Is it me or what??

beks101

Hi all,

First off, apologies for any typos / rantish ramblings, it's been a long night and I'm not entirely sober if the truth is told...
I don't exactly know how to articulate my problem, except to say that I have been single since forever and I don't know how to change my situation. It's at the point that I think my singledom is a mindset that may never change, but at the same time I'm getting annoyed with my seemingly inability to attract men.
A bit of background - I am 23, working professional, and reasonably attractive from what I am told. In the general scheme of things I have noticed that I do get attention from men - the usual double glances walking down the street, checked out in bars, etc - and like any girl I am always on the look out - but nothing ever amounts to anything. The only relationships I have had to-date has been with foreign men, (and even at that we're talking frivolous and far from meaningful) when I have been abroad, and to be perfectly honest, this has led to me developing a certain attitude when it comes to Irish men.
They 'don't hit on women unless drunk/out on the tear' tends to be my reasoning, or else I become introspective and use my own insecurities to justify my eternal singledom - 'it's because I have a guard up / it's because I'm not skinny enough (not overweight either, just a girl!!) it's because I don't flirt enough / am too independent' etc and such tripe...
The reality is, I am at my wit's end and don't know what to do / how to change the situation.
Truthfully, I have never / probably will never hit on a guy (am of the old fashioned view that it is his job, and if it doesn't happen, he's clearly not interested) and even have trouble expressing interest if someone I like crosses my path. It could be some deep-seated issue of feeling vulnerable and open to rejection, or it might just be habit at this stage, I don't know, but either way - I crave affection, intimacy and a meaningful relationship and just don't know how to fulfill my needs.
What's worse is I'm beginning to notice that my self esteem seems to be tied up in how attractive I am to the opposite sex - tonight, for example, I went out and got a little drunk, danced the night away, and didn't get mawled and groped (in other words - 'hit on') as much as usual, and it left me feeling unattractive and worthless. It's funny because when the seediness and sleaze does happen on nights out I hate it and am extremely hostile towards the guys involved, so I don't know how in the hell its absence could affect my self esteem in such a way. Aside from this, I would see myself as being a confident person with a strong sense of who I am and what I want.
I just can't seem to sort out this relationship business. I know that I am used to my independence, and enjoy doing my own thing, not being answerable to anyone, but I am beginning to worry that I like it too much and it is preventing me from opening up to someone in a meaningful way.
I know the usual advice seems to be join a club, etc, but I work 70 odd hours a week so the only real opportunity I would have is at work or in the gym (and I work my ass off when I'm in there and don't exactly want the distraction)
I have few male friends, no brothers, went to all-girls school and could be described as a girl's girl, so have often thought that this might be playing a part?
Anyone in the same situation, or has found a way out, met someone significant while seemingly stuck in a romantic rut?

I could really use your insight.

Thanks for reading, I'm not sure if any of this made sense!!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

If you want a relationship without being hit upon, stop meeting guys in bars and clubs, and try other avenues.

And try expressing an interest in he ones you do like. Even just with body language. Otherwise, we're sitting in the corner thinking much the same thing you are: she doesn't like me, not worth the hassle.

LegacyUser

beks101 wrote: »

I have been single since forever and I don't know how to change my situation...when the seediness and sleaze does happen on nights out I hate it and am extremely hostile towards the guys involved

It's a catch 22 situation. Men need to get hammered in order to work up the courage to chat to a girl who may, such as in your case, act extremely hostile towards them. Yet, for all they know, you may still reserve the right to be hostile towards them when they're sober. Being publicly rejected and humiliated is a lot easier with a skinful of pints.

To be honest, Irish women need to start chatting men up more. I know so many single women in their 30's who sit there bitching and moaning about 'Irish men' and not being able to meet someone. And what do they do about it? Absolutely nothing. They go to a pub and sit there waiting to be swept off their feet by Prince Charming while reserving the right to treat the men they don't fancy like absolute crap. Men are expected to do the chatting up in most countries but in most countries women are a lot more approachable/less hostile if they don't fancy you.

It's going to get a lot worse for single Irish women in future unless they become more approachable and stop taking lessons in social aggression and bitchyness from Sex and the City and reality TV.

Sprouts

Unregistered wrote: »

It's a catch 22 situation. Men need to get hammered in order to work up the courage to chat to a girl who may, such as in your case, act extremely hostile towards them. Yet, for all they know, you may still reserve the right to be hostile towards them when they're sober. Being publicly rejected and humiliated is a lot easier with a skinful of pints.

To be honest, Irish women need to start chatting men up more. I know so many single women in their 30's who sit there bitching and moaning about 'Irish men' and not being able to meet someone. And what do they do about it? Absolutely nothing. They go to a pub and sit there waiting to be swept off their feet by Prince Charming while reserving the right to treat the men they don't fancy like absolute crap. Men are expected to do the chatting up in most countries but in most countries women are a lot more approachable/less hostile if they don't fancy you.

It's going to get a lot worse for single Irish women in future unless they become more approachable and stop taking lessons in social aggression and bitchyness from Sex and the City and reality TV.

Wow, well said, nail on the head my friend. Irish women can be so difficult.

Alessandra

With all due respect OP, you cannot expect to go to a bar and meet a guy you click with and is potential boyfriend material. It happens, but very rarely. I used to be hung-up on the idea of being in a relationship as a means of almost justifying my worth as a person. Thankfully I have since grown-up and realised that it's ok to be single and you can be quite happily so:) Being disappointed that you are not getting attention on a particular night out as well smacks of insecurity to me. If you are not confident in yourself, this can come across to others as though you are shy or aloof and therefore unapproachable. Focusing your energy away from seeking a potential mate. Go out to enjoy yourself! You say you have male friends? Why not go out with them, am sure they would have friends as well? Going to house parties chatting to strangers and broadening your circle of friends is a great way to improve confidence I find. Maybe you might not find a boyfriend straight away but meeting more people will expose you to more opportunities..

LegacyUser

I've always found the problem in Ireland to be this:

Going up to talk to a random girl seems like a complete come-one rather than just a "hi, how are you?" It's seen as I've come over to "chat up" the girl rather than just have a chat to her. Girls can get very defensive and rejection comes quick. So instead of a conversation, it becomes a series of questions, a few yes no answers and then back to the drawing board..... easier to handle when a bit tipsy.

As another poster said, there can be a lot of hostility.

Then again, it depends on the pubs you are in. There's a big difference from being out in Kehoe's to being out in Coppers..... one's a place you have your pints and a chat and the others a place to score.

I'd love sometime to be sitting in the pub with a friend for two women to come up to us going "what's the craic lads? What's happening?" - as it's just a fun way to get on with people and that's what we guys are doing a lot of the time. If numbers are swapped at the end of the night then cool but if not, then at least we'd all had fun. It's not all about scoring and I think that's what some women/girls have to realise: we're not all out to sleep with you at the end of the night.

There's a weird sense of protectionism in Ireland where people are just wary of other people - and that goes for males talking to males as well:
"What does this person want from me? Why are they talking to me? I want to get back to the comfort zone of my friends". Maybe it's a confidence thing. Certainly I've seen it with groups of young guys who only seem to come alive when pissed.

But, it is certainly not our (men's) job to be doing (A) the chasing and (B) the chatting up.... that's where some women get it so very wrong.

Edgedinblue

ya need to realise you aint gonna find anyone if ya have a big "lets go find someone next time im out" head on ya, it'll get ya nowhere and clearly hasnt done thus far!
you should really try getting over the whole old fashioned thing, and jst get talkin to a guy, alot of guys live in hope that girls will talk to them instead of them being the first ones to do so. although meeting guys in bars and clubs aint exactly the best spot to find someone lookin for relationship, so maybe try somewhere else. sports, take a class, even friends friends!

ya jst need to chill out, forget about being single and enjoy it, and talk to some guys!

Matt3

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

And try expressing an interest in he ones you do like. Even just with body language. Otherwise, we're sitting in the corner thinking much the same thing you are: she doesn't like me, not worth the hassle.

I'd agree with that.

Girls have to give us at least an indication that they're willing to at least talk to us, as you say, even with their body language. It's happened to me before, in that, you see a girl that you like and you're wondering to yourself 'Will i try to strike up a conversation with her?'

I don't think some girls realise how intimidating it can be for a guy to make the first move. Actually, some blokes can find approaching a girl/ group of girls together quite daunting, as a lot of Irish girls do expect the guy to make the first move.

I mean, i'm single myself, i'm in my mid-30's, and i don't know how many blokes agree with me here, but if i'm going out on a Saturday night, i will try and make an effort to talk to a girl and see what happens. Even if nothing comes of it, personally i'm happy that i made an effort in the first place.

Actually, here's an example of what i mean, i went out last Saturday night: a friend of mine from work was leaving to go away to America for five months, so about 50 or so people including his family, workmates and friends turned up to this party at a local pub.

I was talking to a female work-mate, and she told me that another female work-mate of mine was arriving with two of her female friends. Anyway, the three of them arrived, after half an hour or so and sat beside me and some of the lads from work, i had never met these two girls before in my life....

....anyway, things were kind of arkward in that my female work-mate had forgotten to introduce us to her friends, so i was sitting there trying to think of something to say to them! (i.e. a conversation starter).

We eventually moved to a 'reserved' area in the pub, and the three girls sat down beside me. After about five minutes, i decided to bite the bullet, so i introduced myself to one of the girls, i discovered that she was really friendly, in fact she struck me as being quite genuine, and i ended up talking to her for nearly an hour or so.

Later, the three girls decided to go on dancing and asked the rest of us did we want to go, we said we would follow them on. Anyway, a spanner was thrown in the works when my male work-mate who was going away wanted us to go back to his house for a few beers, so we had to go.

Here's the thing, i'm quite happy that i made a effort to talk to one of my female work-mates best friends, and as i say, i feel a lot happier if i've made an attempt to converse with a girl, even if nothing happens, it can help build up a blokes confidence levels.

Also, chances are my female work mate could bring her friends out with her again to another of our parties. So i've put myself in a position, in that i've met her previously, another good conversation starter.

Lads will make an effort.

Dave5

Matt3 wrote: »

I'd agree with that.

Girls have to give us at least an indication that they're willing to at least talk to us, as you say, even with their body language. It's happened to me before, in that, you see a girl that you like and you're wondering to yourself 'Will i try to strike up a conversation with her?'

I don't think some girls realise how intimidating it can be for a guy to make the first move. Actually, some blokes can find approaching a girl/ group of girls together quite daunting, as a lot of Irish girls do expect the guy to make the first move.

I mean, i'm single myself, i'm in my mid-30's, and i don't know how many blokes agree with me here, but if i'm going out on a Saturday night, i will try and make an effort to talk to a girl and see what happens. Even if nothing comes of it, personally i'm happy that i made an effort in the first place.

Actually, here's an example of what i mean, i went out last Saturday night: a friend of mine from work was leaving to go away to America for five months, so about 50 or so people including his family, workmates and friends turned up to this party at a local pub.

I was talking to a female work-mate, and she told me that another female work-mate of mine was arriving with two of her female friends. Anyway, the three of them arrived, after half an hour or so and sat beside me and some of the lads from work, i had never met these two girls before in my life....

....anyway, things were kind of arkward in that my female work-mate had forgotten to introduce us to her friends, so i was sitting there trying to think of something to say to them! (i.e. a conversation starter).

We eventually moved to a 'reserved' area in the pub, and the three girls sat down beside me. After about five minutes, i decided to bite the bullet, so i introduced myself to one of the girls, i discovered that she was really friendly, in fact she struck me as being quite genuine, and i ended up talking to her for nearly an hour or so.

Later, the three girls decided to go on dancing and asked the rest of us did we want to go, we said we would follow them on. Anyway, a spanner was thrown in the works when my male work-mate who was going away wanted us to go back to his house for a few beers, so we had to go.

Here's the thing, i'm quite happy that i made a effort to talk to one of my female work-mates best friends, and as i say, i feel a lot happier if i've made an attempt to converse with a girl, even if nothing happens, it can help build up a blokes confidence levels.

Also, chances are my female work mate could bring her friends out with her again to another of our parties. So i've put myself in a position, in that i've met her previously, another good conversation starter.

Lads will make an effort.

You talk a lot of sense there, mate. I agree with what you say.

farva

Hey beks,

Its really weird reading that, I could have basically written the exact same post, except for that bit about being reasonably attractive and looking for guy’s attention in clubs:D!!! Seriously though you’re not alone, I’m in the same position as you but I’m a guy.

I haven’t had a proper girlfriend in about 2 years, since then I’ve been out on a fair few dates and was “seeing” a couple of girls for not more than a few weeks but nothing serious ever came of any of that. I’m nearly 23, recently started in a job working in a very specialised area in a small office where most people are men and a fair bit older than me. I do about 50-60 hours/week Monday to Friday and go to the gym 3/4 times a week, I chat to loads of people in the gym but I can’t imagine trying to ask someone out in the gym! I might head out to a nightclub on a Saturday night with the lads but you can never really expect to meet someone there, you might get a random score but that’s about it, I think that anywhere is better than a nightclub for meeting people. I have a good few female friends so unless I end up with a friend of a friend, I don’t really see how I’ll end up meeting someone either!

To be brutally honest it sounds like you don’t come across as very approachable for guys, you’re saying how you’re hostile towards guys “hitting on” you in clubs (I know that you said their mauling you, but still!) and you say how you wouldn’t want the distraction of a guy trying to strike up a conversation in the gym. And I don’t think that you should be so set on not making the first move with guys, I mean lads do not take hints well and just because a guy doesn’t approach you does not mean that he isn’t interested. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that!

b3t4

Think of things this way, do you want to get into a serious relationship now that you could potentially have for the rest of your life. Are you ready for that? Is that something that you want? 23 is young and the rest of your life is a long time.

Before I met my boyfriend I was 3yrs single. Was being single great all of the time? Nope. Being single sucks at times. There is an intimacy to relationships that it's hard to find outside of a relationship. Was it great the rest of the time? Yup.

When I met my boyfriend I knew exactly where I was at in my life and exactly what I wanted out of my life. That has been a great footing in our relationship and something I don't think I could of gained had I not been single for 3 yrs.

It's not you, it's everything combined. He'll walk into your life and you'll be wondering to yourself what you were worrying about before. It sucks waiting around for it to happen though so just get out there and have as much fun as possible. Somewhere along the line someone will want to share that fun with you.

A.

Seraphina

beks101 wrote: »

and like any girl I am always on the look out!

this stood out to me. i am a girl and i can emphatically challenge that statement. I am NEVER on the lookout, and things just happen for me. I'm 24 with three long term relationships behind me and a couple of short term ones.

i bet you smack of desperation. no offence, a lot of guys are the same, but some people are just needy/lonely/really want to be in a relationship, and you can smell it off them from a mile away.

you then get defensive when someone who isn't your ideal comes to chat to you or 'hit' on you. why not just chat to the drunk guys? it does you no harm, you could have a bit of banter, and you never know he might be lovely sober. he might have cute friends, you might just make a new mate.

fact is, things usually happen when you're NOT looking. why? because you're relaexed, acting normal, fun, having a good time without caring what the cute guy sitting next to you thinks of you.

Wagon

You may as well drop the notion that men will approach you if your that hostile. Playing "hard to get" is bull**** and performed by teenagers. You'll never get a good bloke with that attitude because they'll run a mile, and even the not so good ones like myself will leg it

Let's put things into perspective. I'm 22, I see you across the bar and I find you attractive and think, "alright, I'll have a chat. She might be sound." Now if I stall it over and say hello and I'm greeted with a character from Sex And The City who gives me the hairy eyeball I'll run. Not only because there's no point and I don't want to ruin your night, but also because I'd probably be scared of you! It's a terrifying sight to behold, what was once an attracive lady and a mysterious stanger turns into the spawn of Satan!

I don't lack confidance either and nor am i desperate. I don't get pissed and go "on the pull" with my mates, I go out to have the craic like a lot of blokes do and chat to randomers and if something sparks up with someone all the better! Ultimately, sitting in the corner looking around you waiting gives the impression of "Approach me if you dare", the good men out there will ignore you and the only ones with the balls are the drunken idiots who couldn't give a **** if they're humiliated because they're taking the piss anyway. Time to grow up I'm afraid.

LegacyUser

Seraphina wrote: »

this stood out to me. i am a girl and i can emphatically challenge that statement. I am NEVER on the lookout, and things just happen for me. I'm 24 with three long term relationships behind me and a couple of short term ones.

i bet you smack of desperation. no offence, a lot of guys are the same, but some people are just needy/lonely/really want to be in a relationship, and you can smell it off them from a mile away.


First off, thanks for all the replies, it's been eye opening.

And fair point, Seraphina - having read through my original post I can see how you would think I'm giving off some sort of desperate vibe. But I honestly don't think this is it. When I say, "on the lookout", I mean that I will notice if there is an attractive guy nearby. As I originally said, I never approach, I'm quite subtle even checking the guy out, and I rarely even strike up conversation. I don't know if this is shyness, or sheer habit, but from all the posts I am beginning to see that this is a big part of the problem.
I'm just not approachable, it would seem.
The difference between me and you, Seraphina, is that things just don't happen for me. The fact that I'm probably looking disinterested, or even giving out hostile vibes, is more than likely the main reason for this. In fact, (and I'm just being honest here so don't persecute!) looking at it objectively I would say this "hard to get" bullsh** is a big part of what I do, and it's why I'm forever single. If I like someone, I won't even let them see me looking at them.
I honestly don't know why I am like this, as I am an otherwise friendly, outgoing, chatty type of person.
Maybe, as Wagon suggested, it is just time to grow up.

beks101

Seraphina wrote: »

this stood out to me. i am a girl and i can emphatically challenge that statement. I am NEVER on the lookout, and things just happen for me. I'm 24 with three long term relationships behind me and a couple of short term ones.
i bet you smack of desperation. no offence, a lot of guys are the same, but some people are just needy/lonely/really want to be in a relationship, and you can smell it off them from a mile away.

First off, thanks for all the replies, it's been eye opening.
And fair point, Seraphina - having read through my original post I can see how you would think I'm giving off some sort of desperate vibe. But I honestly don't think this is it. When I say, "on the lookout", I mean that I will notice if there is an attractive guy nearby. As I originally said, I never approach, I'm quite subtle even checking the guy out, and I rarely even strike up conversation. I don't know if this is shyness, or sheer habit, but from all the posts I am beginning to see that this is a big part of the problem.
I'm just not approachable, it would seem.
The difference between me and you, Seraphina, is that things just don't happen for me. The fact that I'm probably looking disinterested, or even giving out hostile vibes, is more than likely the main reason for this. In fact, (and I'm just being honest here so don't persecute!) looking at it objectively I would say this "hard to get" bullsh** is a big part of what I do, and it's why I'm forever single. If I like someone, I won't even let them see me looking at them.
I honestly don't know why I am like this, as I am an otherwise friendly, outgoing, chatty type of person.
Maybe, as Wagon suggested, it is just time to grow up.

Mr. Incognito

Why dont you go to the next Boards beers- I met a girl from boards just this week for a drink ane we had a great night. People are pretty cool in the main and it's a good way to meet a varied spectrum of people.

LegacyUser

beks101 wrote:

In fact, (and I'm just being honest here so don't persecute!) looking at it objectively I would say this "hard to get" bullsh** is a big part of what I do, and it's why I'm forever single.

I do not understand why women feel the need to act 'hard to get'.

Why do you think that making the guy assume that you are not interested will make him try harder?

9 times out of 10, it will make him move onto to someone that will at least vaguely seem interested.

beks101

RossFixxxed

You say you never approach... That's like saying I can't get a job, but I've never applied for one. And there is a time to stop the 'hard to get thing' and that time is age 15.

eroo

Unregistered wrote: »

I'm quite subtle even checking the guy out,
If I like someone, I won't even let them see me looking at them.

There is one of the problems OP.

If you like a guy,let him see you looking at him. Don't leer or stare. Just look at him, if he looks back, look away again. Then almost immediately, look back. He'll probably still be looking at you, and you have eye contact. Look away again, then give a little smile. That way, he knows your interested, and you know he is interested. Then if he doesn't make a move, YOU should!

A girl doing that will always get my attention, or vice versa even!

The Mighty Ken

beks101 wrote: »

I have been single since forever and I don't know how to change my situation. It's at the point that I think my singledom is a mindset that may never change, but at the same time I'm getting annoyed with my seemingly inability to attract men...

It's funny because when the seediness and sleaze does happen on nights out I hate it and am extremely hostile towards the guys involved

Right. Let me get this straight - you're one of the many girls that is very nasty to guys that approach you if you don't fancy them and are waiting for someone that you do fancy to approach you (presumably you'll give him the time of day). Unfortunately that makes you a nasty person by proxy. Try just being nice to guys (whether you fancy them or not). Hostile women don't make good girlfriends.

beks101

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Right. Let me get this straight - you're one of the many girls that is very nasty to guys that approach you if you don't fancy them and are waiting for someone that you do fancy to approach you (presumably you'll give him the time of day). Unfortunately that makes you a nasty person by proxy. Try just being nice to guys (whether you fancy them or not). Hostile women don't make good girlfriends.

No. Where did I ever say I'm nasty if the face doesn't fit? I'm hostile if a pinch on the arse or a mauling on the dance floor is the method of approach. I have never, not once, to my memory, knocked someone back for just chatting me up. Regardless of whether or not I am attracted to him. But it doesn't seem to happen. (And no, I don't look like Shrek) Therein lies the problem.

CALI

I could have written the OP's post about myself, word for word only I'm a bit older and wish I had realised all this then and not now. People are being kinda harsh about the playing hard to get thing-basically I don't have the confidence in myself to believe a guy might be interested in me. Therefore if he makes an effort to come over without me giving him the eye I think he is seriously interested and not just because I was one of the only ones to respond to his eye contact (if that makes sense!). I NEVER fancy the guys who do come over to chat but I don't have the guts to flirt with the guys I do fancy cos I am convinced they are too good looking for me and would not be interested. I have met people I would love to have gotten together with but for differnet reasons it just doesn't happen!
I think it's great people offering advice on giving off signals to guys that you are interested but I think the problem for me and I am thinking the OP's is that I don't have the confidence to follow through. I realise this post reeks of low self esteem so I guess I am somehow going to have to do something about that!