Probationary period

stagolee

Hi Folks,
Just got called in the office today along with all the other newish people in my department and allegedly most of the other departments too and told they were "extending" our probationary period by 5 months despite the fact that i have got a contract stating a 6 month probationary period and i have been working about 7 months there.
I did ask a few weeks ago for a letter confirming the end of my probationary period but i was told they dont give these out.
They want me to sign a piece of paper by friday agreeing to this "extension" and they have told me they are in no way unhappy with my work but it is being done with all recent employees due to economic conditions.
What do ye reckon, seems hooky to me, if i sign this thing then they can fire me without explanation at any time right?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Well if your contract stated a 6 month probation period and the six months expired, then does it say that you automatically become a full employee if your employment continues or was it just a contract for the probation period?

It may be worth seeking legal advice as the company may drop ultimatums.

TriciaDelicia

Did they say what would happen if you didn't sign

Phototoxin

I'd say no to them as you have finished the probation as determined in your contract and therefore are a full employee. you dont have to extend it unless your original contract says so so stick by your guns. probably it is just an excuse to throw people out if they are loosing money,

cronos

No way would I sign it. Their is no other reason than for it to make it easier to fire ya. Why in gods name would you sign that. I think its mental they asked. Espically once the probatin period had already elapsed.

If ya have a union I would go to them. If you dont then you should talk to anyone who was asked to do this and say no as a group.

stagolee

Hi Folks,
Thanks for all the replies I wasn't expecting anyone to post on this till tomorrow.

Seank_K, the contract says that I am a permanent employee, they tried to give me one originally that said I was temporary but I complained as they advertised the position as permanent and confirmed that it was a permanent in the interview so they said it was a clerical error and then gave me another contract.

TriciaDelicia, they haven't said what the penalty for not signing is yet, I plan to ask tomorrow, but like Phototoxin and Cronos said I suspect the penalty for signing will be that I will be let go within 5 months with no explanation.

We are of course all being assured by management that at the end of the 5 months all going well we will be taken off probation and put back to full employee status but like you guys said I cant see any reason for them to do this other than to save themselves a little hassle and paperwork when they want to lay people off :mad:.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

I'm no expert (so don't take any of this seriously) but if the contract says you're permanent then you're permanent. If they try and get you back on probation, you might be able to have them for unfair dismissal/breach of contract or whatever.

In saying that, if they can't afford to pay you and go bust, you're out of a job with no comeback.

axer

Obviously those that do sign the document will be first gone if there are layoffs since they would be the easiest to get rid of. Go get legal advice.

Bluetonic

axer wrote: »

Obviously those that do sign the document will be first gone if there are layoffs since they would be the easiest to get rid of.

There is nothing obvious about that, it's just as easy to serve people with their notice and have only staff employee who can be dropped at shorter notice.

axer

Bluetonic wrote: »

There is nothing obvious about that, it's just as easy to serve people with their notice and have only staff employee who can be dropped at shorter notice.

A permanent worker could not be replaced instantly if made redundant whereas a worker on probation does not need to be made redundant. I think it is easier and less hassle.

what2do

I've heard of this recently and the aim of it is that you can be let go without all the redundancy entitlements - they are waiting to see if things improve/disimprove and you are unfortunately in the last in first out bracket.
It depends on your co however there are costs involved with making employees permanent - pension contributions etc and they are trying to avoid these costs

Extending probation is something that has always been allowed cos sometimes it takes longer than the initial 6 mths to assess a workers ability. However I would have thought that it needs to be advised why they were extending your probation.

stagolee

what2do wrote: »

I've heard of this recently and the aim of it is that you can be let go without all the redundancy entitlements - they are waiting to see if things improve/disimprove and you are unfortunately in the last in first out bracket.
It depends on your co however there are costs involved with making employees permanent - pension contributions etc and they are trying to avoid these costs

Extending probation is something that has always been allowed cos sometimes it takes longer than the initial 6 mths to assess a workers ability. However I would have thought that it needs to be advised why they were extending your probation.

I see what you mean and they have said in writing to me that it is because of the current economic climate, but as far as i can tell i was out of my probation period by more than a month and they are putting me back on probation which seems a bit crappy.

Eoin

I only asked a solicitor friend about this quite recently actually. If you're not there a year, it does not make a massive difference either way as the unfair dismissals act only applies to people there over a year. Wrongful dismissal is applicable within the year, but could be hard to prove.

Legal advice is the definitely the way to go though - you never know what nuances of the law they have gotten wrong.

Mr Clonfadda

I had in my contract for my last job "The period of probation can be extended to a period totalling 12 months. The problem is, I believe, that you have to be working for a place for 12 months prior to being protected by the Unfair dismissals legislation.

mountainyman

You are probationary for the first year in Ireland anyway. It takes a year to accumulate any rights.

AARRRGH

stagolee wrote: »

They want me to sign a piece of paper by friday agreeing to this "extension" and they have told me they are in no way unhappy with my work but it is being done with all recent employees due to economic conditions.

This can only mean they want to be able to get rid of you easily. As they say themselves, they have no issue with your work.

It's a very unfair and awkward situation for you. I think the best move would be to get everyone in the group to agree not to sign the document. If you're the only one who's unwilling, try to resist the pressure to sign. Harder said than done though, I know!

Let us know how you get on.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

AARRRGH wrote: »

It's a very unfair and awkward situation for you. I think the best move would be to get everyone in the group to agree not to sign the document. If you're the only one who's unwilling, try to resist the pressure to sign. Harder said than done though, I know!

This would be ideal provided you can trust your colleagues not to betray the rest of ye.

seamus

Ideally, you can get your colleagues onboard, but there's no need really. As said already, probationary period or not, they can let you go. The probationary period just allows them to let you go straight away, whereas without it you're entitled to a weeks notice.

Since your contract stated a six-month period and you're now there 7 months, then it is implied that your probationary period is over and you are now a full employee. The company do not need to give you a letter stating that it's over. Every standard contract says that if your employer does not let you go within the probationary period, or does not extend the period (before it ends), then it's assumed you are clear.
Asking you to re-enter a probationary period without a change in circumstances (promotion/demotion) is legally iffy at best.

You are not required to sign a new contract and the company cannot penalise you for refusing to do so.

AARRRGH

seamus wrote: »

The probationary period just allows them to let you go straight away, whereas without it you're entitled to a weeks notice.

Or longer, if his contract states (for example) he must give one months notice, right?

information

seamus wrote: »

The probationary period just allows them to let you go straight away, whereas without it you're entitled to a weeks notice.

if you worked there for more than 13 weeks you are entitled to one weeks notice.
You contract might given you even more notice

Eoin

The notice period in the contract will take precendence once it is not less than the legal minimum.

seamus

Most contracts I've seen don't require the company to give more than the legal minimum, only the employee. Though it's a definite possibility.

Eoin

Really? All of my contracts have been the same for both parties.

seamus

Are you sure?
But yes, really.

It doesn't bother me at all, my rationale being that the only reason you'll be let go is if you're ridiculously bad at your job, or the economy takes a nosedive. Either way, one week or one month's notice doesn't make a huge difference.

Eoin

Absolutely sure, but thankfully it's only ever been used from my end. The difference between a week and a month can be massive. It could well be the difference of another month's mortgage payment or not.