Just some healthy feedback...

MagicMarker

This thread was just closed over in Celeb & Showbiz and to be honest, the new charter boggles my mind!!!

If you look at the average thread on the forum, they are all started with some kind of news story and not much else, that doesn't seem to hinder the thread from growing into some kind of discussion... Telling people that they now have to write a minimum amount and offer an opinion just seems stupid, there's really no need for it.

This particular thread is posted because it concerns a ''celeb'' and no doubt a thread with that kind of backstory is bound to grow, why should the OP add anything more to it? Why introduce a prerequisite for starting a thread in such a forum? It's not exactly humanities.

Steve

MagicMarker wrote: »

Telling people that they now have to write a minimum amount and offer an opinion just seems stupid, there's really no need for it.

:eek:
OMG like. Is boards like a discussion like forum now where you have to give your opinion like on things and stuff.
That's so like not cool and stuff like...

MagicMarker

SteveC wrote: »

:eek:
OMG like. Is boards like a discussion like forum now where you have to give your opinion like on things and stuff.
That's so like not cool and stuff like...

Yes, it's a discussion forum, nothing's going to be discussed if the thread is closed though. It's just a natural progression. I'd say the majority of threads on boards are started in a similar way.

Bob the Builder

I say blame black people or something.... it sounds cooler, and gains publicity.

Steve

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yes, it's a discussion forum, nothing's going to be discussed if the thread is closed though. It's just a natural progression. I'd say the majority of threads on boards are started in a similar way.

So what's the problem, the instructions are clear - no one liners.

takola

Actually agree with MagicMarker on this one. The new charter seems a bit overkill. And while I'd understand locking threads about "celebs" that aren't very well known Jennifer Hudson is fairly well known and that newsfeed alone would have created a discussion. It's a tragic story, not some dopey snippet about some unknown woman who's decided she'd like to spend another $20,000 on plastic surgery. I don't think it needed any philsophical opening to encourage discussion. It would have done so on its own.

The mods are trying to encourage discussion within the forum which is a good thing. But if they go about locking valid threads because the OP didn't use the proper opening questions to encourage discussion (Honestly don't think they were necessary in this case) in the first post they may end up with people not posting there at all for fear of their thread being locked.

Either way the OP has started another thread with all the necessary requirements for a thread in the celeb/showbiz forum now so you can discuss it there.

Karoma

I would say it's working.
Example: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055405715

Zaph

takola wrote: »

Jennifer Hudson is fairly well known

I had to Google her to find out who she was. Wouldn't exactly consider her A-list.

The problem with that forum is that it was too easy to come in, post a news story and maybe a one-liner and leave again. Huge numbers of threads were dying within a few posts because there wasn't an actual point for discussion offered. If you want to read news there are plenty of sites out there to do so on, but Boards is not a news site, it's a discussion site, and as such the new rules are designed to promote discussion. Still won't get me using that forum though.

takola

Karoma wrote: »

I would say it's working.
Example: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055405715

That's not what I'd call working tbh. That's 1 serious reply, 2 taking the piss out of the new charter and 1 questioning how the thread got reopened. Hardly a success.

I don't disagree with it completely. I just think locking valid threads for the fact that the OP didn't ask the proper questions when it clearly wasn't necessary is overkill.

@Zaph: Fair point. Could I maybe say that Jennifer Hudson would be fairly well known to most of the celeb/showbiz forum regulars? She did have a part in Sex and the City and Dreamgirls. Both movies would be fairly popular with the wimmin. And I'm near sure I read in the link that she'd been nominated/won an oscar. I'd consider that well known!

I do agree with the rest of what you've said. I don't think it's good for people to post a paragraph and a one liner. Yes, it is a discussion forum. But I think that thread would have been discussed (properly rather than the piss take that is going on now) had it been left open.

Orion

takola wrote: »

Jennifer Hudson is fairly well known

who the fuck is Jennifer Hudson?

Orion

Oh OH OH - pick me pick me - I've healthy feedback ...

Close the Celebs and Showbiz forum!

Top 8 posts as of now....

Jennifer Hudson
Kerry Katona
Madonna (ok I'll grant that one)
Lucy Kennedy
Jade Goody
Gerry Ryan (no I won't grant that one)
Billie Piper

Where are the celebrities?

6th

MagicMarker wrote: »

I'd say the majority of threads on boards are started in a similar way.

Ok well then find me 20 threads in October started in this fashion in forums out Celebs & Attention Whores.

Sabre0001

Macros42 wrote: »

Where are the celebrities?

Unfortunately doesn't take much to become a celebrity. Just look at any "Celebrity" TV show or mag about celebrities...D-Z list trying to boost a career so need any exposure possible (therefore allowing for the most news / discussion).

Faith

The Celeb & Showbiz forum has been causing trouble for a little while because of people starting threads with a short quote about nobody very famous, with no source and no explanation as to why the poster thought it was important enough to post. The replies were generally poor quality, largely consisting of having a go at the OP for posting such nonsense. Stargal, Watna and I have discussed it at length, and have asked such OPs (via PM, usually) time and time again to bulk out their first post. We found that it was in actual fact driving away good contributors to the forum who didn't want to read a newsfeed. Posters were getting very fed up of these types of topics, and were asking themselves on thread for sources and an original opinion.

In an effort to reduce this type of "story" being posted, and to prevent the forum from turning into a newsfeed, we amended the charter. We discussed it at length among ourselves, and asked for advice from the rest of the moderators. What we put in the charter is the result of that.

Now, with regards to the thread you posted about, MagicMarker, that was a valid enough topic to provoke discussion, but we can't have one rule for one poster and another for the rest. While it may look like overkill to the rest of you who are unaware of the history, watna did completely the right thing by closing the thread. If she hadn't, the next time a one-line story like "this z-lister just hired a new nanny" was posted, we wouldn't have much to stand on if we locked it. It would look like favouritism. And in fact, it worked because the poster started a new thread with her opinion on the matter.

It may take a while for the regulars of the forum to get used to this, but we feel that it's best for the forum in the long-run.

TequilaMockingBird

Over moderation imo.

Galvasean

Oh, I was about to wade in about the ignorance of some people. Then i realized it wasn't Kate Hudson...

Carry on..

KnifeWRENCH

Macros42 wrote: »

Oh OH OH - pick me pick me - I've healthy feedback ...

Close the Celebs and Showbiz forum!

Top 8 posts as of now....

Jennifer Hudson
Kerry Katona
Madonna (ok I'll grant that one)
Lucy Kennedy
Jade Goody
Gerry Ryan (no I won't grant that one)
Billie Piper

Where are the celebrities?

"Celebrity" is a word used so much these days, it's not exactly a challenge to become one. Whether or not you like Jade Goody or Kerry Katona, they certainly get mentioned a lot in the papers, do a lot of TV and are easily recognisable. So if they're not really "celebrated" they are "celebrities" in the sense that they're famous
Jennifer Hudson was a contestant on American Idol and is an Oscar winning actress - she is most definitely a celebrated celebrity.

Anyway on topic: I have seen these annoying "news feeds" in a lot of forums, not just Celebrity&Showbiz (one poster in particular does this nearly every time she posts) So even though it seems like tough modding, I think overall it's probably necessary.

Of course, I never go into C&S because I'm a MAN. Who visits BGRH and the Sport forums (*cough)

Zaph

sueme wrote: »

Over moderation imo.

You did read Faith's post immediately before your's, didn't you? :rolleyes:

WindSock

Macros42 wrote: »

Jennifer Hudson
Kerry Katona
Madonna (ok I'll grant that one)
Lucy Kennedy
Jade Goody
Gerry Ryan (no I won't grant that one)
Billie Piper

Where are the celebrities?

A celebrity is someone whom you know from the media and not in real life. I aassume you don't know any of those in real life and know them only from the telly, therefore they are celebrities. (Except Madonna, she's famous)

TequilaMockingBird

Sister Zaphora wrote: »

You did read Faith's post immediately before your's, didn't you? :rolleyes:

Yes I did thanks.

:rolleyes: right back at 'cha...

callaway92

Jennifer Hudson won an Oscar..how is she not a celebrity

aidan_walsh

callaway92 wrote: »

Jennifer Hudson won an Oscar..how is she not a celebrity

So did Gordon Hollingshead, whats your point?

KnifeWRENCH

Ah, the great Gordon Hollingshead - he'd be the first guest I'd invite to my dream dinner party!

Stargal

I appreciate that for people who don't read the forum regularly, the change to the charter may have seemed excessive. Believe me, it wasn't something we did lightly.

The past month has been pretty crap for the forum. These dodgy threads with their copy-and-paste articles and brain-meltingly dull topics have been going on for some time but lately they've really taken over. As one mod (Karoma, I think) so eloquently described it, the place had become more of a constant news feed than an actual discussion forum.

It was killing the forum, to be honest. Up until these jaw-clenchingly dumb threads started, the forum was working really well. There were lots of contributors, lively discussions and a good flow of topics (seriously MagicMarker, it doesn't have to be Humanities to provoke a good debate ) But once the threads began reaching spam-like proportions, there was simply nothing for people to engage with.

We made the discussion to amend the charter after literally weeks of discussion. Watna, Faith and me spent ages discussing it between ourselves by PM before throwing it open for suggestions in the Mods forum. Asking for a minimum standard when starting a thread was the single best suggestion we heard.

We're not trying to drive people away. On the contrary. This way of dealing with it has meant that no-one has been infracted or banned, but the quality of threads in the forum has immediately improved. (No joke. The forum is a different place to how it was a week ago, which is no bad thing!).

If anyone has other suggestions for what to do then we're genuinely open to hearing them. It's good to get some constructive feedback. For what it's worth, the posters in the forum seem pretty happy with it; there had been complaints about it, plus when we said we were making the changes we got a fair few thanks from posters.

So um, I think that's it. Faith explained it really well; I guess I just wanted to give a bit of background to how the forum has been working and why this change was needed.

Overheal

sueme wrote: »

Over moderation imo.

I think the world is ready for an Overmod

watna

I thought I better respond seeming as I locked the thread. Stargal and Faith have said everything I would have said - about us discussing this for weeks and then asking other mods for their opinion. We had a fair few complaints from posters about the number of threads started with a story and a one line comment and it was becoming quite detrimental to the forum. As Faith said, I locked the thread as it can't be one rule for one poster and a different rule for another and I envisaged some complaints in the future if we enforced the new charter unfairly. For all those posters above asking is Jennifer Hudson famous enough, that was nothing to do with me locking it, it was because it was a news story with a two word comment. I think it's great that eskimo started another thread which was more substantial and I'm very grateful to him/her for that.

As stargal said, we are open to suggetions on what else we could do about the issue - bearing in mind that we want to keep the forum a discussion forum and not a news feed. As I said above we discussed it at length first (for the past 2 or 3 months or so, I'd say) and started to do something to combat it only when posters who use the celeb and showbiz forum complained.

Suggestions and of course, healthy feedback are welcomed.

WindSock

Heh This whole thing reminds me of times past in school when you were sent to give a message to a teacher in another class and didn't knock, and the teacher would make you go back outside the door, close it again and do it properly.

Anyway, that aside, I agree with the whole posting a thread with just a link. A bit moronic and vapid. Whats the point?

Handsome Bob

Macros42 wrote: »

who the fuck is Jennifer Hudson?

Former American Idol contestant, and has won an Oscar for her role in 'Dreamgirls'(co-starring Beyonce Knowles). If one followed the entertainment industry I'm fairly sure they'd be aware of who she is.

In regards to the actual issue, I'm backing the mods of the Celeb forum. I would have interest in contributing to that board, but too many of the opening posts are not fleshed out enough. It's a discussion board, not a 'breaking news' website.

Sully

I can see why people on both ends are frustrated. On one hand, people cant get over that posters are being told they must actually post something when linking to a news report and on the other you have the users of the forum who cant get over why people are posting, constantly, news reports and not saying anything.

People have to remember Boards.ie is a discussion forum. Its not a news feed. The idea of the site are people talk about a wide range of topics that interest them. What was happening on this forum was people were posting quotes from news articles or links without actually discussing it. Its a blasted discussion forum, not an RSS Feed. If your going to post, contribute! It shouldnt even have to be added to the forum charter - it should be common sense.

I can see what made the mods add it to the charter, for clarification purposes I suppose, and fully support the decission to enforce it. Its a discussion forum folks.

Stargal

Sully wrote: »

If your going to post, contribute! It shouldn't even have to be added to the forum charter - it should be common sense.

That's exactly it Sully, spot on.

foxy06

Sister Zaphora wrote: »

I had to Google her to find out who she was. Wouldn't exactly consider her A-list.

The problem with that forum is that it was too easy to come in, post a news story and maybe a one-liner and leave again. Huge numbers of threads were dying within a few posts because there wasn't an actual point for discussion offered. If you want to read news there are plenty of sites out there to do so on, but Boards is not a news site, it's a discussion site, and as such the new rules are designed to promote discussion. Still won't get me using that forum though.

I don't know the ins and outs of electronics....so I don't go near that forum. I know who Jennifer Hudson is and so do a lot of people. It is not a celebrity forum, it's a celebrity and showbiz forum. She was in the Sex and the city movie, American Idol, won an oscar (over Beyonce might I ad) and she has a song in the charts at the moment. I don't know why people have to validate who is and who isn't a celebrity. People who like different types of music and film will think of different people as celebrity.


Btw I am not moaning about the modding just the fact that people keep popping into this forum to say "he/she is not a celebrity!"

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

^^^^ what foxy06 said

Bob the Builder

Roundtower2 wrote: »

^^^^ what foxy06 said

he/she is not a celebrity!

MagicMarker

...how come this thread wasn't closed? It was opened with a quote and a couple of lines from the OP.

Handsome Bob

MagicMarker wrote: »

...how come this thread wasn't closed? It was opened with a quote and a couple of lines from the OP.

I would say by looking at the structure of the post, i.e. no quote tags used, it just must slipped under the radar of the mods. It's just a big block of text with no clear part where the quote ends and where the OP's opinion starts.

Latchy

I first heard of and saw Jennifer Hudson in 'Dreamgirls ' about year and a half ago .Not as if she hasnt being around

Mr. Presentable

Macros42 wrote: »

who the fuck is Jennifer Hudson?

More to the point, why is Jennifer Hudson?

Faith

MagicMarker wrote: »

...how come this thread wasn't closed? It was opened with a quote and a couple of lines from the OP.

Can we expect you to update this thread every time we don't get to something fast enough? I missed that thread myself, watna is on a completely different time zone and probably hasn't seen it yet and Stargal is AFK. Please forgive us for not being omnipresent :rolleyes:.

Edit: I've locked it now, in accordance with the updated charter and MagicMarker's eagle eye, but I've no doubt someone will be along shortly to criticise that decision too.

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

Sherifu

eVeNtInE wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's celeb & showbiz, there'll never be anything worthwhile in there. Yay for quality \o/