Lack of railway related posts

Judgement Day

Why is there such a lack of postings regarding rail transport on Boards.ie ? Nearly all postings relate to road projects....yawn, yawn, yawn!!

Even IRN and Platform 5/Rail Users Ireland message boards have died in recent months. Where there is any discussion at all it is usually completely detached from reality and relates to bullhead rail versus flat bottom, the number of light bulbs on a 201 class locomotive or some other anorak inspired debate. For instance nothing on any three boards has been raised about the virtual abandonment of the Irish Rail Fastrack service since the 1st October - except by this poster and nobody will engage me on it. Is it because like the real railway all 'so-called' railway enthusiasts are only interested in engineering aspects of rail operation rather than traffic development?

Somebody prove me wrong - please!

Amtmann

Feel free to jump in here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055408566 post 6

BluntGuy

Sorry 'bout that!

The only rail projects I'm particularly interested in at the moment are Interconnector and Metro North.

Roads just seem to be the big thing in transport at the moment...

D.L.R.

They're currently building at least 6 new motorways, upgrading a couple, and countless other roads under construction.

How many new rail lines are being laid? Not including reopening of old, slow ones? Kildare rail project is about it sadly. And that doesn't even make it to Heuston!

Oh to have a high speed rail network, quad-track throughout Dublin and a proper metro

think I'll buy a car actually.

BluntGuy

D.L.R. wrote: »

They're currently building at least 6 new motorways, upgrading a couple, and countless other roads under construction.

How many new rail lines are being laid? Not including reopening of old, slow ones? Kildare rail project is about it sadly. And that doesn't even make it to Heuston!

Oh to have a high speed rail network, quad-track throughout Dublin and a proper metro

think I'll buy a car actually.

They'll need that eventually if trains are to be any competitions for buses on the new inter-urbans.

The new trains need to go at their maximum speed (160 km/h)...

Run_to_da_hills

I posted a heap of railway related posts. IE AEC rail cars, mixed generation Dart sets, Metropolitan Vickers locomotives, Ghost train scandals, Steam boiler explosion risks etc etc.

bk

As I have argued for a long time now, intercity rail is going to suffer horribly as all the interurban motorway projects come on line.

Two days ago I drove Cork to Dublin in 3 and a half hours and yesterday Dublin to Ikea in Belfast in about 2 and a half hours and the motorways aren't even complete.

Once all the motorways are complete and especially if the bus companies lay on real direct non stop bus services, intercity services are going to be in big trouble.

Unless we start looking at high speed rail services between the cities, then the future of rail in Ireland is all about commuter services and the likes of Metro North and Dart Underground.

As for the death of Fastrack, I'm not surprised at all and I see it as just an extension of the death of rail freight in Ireland. I mean you need a van to take the mail to the station and another van to take it off the train to bring it to it's destination, then you might as well use a van all the way, specially with the new MIU's, rail just can't compete.

weehamster

Why is there such a lack of postings regarding rail transport on Boards.ie ? Nearly all postings relate to road projects....yawn, yawn, yawn!!
Even IRN and Platform 5/Rail Users Ireland message boards have died in recent months. Where there is any discussion at all it is usually completely detached from reality and relates to bullhead rail versus flat bottom, the number of light bulbs on a 201 class locomotive or some other anorak inspired debate. For instance nothing on any three boards has been raised about the virtual abandonment of the Irish Rail Fastrack service since the 1st October - except by this poster and nobody will engage me on it. Is it because like the real railway all 'so-called' railway enthusiasts are only interested in engineering aspects of rail operation rather than traffic development?

Somebody prove me wrong - please!

Ok. Firstly, get a grip. :cool:

IRN is mainly about people who are have an shared interest in railways, particularly about the trains and the details of how they operate, though not exclusively. I'm surprised that they won't discuss about Fastrack, especially when they do discuss about the rail freight, but then again it's more about the trains. Now some may consider IRN to be a bit anoraky, but that is their interest and clearly you are not as interested in the details as they are.

I'm not sure who platform 5 are so I can't talk about them?

As for Rail Users Ireland, well they are a group who are about improving rail service for the rail user, i.e. the commuter? So all they are interested in is what is planned on improving this as well as keeping a close eye on the current services (or lack of in many cases) being offered to the user. So if little is actually happening in the real world, it is safe to say that little would be discussed. And last time I checked they don't talk about 201 class locomotive or some other anorak inspired debate and would only talk about a rail courier service that has nothing to do with commuting very briefly

As for Boards.ie, well I can safely say that rail is discussed here on a regular basis. Now yes roads are discussed more that rail, but considering that Boards.ie represents the general public and is a much larger board than RUI/IRN put together, (which are both about very specific subjects) and considering how much roads effects Boards.ie users daily lives compared to rail, its really no surprise there. But like everyone else here, you are free to bring up any topic about Commuting & Transport anytime.

Now, one of the topics you wish to discuss is about Irish Rail's Fastrack. This is about a courier service. In fact I didn't even realise that Fastrack was still operating. I though that service stopped in the 90's so I know absolutely nothing about this courier service nor do I have any interest in it. But there will be someone here who does so please be patient.

BrianD

bk wrote: »

As I have argued for a long time now, intercity rail is going to suffer horribly as all the interurban motorway projects come on line.

Two days ago I drove Cork to Dublin in 3 and a half hours and yesterday Dublin to Ikea in Belfast in about 2 and a half hours and the motorways aren't even complete.

Once all the motorways are complete and especially if the bus companies lay on real direct non stop bus services, intercity services are going to be in big trouble.

Unless we start looking at high speed rail services between the cities, then the future of rail in Ireland is all about commuter services and the likes of Metro North and Dart Underground.

As for the death of Fastrack, I'm not surprised at all and I see it as just an extension of the death of rail freight in Ireland. I mean you need a van to take the mail to the station and another van to take it off the train to bring it to it's destination, then you might as well use a van all the way, specially with the new MIU's, rail just can't compete.

That all depends on one thing the price of a barrell of oil. There are folks that reckon that in ten years time you won't be able to afford to use our wonderful motorways that we waited so long for. So maybe there's still some steam in the old railways.

Did you obey the speed limit on both your journeys?

Judgement Day

bk wrote: »

As I have argued for a long time now, intercity rail is going to suffer horribly as all the interurban motorway projects come on line.

Two days ago I drove Cork to Dublin in 3 and a half hours and yesterday Dublin to Ikea in Belfast in about 2 and a half hours and the motorways aren't even complete.

Once all the motorways are complete and especially if the bus companies lay on real direct non stop bus services, intercity services are going to be in big trouble.

Unless we start looking at high speed rail services between the cities, then the future of rail in Ireland is all about commuter services and the likes of Metro North and Dart Underground.

As for the death of Fastrack, I'm not surprised at all and I see it as just an extension of the death of rail freight in Ireland. I mean you need a van to take the mail to the station and another van to take it off the train to bring it to it's destination, then you might as well use a van all the way, specially with the new MIU's, rail just can't compete.

I couldn't agree with you more - Intercity rail travel is going to be in real trouble when the inter-urban road network is completed. Over priced, over engineered trains with poor/non-existent catering and, in many cases slower journey times than 10 years ago but Irish Rail have answers to all these criticisms.

The decline in Fastrack was far from inevitable and has far more to do with massive overpricing, crap marketing and latterly the diversion of much of the remaining traffic to private ROAD couriers - only in Ireland!

Since October 1st Fastrack has been completely withdrawn on several routes including the Dublin/Rosslare line with which I am very familiar. Here the traffic had already been diverted to a private courier and his services have now been dispensed with. What many people may not be aware is that since the doing away with train guards on railcars even internal mail (staff notices, weekly operating circulars and the outrageous IE Rail Brief staff magazine have been dealt with by private road couriers!) No alternative system for internal mail has been put in place and IE management now rely on brow beating railcar drivers into handling internal mail but many, legitimately, refuse to do so - what a shambles!

The point which many contributors seem to miss is that to justify heavy investment in rail services a total service should be provided to make maximum return. 20 Euros to send a letter from Wexford to Dublin by train -is it any wonder Fastrack was heading over the abyss? It does not follow that the concept of small parcel traffic by rail is per se a non-viable product. The railway should be looked upon as a conveyor system running empty or full and obviously better full! There was no incentive for station staff to drum up more business and now with the demise of Fastrack those same staff get paid the same wages and have less work to do. Signalmen on the DSER now reduced to lowly depotmen have little to do all day except twiddle their thumbs and keep an eye out for roving local management trying to hand out A forms and get them sacked for trivial offences. No private company could or would act in the ridiculous way that CIE/IE do, but they regard the public purse as bottomless! No sign of any political will to rein them in either.

bk

BrianD wrote: »

That all depends on one thing the price of a barrell of oil. There are folks that reckon that in ten years time you won't be able to afford to use our wonderful motorways that we waited so long for. So maybe there's still some steam in the old railways.

Did you obey the speed limit on both your journeys?

Honestly for the most part yes, I was surprised too, off peak hours though.

As for the oil, it wont effect bus journeys so much, in fact it will likely make them more popular.

Also I'm not sure we are anywhere near peak oil yet, I'm starting to think it has a lot to do with people just wanting to talk up the price of oil, as we can now see since it has gone from €147 a barrel to €60 in the space of just a few months.

Also I'm confident that we will start to see technological solutions to the problem, just look at the examples of Israel and Australia who have plans to build massive car charging networks throughout their countries.

IRISH RAIL

staff notices, weekly operating circulars and the outrageous IE Rail Brief staff magazine have been dealt with by private road couriers!)

I was ignoring this till I seen that
whats your problem with railbrief ? its a good slice into some interesting internal issues and gives people a bit of recognition.
and what has fastrack got to do with the fact its transported from the printers to IE staff via road courier?
Fastrack is a moneypit plain and simple when there is so much point to point competion it makes no scence to run. I care about bulk frieght and its demise which is sad especially for the enviroment and rta statistics 40 trucks is equal to one train ( come on biffo work it out here the numbers speak for themselves ) but when you have a government that wants the passengers to run on time there isnt much room for the cargo massive pr stunt thats worthy of conspricy theories.

as for your original point about the lack of rail related threads ~
it is what people put into it.
ie people have to start a thread and others respond if no one wants to talk about the rail network who are any of us to force them to. maybe theres not that much wrong, and any anything that is wrong has been done to death.
real Irish imo complaining about the lack of threads on a forum where people input into it, like a man who sits at the bus stop and doesnt put his hand out then complains as to why they arent stopping.

IRISH RAIL

also bk most of Israels railways run right between the lanes on a motorway as the country isnt that big the network resembles a more modern form of dart with double deck emu`s and high speed lines that way when people are driving and the train whips past there more inclined to take the train next time. all in all a very well run system.

bk

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

also bk most of Israels railways run right between the lanes on a motorway as the country isnt that big the network resembles a more modern form of dart with double deck emu`s and high speed lines that way when people are driving and the train whips past there more inclined to take the train next time. all in all a very well run system.

I know, I've been there, very impressive.

It is a pity we didn't take the opportunity to build new high speed tracks along with the the interurban motorway network.

strassenwolf

I think there's no doubt that this used to be a more interesting board, for those of us who are genuinely interested in public transport, before the P11 guys decided to retreat into their cocoon. But that's not the only factor.

P11 originally had a rather entertaining "public relations" officer, who often appeared to go out of his way to do the opposite of what it said on the tin. (This person has since popped up on the board under a considerable number of guises though, interestingly enough, "Transport21 Fan" no longer seems to be one of them).

Despite this apparent handicap, many members (including well-informed committee members) of P11 made a considerable contribution to this board, and consequently an indirect contribution to the discussion of rail transport projects among the wider community, who (to a large extent) are not even aware of that organisation's existence. (or, indeed, of the existence of boards.ie)

For a number of reasons, which would perhaps be best explained by Rail users Ireland (P11 in its current form), limited access to their new messageboard was followed (albeit sometime later) by an almost complete absence from the world of boards.ie, with a consequent reduction in the discussion of the opinions of Rail users Ireland on boards.ie and, indirectly, in the "outside" world. An error, I think.

But the P11 thing is minor, when compared to the approach to transport planning in Dublin. I'd say many of us on the board have been to public consultations about the various track-based transport projects which are planned for Dublin, to chip in our little bit. It should now be clear - that these consultations are, to a large extent, window-dressing. In other words, it is necessary to have them for legal purposes, but in fact the major decisions are made without recourse to consultation. (Perhaps this is as it should be, assuming that there is sufficient expertise behind the decision - I don't know).

We can see this in a number of cases. The metro route, for example. Three routes presented, none of them chosen. Instead, a hybrid route is selected which is then, per se, never subjected to a public consultation by the citizens of the city. (the people living along sections of the hybrid route are consulted, but that is not quite the same thing, given that we are dealing with a project which does not just have an impact along its route).

It's worth remembering that this hybrid route has not been the subject of any public consultation which involves all the citizens of the city, even though it will have an effect on many, if not indeed most.

The LUAS link-up. In this case, five routes were presented to the public. None of them were chosen. Instead, (yes, you've guessed it) a hybrid route was chosen, which was then, per se, never subjected to a public consultation by the citizens of the city.

Again, worth noting that this route has never been the subject of any public consultation, or any attempt to elicit the views of the general Dublin public about its merits.

I'd be surprised if other people on the board do not feel, as I emphatically do, that the proposals which will actually make it onto the city's drawing board, are not subject to some form of proper public scrutiny, prior to being rubber-stamped by the authorities.

Perhaps this might help to explain some of the reason for the lack of interesting and informative discussion about track-based transport on the board.

IRISH RAIL

thats a very interesting point about rui / p11

also the metro north points out the complete uselessness of the rpa and how public transport is governed in ireland

the government wants cut backs that should be the first to go.
and why are veolia making money off us it should be state run the luas come on cowen it would be feckin easy if you looked thru your eyes and not the slit in a brown envelope

Overheal

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

also bk most of Israels railways run right between the lanes on a motorway as the country isnt that big the network resembles a more modern form of dart with double deck emu`s and high speed lines that way when people are driving and the train whips past there more inclined to take the train next time. all in all a very well run system.

Thats an interesting idea to say the least. Anything would be better than The US's system - total trash.

markpb

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

why are veolia making money off us it should be state run the luas come on cowen it would be feckin easy if you looked thru your eyes and not the slit in a brown envelope

Totally disagree with you there. The alternative is Irish Rail and from experience, Veiolia are a much better operator. I know IR have infrastructural problems that luas doesn't but they also have rude or useless staff, poor timetables, closed ticket offices (during the day) and zero communication or apologies when something goes wrong.

During the last green line outrage, there were announcements on the platforms, announcements on the trams and staff at all the stops telling peoplle where to go. During the last dart outage, the staff at Clontarf rd pulled down the blind and watched tv. The displays and announcements on the trains were incorrect and there was nooone at HJ&D to tell people where to go. Shockingly bad company.

SeanW

Damn straight!

And this is exactly the kind of thing Rail Users Ireland is trying to change.

I'm not sure when was the last time the OP came to Rail Users Ireland forums but I can tell you that noone has ever asked how many lightbulbs are on a 201 locomotive and there has been no mention of things like rail profiles in a very long time. Most of the tech discussion that remains is limited to members only.

As for Irish Railway News, it's a trainspotters group! Getting into technical details and showcasing photo collections of locomotives is what the whole thing is about, they're upfront and honest about it, and I don't see why the OP has a problem with that. If the material it offers isn't to your taste, don't go there!

L1011

BrianD wrote: »

Did you obey the speed limit on both your journeys?

150 minutes Dublin to Ikea suggests that not only did he obey the speed limit, he was caught in traffic in Newry or Sprucefield...

KC61

Judgement Day wrote: »

Why is there such a lack of postings regarding rail transport on Boards.ie ? Nearly all postings relate to road projects....yawn, yawn, yawn!!

Even IRN and Platform 5/Rail Users Ireland message boards have died in recent months. Where there is any discussion at all it is usually completely detached from reality and relates to bullhead rail versus flat bottom, the number of light bulbs on a 201 class locomotive or some other anorak inspired debate. For instance nothing on any three boards has been raised about the virtual abandonment of the Irish Rail Fastrack service since the 1st October - except by this poster and nobody will engage me on it. Is it because like the real railway all 'so-called' railway enthusiasts are only interested in engineering aspects of rail operation rather than traffic development?

Somebody prove me wrong - please!

Different people have different interests.

Whilst you have a particular interest in the Fastrack service, others are more interested in the railway infrastructure, customer service (or the lack of it), service patterns and scheduling, locomotives/rolling stock developments, car parkiong facilities, engineering etc.

Just looking across the three websites, Irish Railway News, Rail Users Ireland and here, there have been numerous posts on all of these topics of late, particularly:

• The new pay & display system;
• Photo updates of the work on the Western Rail Corridor, KRP and Midleton projects;
• Discussions about the likelihood of the new timetable being deferred (now confirmed);
• The impact of cost cutting requirements from government on services both in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland;
• Wifi;
• New bicycle racking;
• New rolling stock orders, deliveries, introduction into service etc.

Just because these topics do not necessarily match your interests does not mean that railways are not being discussed! The fastrack service would (I'm afraid to say) probably be of marginal interest to most people on all three sites as it is not something used by the population at large, but more by businesses. I'm certainly not knocking your interest in it and your concerns about it.

Like most things in life there are a wide range of interests and I think that's healthy. Whether people are interested in the technical aspects of the railway operation or rather in the timetables or simple customer service issues is really down to the individual concerned, and I think that is something to be respected. We are all different and don't all have the same interests, and that's what makes life varied!

Regarding the fastrack operation, the reality is that the railway (for better or for worse but in line with Government policy) is focussing on the transport of passengers over freight and parcels. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that's a fact of life unfortunately.

Run_to_da_hills

I was reading in the papers that Iarnrod Eireann could possibly need up to 120 new Dart and Diesel commuter trains for the Dublin section of Transport 21.

If regional services drop significantly because of the inter urban motorways they could close down the mainline services altogether and redeploy the 22000's to commuter usage instead of purchasing new stock.

Those of us living in Dublin during the 70ies had to put up with mainline carriages on the suburban routes. In a recession we will just have to make do.

Judgement Day

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

thats a very interesting point about rui / p11

also the metro north points out the complete uselessness of the rpa and how public transport is governed in ireland

the government wants cut backs that should be the first to go.
and why are veolia making money off us it should be state run the luas come on cowen it would be feckin easy if you looked thru your eyes and not the slit in a brown envelope

I can't believe you really mean that last comment! Are you seriously suggesting that some appalling organisation like CIE would make a better job of operating Luas??? It is currently profitable - just how long would it take for CIE and its diabolical management to turn it into a gigantic loss maker?

Judgement Day

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

staff notices, weekly operating circulars and the outrageous IE Rail Brief staff magazine have been dealt with by private road couriers!)

I was ignoring this till I seen that
whats your problem with railbrief ? its a good slice into some interesting internal issues and gives people a bit of recognition.
and what has fastrack got to do with the fact its transported from the printers to IE staff via road courier?
Fastrack is a moneypit plain and simple when there is so much point to point competion it makes no scence to run. I care about bulk frieght and its demise which is sad especially for the enviroment and rta statistics 40 trucks is equal to one train ( come on biffo work it out here the numbers speak for themselves ) but when you have a government that wants the passengers to run on time there isnt much room for the cargo massive pr stunt thats worthy of conspricy theories.

as for your original point about the lack of rail related threads ~
it is what people put into it.
ie people have to start a thread and others respond if no one wants to talk about the rail network who are any of us to force them to. maybe theres not that much wrong, and any anything that is wrong has been done to death.
real Irish imo complaining about the lack of threads on a forum where people input into it, like a man who sits at the bus stop and doesnt put his hand out then complains as to why they arent stopping.

RAIL BRIEF - What's right about it would be more to the point? It is printed on 'increasingly' expensive paper - the September issue is almost on card it is such a heavy type of paper. Such a wasteful extravagance might be OK in a profitable private company but not one propped up by massive State subsidies. The contents (read mainly by enthusiasts) as most staff members are not interested in a management rag, are a distortion of reality. Most staff that I know on IE are only interested in one thing and that is getting the largest lump sum possible and getting the hell out of the company ASAP.

The latest issue contains a full page of complimentary letters from the public - how come Dick Fearn never passes on some of the many letters I have sent him? The rag is essentially a series of photo opportunities for Noel Dempsey (twice in Sept.issue) and John Lynch the woeful Chairman of CIE (4 times in Sept.issue) - the even more appalling Martin Cullen manages an appearance too. Truly a magazine for laying down and avoiding - too nauseating to read even in the smallest room!!:D:D

Judgement Day

Yes I am concerned about the demise of Fastrack but not just about it in itself - I see it as yet another retreat by CIE/IE from serving the public - making the railway even less relevant than it already is. A great many people never use the railway at all and believe that the country could survive without it - make it increasingly less relevant and they will be proved right. Todd Andrews once famously said that a fleet of lorries and a few Greyhound buses could handle CIE's traffic - was he right?

I have been interested/actively involved in Irish railways for more than 30 years so I don't need lectures from other members of this board about the merits of Platform 11/IRN - I am well aware of the situation.

I have many other concerns apart from Fastrack, such as the woeful Rail Gourmet catering, lack of 1st class accomodation, poorly thought out railcar designs etc.,etc all to do with the 'crumbling edge of quality' as BR's Sir Peter Parker once referred to it. :):)

IRISH RAIL

I have many other concerns apart from Fastrack, such as the woeful Rail Gourmet catering, lack of 1st class accomodation, poorly thought out railcar designs etc.,etc all to do with the 'crumbling edge of quality' as BR's Sir Peter Parker once referred to it. :):)

couldnt disagree on anything there

and for the poster about railbrief
while every type of magazine like that will inevitably be hijacked by the politians railbrief does have some stories about staff who have worked hard to achieve something thats there little thank you a bit of recognition, and of course the big payout should be any day soon now.

The Swordsman

MYOB wrote: »

150 minutes Dublin to Ikea suggests that not only did he obey the speed limit, he was caught in traffic in Newry or Sprucefield...

I did it on Monday (from Swords) in less than two hours, despite loads of roadworks just over the border.

It is only around 100 miles, most of which is motorway/dual carriageway.

BTW (not that it is anyone's here business) I kept to the speed limit.

bk

MYOB wrote: »

150 minutes Dublin to Ikea suggests that not only did he obey the speed limit, he was caught in traffic in Newry or Sprucefield...

Actually we got caught in a bit of a snow storm around Newry!!

Seriously it was weird, the temp suddenly dropped from about 4c to 0c and visibility quickly dropped due to the snow. Everyone slowed way down to about half the speed limit and rightly so.

KC61

Judgement Day wrote: »

RAIL BRIEF - What's right about it would be more to the point? It is printed on 'increasingly' expensive paper - the September issue is almost on card it is such a heavy type of paper. Such a wasteful extravagance might be OK in a profitable private company but not one propped up by massive State subsidies. The contents (read mainly by enthusiasts) as most staff members are not interested in a management rag, are a distortion of reality. Most staff that I know on IE are only interested in one thing and that is getting the largest lump sum possible and getting the hell out of the company ASAP.

The latest issue contains a full page of complimentary letters from the public - how come Dick Fearn never passes on some of the many letters I have sent him? The rag is essentially a series of photo opportunities for Noel Dempsey (twice in Sept.issue) and John Lynch the woeful Chairman of CIE (4 times in Sept.issue) - the even more appalling Martin Cullen manages an appearance too. Truly a magazine for laying down and avoiding - too nauseating to read even in the smallest room!!:D:D

This is an internal magazine for staff members - many companies do this sort of thing as a sort of an infomercial about the organisation.

I've never known any internal staff newsletter/magazine in any organisation that would contain samples of complaints - that sort of thing is usually handled at local level in a face to face meeting in most organisations in my experience. However, compliments tend to be shared around - this sort of document is a sort of motivational tool if you were to use management theory.

I haven't seen the document, so I can't comment on the specific contents, but it does sound like the standard stuff that you find in many of them.

KC61

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have been interested/actively involved in Irish railways for more than 30 years so I don't need lectures from other members of this board about the merits of Platform 11/IRN - I am well aware of the situation.

And I certainly wasn't trying to lecture you, merely pointing out that there have been quite a wide range of topics discussed online!

These things tend to go in troughs...wait a while and I'm sure that another major discussion point regarding the railways will arrive.

Nevyn

Judgement Day wrote: »

Why is there such a lack of postings regarding rail transport on Boards.ie ? Nearly all postings relate to road projects....yawn, yawn, yawn!!

What threads on the topics have you started ?

Cool Mo D

On the point about the motorways killing the railways, I'm not so sure. I don't know of anyone who has ready access to a car who takes the train regularly. There is some business travel, but whenever I'm on an intercity train, I mostly see students, families with children (usually young children that require constant attention), and old people. I think that intercity trains are not currently seen as an option at all for car drivers, so I don't think better roads will make much difference.

DWCommuter

Cool Mo D wrote: »

On the point about the motorways killing the railways, I'm not so sure. I don't know of anyone who has ready access to a car who takes the train regularly. There is some business travel, but whenever I'm on an intercity train, I mostly see students, families with children (usually young children that require constant attention), and old people. I think that intercity trains are not currently seen as an option at all for car drivers, so I don't think better roads will make much difference.

I'd disagree with that on the basis of international and historic trends. Since the 1940s railways have been competing with the threat posed by the motorway. The eventual introduction of HSTs (after the initial egofest by pioneering railway companies) was down to increased speeds on roads and nothing else. If we look at our closest neigbour, the UK, it was the building of the post war motorway network that prompted the widespread introduction of fast rail services to allow the railway a chance to compete with the car over long journies. Here in Ireland, even an antiquated rail network of the past was quicker than our antiquated road network. However our major national road routes will soon be up there with the most modern, while our rail network is no better than a railway in 1960s/70s mainland Europe. Yes, you heard it right, our rail network is only at the level, that other European railways were at in the 60s and 70s. This is the reality. Do not be fooled by Irish Rails spin about the most modern fleet in Europe, because thats about it. Journey times have been stagnant or lengthened during the so called "investment" years. I note you mentioned students above. Well, when these students can jump on an express bus that will be travelling on 120 kph motorways (even allowing for the ignored regulated speed) at a fraction of the rail price, I can see an exodus. I was a student once and I choose the more expensive train option, because the bus was on roads more suited to the 1950s than the late 80s early 90s. Then we have business people and those on the edge of decision. The threat of a motorway network to a poorly developed rail network is overwhelming. Of course some might say that Ireland is different, but then I heard that years ago about a property crash. Soft landing it was, back then. While we now know it has been a crash landing.

IIMII

Here's a question then. Is there anyway of increasing the number of trains through the city centre and speed? 35 minutes Clonsilla to Tara St is a bit of dawdle, and the shaggin train crawls for most of the journey

DWCommuter

Getting back to the OPs original point.

Ive noted references to P11/RUI throughout the thread, so I suppose its only fair that I comment. As a founding member and previous spokesperson (until November 2007) for that organisation, I'd like to clarify, as best I can, some points.

1. I'm not be confused with the other legendary;) founding member and supposed person that posted here under the name Transport21fan.
2. I believe that P11 influenced many railway debates, both here and on IRN. Some good and some bad. Unfortunetly as is the territory of lobbying/campaigning, not everyone will agree with you and some will be a tad envious of the exposure that goes with an organisation such as P11/RUI.
3. I myself was banned from here on a few ocassions because of P11 related issues. This lead to intermittment withdrawal of posts by other members and the ultimate decision to concentrate on our own board.
4. The "hidden" section of the RUI board has been a bone of contention to some people. Well its no big deal really. I advocated it on the basis of offering more to paid up members of the organisation. At the end of the day, funds have to be generated to keep things on the road. I did this to placate members who had a more detailed interest in railways than your average punter and to protect the board from becoming a "nerdy" and "trainspotter" type facility. I can't deny that original members of the org were from that background or at least something similar, be it engineering, planning etc.
5. P11 lead the way in promoting rail issues from a consumer point of view, devoid of bull****. Initially these were infrastructure issues and it wasn't long before customer service issues needed to be addressed.
6. In 2005 I took the stance that P11 needed to be "opened up" to the public in a transparent manner and should tackle customer service issues, as the infrastructure aspect was changing rapidly at Government level. That happened and a committee was formed. Since then AGMs are held annually and committee members are identifiable. The org is open to all.
7. Last year, I lead the charge for a name change to RUI, to reflect the change in direction towards aspects that effected rail customers. Shortly afterwards I resigned.

I am no longer a committee member, so I can't speak on behalf of them, but I would agree that the RUI board has been dead for months and this reflects on Boards.ie in railway terms. I can only assume that current committee members are unable to generate debate on the RUI site through specific, targeted, issues and in turn a docile media presence does little to generate rail debate. I don't subscribe to the assumption that things are quiet on the rail front. Personally I think its poor tactics on RUIs part. Thats just my opinion, so hold your horses. One only has to look at the RUI board to see how it has lost its edge over the last 12 months. Regular visitors cannot deny it. Hence the good old face off on rail issues between RUI, IRN and Boards is now just a distant memory. A sad loss as you'd be amazed who in authority actually took an interest in it.

Judgement Day

Jesus Derek - someone who actually agrees with what I stated in my OP i.e that the various message boards had died in recent months! I am banned from IRN ,as is anybody else who dares to speak their mind, or else I would try and stir things up a bit. IRN is like an online version of 'The Fossils' (sorry Irish Railway Record Society) where people go to keep warm in cyberspace. There are good photographic contributions but precious little else.

IIMII

That's gtrand but what's the story with walking pace from Clonsilla to Tara st??:)

Joking aside, I do think that things used to be a wee bit more informative online - shouldn't have banned the crayons

Point is that P11 started with the crayons to sort the system and transferred to narrow (rather than broad) commuter issues. One thing I know is that I can get a ****ty bus from Navan for €41.00 whatever (I'll never do that trust me, know matter how screwed up the left knee gets from driving 10kph) or I can drive from Navan and get a train from Clonsilla for €17 whatever per week and travel in some comfort without either getting deep vein tromboses from a bus or clutch leg from the car

Personally, I preferred P11 when it was infrastructural - it offer some form of hope that more than the mundane would be sorted. May it rest in peace. Ní bheidh a leithead ann arís. And the rows were great..

popebenny16

well as a current committee member of RUI you'd be shocked to hear that I dont agree with Derek, but there you go, that's life, innit?

as for Judgement day, I can only offer a song!!!

"Come on over to my place.... hey you!! We're having a party...."

I mean if boards and RUI are appallingly dead, please throw some suggestions into the ring.

I only posted because Most Haunted developed a fault. Spooky, eh?

also, the halloween style on boards tonight is scarily reminiscent of a cravens coach!!! :eek::eek::eek:

laters!!

Victor

Judgement Day wrote: »

Lack of railway related posts

Some of us have been out there trying to make a difference.

bk

Cool Mo D wrote: »

On the point about the motorways killing the railways, I'm not so sure. I don't know of anyone who has ready access to a car who takes the train regularly. There is some business travel, but whenever I'm on an intercity train, I mostly see students, families with children (usually young children that require constant attention), and old people. I think that intercity trains are not currently seen as an option at all for car drivers, so I don't think better roads will make much difference.

But the point you are missing is that the motorways will enable fast, efficient and most importantly cheap direct bus services, from multiple competitors both private and public and this will crucify the intercity services as the folk you mention above move over to bus based services on the new motorways.

As for RUI, I use to be a committee of a similar organisation, only for broadband and telecommunications issues, IrelandOffLine.

IOFFL had it's forum here on boards and never tried to create it's own forum and I think that was for the best. It meant that people with varying interests and not necessarily just BB, would drop by the IOFFL and BB forums to leave their feedback and have interesting discussions. I think this would far less likely to happen had we our own forum on a separate website and that it would have been equally quiet as the RUI forums.

DWCommuter

bk wrote: »

But the point you are missing is that the motorways will enable fast, efficient and most importantly cheap direct bus services, from multiple competitors both private and public and this will crucify the intercity services as the folk you mention above move over to bus based services on the new motorways.

As for RUI, I use to be a committee of a similar organisation, only for broadband and telecommunications issues, IrelandOffLine.

IOFFL had it's forum here on boards and never tried to create it's own forum and I think that was for the best. It meant that people with varying interests and not necessarily just BB, would drop by the IOFFL and BB forums to leave their feedback and have interesting discussions. I think this would far less likely to happen had we our own forum on a separate website and that it would have been equally quiet as the RUI forums.

While Popebenny may disagree with me in public, I'd say he's aware of the massive drop in activity and loss of regular users on the RUI board.

BK,
Its worth pointing out that RUIs board used to be a hot bed of activity. The sheer amount of posting that went on there over a period of years was huge and certainly justified a dedicated forum. Sadly it has all gone very quiet these days. As a member of the org I'd rather express my thoughts on the RUI forum, which I do, but to no avail. Being an ex committee member seems to afford you the badge of castaway. Last I'll say about it here.

Nostradamus

The reason this and especially the RUI boards are dead now is because they reflect the personalities of the majority of the people who post on them. Boring, arbitrary, mundane, conservative and pointless.

Say what you will about the old P11 - but the early bombastic P11 was once the headline story quoted by Ann Doyle on the 9 O'Clock News, the old "discredited" P11 was constantly invited to address major transport confs, Dail Commitees and were fighting off journalists for quotes. Think about it. That's wasn't by accident...

I'll admit it wasn't very respectable or nice at times, but it worked. The "entertaining" P11 was a minor sensation and achived pretty incredible things on tiny resources all things considered. If any one on this island can start and operate a rail lobby on the tiny resources P11 had and gain the same kind of profile then I'll take this comments back and I am sure Derek Wheeler will to.

Look at RUI now. I rest my case. I do however wish them the best, but sadly they are a classic example of what Einstein said when we stated that "you cannot fight a problem with the same level of conciousness which created it". The old P11 was after results and not to be patronised.

Frighten the bisto out of Polticians, IE and RPA managers you'll get's some results. More importantly, you do not have to be nice to them. We are the ones paying their wages. Not the other way around. Being nice to them will get you nowhere because the odds are stacked in their favour. They have the money, the power and the Government (and a disturbingly high number of brain-dead journalists) behind them - if you think they are going to do you a favour if you are nice to them you are living in dreamland. Same goes for IRN.

The truth will set you free.

BostonB

I've been getting the train from D.15 across to the southside for many many years. Other than a slight inscrease in frequency the sevice is the same as its always been. Same problems. In that time we've built the M50 the M1, the Luas etc. But that line is pretty much the same as its always been.

Kinda bored of talking about it now.

bk

DWCommuter wrote: »

Being an ex committee member seems to afford you the badge of castaway.

Nothing like that, being an active committee member of a completely voluntary organisation like IOFFL is really, really hard work. It takes up a great deal of free time and even money (to attend conferences, interviews, etc.) and it often feels like a thankless job (as you deal with the intransigence of government departments like Comreg and Dept of Comms over the years).

No one hardly ever remained a IOFFL committee member for more then two years as in the end you would just run out of steam.

I'm very proud to have played a small part in the success of IOFFL, while massive problems continue in the Irish BB market, trust me it would have been far, far worse, had IOFFL not existed.

Back on topic, all I'm saying is that it might inject some life back in RUI if they moved their forum onto boards.

BTW I'm of the opinion that rather then RUI, we should perhaps have a broader public transport users group, which would include rail, bus, walking, cycling, etc.