English Pronunciations

The Raven.

I have opened a new thread for this discussion as it was off-topic in the Hallowe’en thread.

The Raven. wrote: »

It’s also quite common in America: Shopping ‘Moll’ instead of ‘Mall’.

monkeyfudge wrote: »

That's the correct way to say it...

I wish I hadn’t used this example as it has gotten me in hot water!! OK Munkeyfudge, I stand corrected, but only up to a point. I lived in London for many years and never once heard the word ‘mall’ pronounced ‘moll’ by any English person. The street named ‘The Mall’ in St. James’s Park, London is NEVER pronounced any other way than ‘Mal’ as in ‘pal’. The same goes for ‘Pall-mall’. The first time I heard ‘moll’ was from my American friends. I just assumed that it was an American way of saying it.

But surprisingly, The Oxford English Dictionary, published 1964, gives the following:

Mall: (mawl), a sheltered walk as promenade.
Pall-mall: (Pel-Mel), game in which ball was driven through iron ring suspended in long alley. Pall-Mall: a street in London, developed from such an alley.

However, according to Chamber’s Twentieth Century Dictionary, published 1901:

Mall: (mel, or mal), a level shaded walk: a public walk.
Mall: (mawl, or mal), large wooded beetle or hammer.
Pall-mall: (pel-mel), an old game, in which a ball was driven through an iron ring with a mallet: an alley where the game used to be played, hence the street in London.

The term ‘shopping mall’ is rarely used in London. These places are referred to as either ‘shopping arcades’ or ‘shopping centres’.

monkeyfudge wrote: »

you don't say Hal when you mean Hall... why would you say Mal instead of Mall?

Sam Kade wrote: »

So would you call a ball a bal and you would say cal instead of call.

Things are a bit more complicated than that in the English language, as Doc has already pointed out in the thread, ‘Crazy English’:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055403613

Here’s another example of the remarkable intricacies of the English pronunciations. It is the poem entitled The Chaos by George Nolst Trenité. It is also known as This Phonetic Labyrinth.

http://www.madore.org/~david/misc/english-pronunciation.html

FlutterinBantam

What exactly is your point Sir??

The Raven.

I thought my post made it very clear. I went to a lot of trouble here to explain my experience regarding the confusion in relation to the English v. American pronunciation of the term ‘Mall’, in response to post 8 and 9 on the ‘Pronouncing Halloween’ thread. I started a new thread so as not to go off topic. I was also pointing out that there are many variations in English pronunciations even though the words, or part of the words, are spelt the same. I would have thought this was obvious to most people, but according to post 8 and 9 the argument appears to differ. Does that explain it ?

FlutterinBantam

You are mixing up language with pronunciation.

Of course certain words will be pronounced differently in different countries.

Also certain vowels eg "u" .

Doesn't mean one is wrong and the other is correct.

The Raven.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

FlutterinBantam

Has me beat buddy, i give up, I'm a bit tired,what he fook is your point??