

Brand was harrassing an actual guy. On the phone. The difference would be between an ethnic joke and harrassing somebody in the audiance ( like Michael Richards did).

Elmo

asdasd wrote: »

Come in from Ethnic Studies class did ya?



Everybody seems to get it on the chin. travellers far from being "powerless" have vast amounts of powerful groups, NGOs, worthies, priests and luvlies looking out for them, unlike poor old cubicilised moi. And they are well capable of looking after themselves.

immigrants have a fair few NGOs, worthie, priests and luvlies on their side too,unlike poor old cubicilised moi and toi. What you want is a comedy show which makes fun of the Irish, and its sterotypical groups ( some of which - the image of stupid culchies etc. we have taken from colonialism, and some from real life) . **** that. Nigerians tend to do email scams. Not all, but it is worth a comedy sketch.

Tiernan is quite rightly taking on the sacred taboos.

Please get over yourself. You are white, possible catholic and possible Irish. I actually also find Katherine Lynch quite offencive to the Irish themselves.

No one on these boards ever suggested that the people characterised by Katherine Lynch where powerless.

And they aren't sacred taboos. Just in the same way as Manning wasn't taking on sacred taboos.

Brand was harrassing an actual guy. On the phone.

Whom he thought would have a sense of humour.

I wonder how many of the Nigerian Banking scams come from Nigeria.

asdasd

Please get over yourself. You are white, possible catholic and possible Irish

Lots of possibles there. ( All true. Except white. Not white. Irish.)

Just in the same way as Manning wasn't taking on sacred taboos.

Around the time Manning was sticking it to us possible catholic whites there was no PC movement in britain, no givernment anti-racist quangos etc. protecting Irish sensibilites. Far from it. So he was going with the tide, not against it.

Elmo

asdasd wrote: »

Lots of possibles there. ( All true. Except white. Not white. Irish.)



Around the time Manning was sticking it to us possible catholic whites there was no PC movement in britain, no givernment anti-racist quangos etc. protecting Irish sensibilites. Far from it. So he was going with the tide, not against it.

So he would be okay now that he is going against the tide, he was ahead of his time.

People where racist towards travelers long before traveler groups. They must have been right back then.

I did mean to put possibly before white. sorry.

asdasd

People where racist towards travelers long before traveler groups. They must have been right back then.

I dont think the travelers are a race, in the first case. And yes I dont think Tiernan would have been so funny in 1960's , and probably wouldnt do it wre he around then. Whenever elites make taboos, people break taboos, or the breaking of taboos is somewhat funny ( although it is never that funny).

So he would be okay now that he is going against the tide, he was ahead of his time.

In general there is neither any racism toward irish in britains, nor any anti-racist elite groups defending the Irish pre-emptively from humour. so it would not be taboo breaking.

In neither case would I care. The real problem with ethnic humour is that it is dull.

Elmo

asdasd wrote: »

I dont think the travelers are a race, in the first case. And yes I dont think Tiernan would have been so funny in 1960's , and probably wouldnt do it wre he around then. Whenever elites make taboos, people break taboos, or the breaking of taboos is somewhat funny ( although it is never that funny).



In general there is neither any racism toward irish in britains, nor any anti-racist elite groups defending the Irish pre-emptively from humour. so it would not be taboo breaking.

In neither case would I care. The real problem with ethnic humour is that it is dull.

So what do you think of the show. To me it is ethnic humour.

The British attitude has changed in the last number of years towards the Irish.

I wouldn't consider the Travelling community a race either, so racism is prehpas the wrong word to use, discrimination.

I think to do an Irish man joke wouldn't go down well regardless of if it was a taboo. I was once called a drunk over the phone by some American women (long story) I was offended.

I think Tommy can be funny, I just think sometimes he gets it wrong and goes OTT. The joke about the flies and the man selling him the motor cycle weren't in the best taste and didn't break any taboos IMO.

Dave!

Did you laugh at Father Ted? Then shut up

Elmo

Did you laugh at Father Ted? Then shut up

Did Father Ted slag off the Irish???? While I don't think it is a very good comedy I wasn't insulted by it and I didn't think it insulted anyone. Yes I did laugh but then it was far funnier then Katherine Lynch.

Again if you like Katherine Lynch let me know I don't think it is funny.

Dave!

I'm sure some sensitive priests were offended by it!

I haven't seen any Katherine Lynch so dunno... I'm not a big Tommy Tiernan fan generally, but I don't find him offensive really. I'm sure he takes the p*ss out of everybody, but he's a f*cking comedian, that's his job. If people get offended by it then they're too sensitive and need to get over it. Perhaps if he called around to their house with a video camera and abused them, then put it on his new DVD, then I'd have sympathy.

Elmo

Dave! wrote: »

I'm sure some sensitive priests were offended by it!

It didn't actually, It could have been far worst IMO. It is a basic sitcom set up , just the 3 characters are priests.

Give Kathrine Lynch ago you might like it.

Tuars

These comedians who think they're pushing boundaries and challenging sacred cows think that being offensive is the same as being subversive. It's not.

Go back to Bill Hicks to see the difference. Hicks had a philosophy. Everything he did had a purpose and the target of his bile was never the weak and those with no voice, it was human stupidity and the evil of the powers that be.

Tommy Tiernan comes across as a bit of a bully, he's the court jester for the establishment. He's a bit of a coward too, he wouldn't call Pat Kenny a robot to his face.

He reminds me of the Freebird heckler at that Bill Hicks gig (youtube). Hicks response to the heckler is how I feel about alot of the comedy thrown out these days.

studiorat

Tuars wrote: »

These comedians who think they're pushing boundaries and challenging sacred cows think that being offensive is the same as being subversive. It's not.

That's the crux of it there IMO. They aren't really saying anything, so why use all "edgy" characters.

Personally I'd shove "Katie French - The Musical" down their throats and see did I get on the Late Late...

norbert64

Oliver Callan doing an impression of Tiernan on The Late Late
http://www.rte.ie/tv/latelate/

Sherifu

You can't beat a bit of Tommy Cooper.

studiorat

norbert64 wrote: »

Oliver Callan doing an impression of Tiernan on The Late Late
http://www.rte.ie/tv/latelate/

Saw that, glad I missed Tiernan on the late late.